(06-11-2019, 01:09 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I've never been a fan of PFF and have stated that numerous times. How do nerds in a room, far away, know exactly what every players responsibility is on any given play?

When Cris Collinsworth took over they hired alot of former players and coaches. 

I'm not the biggest fan of the PFF grades because they dont explain how they come up with the numbers like they used too but they do a great job with analytics and in depth stats.

(06-11-2019, 01:16 PM)Synric Wrote: When Cris Collinsworth took over they hired alot of former players and coaches. 

I'm not the biggest fan of the PFF grades because they dont explain how they come up with the numbers like they used too but they do a great job with analytics and in depth stats.

It's definitely a large operation...and what they do is very complex. There is a lot of action going on for every play and a lot of things to keep track of.

(06-11-2019, 01:16 PM)Synric Wrote: When Cris Collinsworth took over they hired alot of former players and coaches. 

I'm not the biggest fan of the PFF grades because they dont explain how they come up with the numbers like they used too but they do a great job with analytics and in depth stats.

I suppose what I'm saying is, not all jet sweeps are run the same way. Meaning I would think that unless you have the teams playbook beside you, how would you know a tackle was suppose to kick out or a guard pull or whatever. 

(06-11-2019, 01:06 PM)sandwedge Wrote: If I remember correctly, during the combine, ZT said they watched the tape on Hart and about 1/3 of Harts penalties wasn't actually on Hart. Because he plays on the end of the line, his number was called. I'm not defending Hart here, but I can see ZT's reasoning, as we've all seen an inside guy twitches and everybody jumps and one of the tackles is credited with the penalty.

Could be, but it wasn't like Hart was good outside of penalties. He got flat out beat many times.

(06-11-2019, 01:09 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I've never been a fan of PFF and have stated that numerous times. How do nerds in a room, far away, know exactly what every players responsibility is on any given play?

Because nerds are smarter than most and can watch video to determine?

(06-11-2019, 01:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Because nerds are smarter than most and can watch video to determine?

Actually even Mike Zimmer stated the same thing every time PFF graded Peko poorly. Zimmer asked how PFF knew what he was asking Peko to do on each play.

(06-11-2019, 10:05 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Some coaches are better at evaluating than others, and some coaches seem worse than PFF.
If this staff can turn Bobby Hart into a solid player, great, but I definitely have my doubts given previous history.

What history is it that you have in regard to this coaching staff?

(06-11-2019, 10:30 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think with Tackles that coaching can only go so far. The DE's and LB's are freak athletes that are rushing. You can do so much with technique, but raw physical ability plays into it too.

I'm just not sure that having a good attitude is going to be enough for Hart to become above average.

But, they had a chance to go Glenn and Williams at Tackle and chose to move Glenn to Guard...so they must like Hart.

LT and LG are the positions that create the triangle in the blind side.

So, if you put a rookie in either one of those spots, it makes sense to put your best pass blocker next to him.

I would be surprised if Jonah is thrown into LT on opening day. But if that happens, then Glenn would get LG and be responsible for both gaps.

RT and more importantly RG, would have to get figured out quickly.

I would rather have Jonah at RT and Hart or Jordan at RG.

Hey, guess what! Rod Taylor was waived.. Anyone remember back when that happened?  Kind of tough to notice it after the first two or three posts in this thread.. I had kind of hoped he would develop, but his injury last year kind of washed him out with this new staff. He'll probably get picked up by Pittsburg and go on to a HOF career now. Lucky guy, eh? 

(06-11-2019, 08:22 PM)OSUfan Wrote: What history is it that you have in regard to this coaching staff?

Not history with the staff, talking about Bobby Hart. Last season wasn't the only one he wasn't good.

(06-12-2019, 12:09 AM)XsandOs Wrote: LT and LG are the positions that create the triangle in the blind side.

So, if you put a rookie in either one of those spots, it makes sense to put your best pass blocker next to him.

I would be surprised if Jonah is thrown into LT on opening day. But if that happens, then Glenn would get LG and be responsible for both gaps.

RT and more importantly RG, would have to get figured out quickly.

I would rather have Jonah at RT and Hart or Jordan at RG.

Miller was signed to be RG

(06-11-2019, 08:19 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Actually even Mike Zimmer stated the same thing every time PFF graded Peko poorly. Zimmer asked how PFF knew what he was asking Peko to do on each play.

That's a valid point that they may not always be 100% accurate in what an assignment is on a given play but I think PFF most often reflects what we see from game to game too, which is poor performance. It doesn't take a (former) football player to be able to determine if another football player did well or not.
For example, I think PFF rating Bobby Hart as 56.2 and the 69th best OT last year falls in line with the fans' observations that he played very poorly.

(06-12-2019, 01:03 PM)ochocincos Wrote: That's a valid point that they may not always be 100% accurate in what an assignment is on a given play but I think PFF most often reflects what we see from game to game too, which is poor performance. It doesn't take a (former) football player to be able to determine if another football player did well or not.
For example, I think PFF rating Bobby Hart as 56.2 and the 69th best OT last year falls in line with the fans' observations that he played very poorly.

DT's and RB's seem to get scored weird. Other positions seem fairly accurate.

Like Mixon doesn't grade out very high. And we have DT's that I'd consider average that score in the 70's.

(06-12-2019, 01:24 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: DT's and RB's seem to get scored weird. Other positions seem fairly accurate.

Like Mixon doesn't grade out very high. And we have DT's that I'd consider average that score in the 70's.

PFF tries to address their grading here - https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/so-how-do-we-come-up-with-these-grades-anyway

And I know the DT you are referring to is Andrew Billings. PFF actually selected Billings as their most improved player on the team last year.

Quote:ANDREW BILLINGS, INTERIOR DEFENDER

In Billings’ first year of NFL action, it was clear he wasn’t ready for the speed of the game. This past season, he looked more like the player we saw at Baylor. He racked up 22 run stops compared to only seven in 2017.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-each-nfl-teams-most-improved-player

(06-12-2019, 02:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: PFF tries to address their grading here - https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/so-how-do-we-come-up-with-these-grades-anyway

And I know the DT you are referring to is Andrew Billings. PFF actually selected Billings as their most improved player on the team last year.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-each-nfl-teams-most-improved-player

Billings is part of it, but look at the other DT's that played for us besides Atkins. They all rated somewhere around low 70's as did Billings.

They couldn't all be that interchangeable I'd think?

(06-14-2019, 01:49 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Billings is part of it, but look at the other DT's that played for us besides Atkins. They all rated somewhere around low 70's as did Billings.

They couldn't all be that interchangeable I'd think?

Billings wasn't in the 70's the year prior, so he definitely improved. And the other DTs were Glasgow and Peko. Both were solid given they were 2-down players. So yes, I think given the Bengals don't have another true 3-down DT, I think those that are there have all performed similarly and do what is expected of them.

What other DTs are you talking about besides Billings, Glasgow, and Peko?

I've always hated those "most improved player" designations. They always just feel like a kiss of death to me.. I could be wrong, but really, when have I ever been wrong before? Never, you might say and you would be wrong, but not me.. I am often wrong even when I'm right.