(06-27-2019, 05:13 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The team could have done better in FA by going for different players within the same cost range (somewhat).
For example:
Daryl Williams instead of Bobby Hart
Jordan Hicks instead of Preston Brown

It's the whole familiarity vs risk thing. Hart and/or Brown could be better this year than Williams and Hicks respectively but bringing back the same guys doesn't invoke optimism or hope leading into the season.

FA....  they free agent has to agree to play here. as well...  Bengals usually have to overpay to bring in Free Agents.

(06-27-2019, 05:16 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: FA....  they free agent has to agree to play here. as well...  Bengals usually have to overpay to bring in Free Agents.

Are you saying it's a tough sell when they ask Free Agents if they want to live in Cincinnati half a year? 

(06-27-2019, 05:16 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: FA....  they free agent has to agree to play here. as well...  Bengals usually have to overpay to bring in Free Agents.

Yes, I fully understand that. 
Hicks is from Cincinnati so there is an assumption he would be interested to play for his hometown team.
Williams re-signed with Carolina, which isn't really a bigger or more appealing market than Cincinnati IMO.

And if the Bengals have to overpay some, so be it. They still have nearly $20 mill in cap space. I get that they want to use a good amount of that for extensions, but it's not required to use money from the current year to extend a player. The Bengals could just take more of a cap hit in the future years instead.

The way they reserve money for extensions limits the amount they can/will offer to current FAs and therefore results in lackluster FA participation.

(06-27-2019, 05:29 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Yes, I fully understand that. 
Hicks is from Cincinnati so there is an assumption he would be interested to play for his hometown team.
Williams re-signed with Carolina, which isn't really a bigger or more appealing market than Cincinnati IMO.

And if the Bengals have to overpay some, so be it. They still have nearly $20 mill in cap space. I get that they want to use a good amount of that for extensions, but it's not required to use money from the current year to extend a player. The Bengals could just take more of a cap hit in the future years instead.

The way they reserve money for extensions limits the amount they can/will offer to current FAs and therefore results in lackluster FA participation.

It's not required but I'm sure the player would like signing bonuses and the team can use this year to help spread out money to lower cap hits.

(06-27-2019, 05:13 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The team could have done better in FA by going for different players within the same cost range (somewhat).
For example:
Daryl Williams instead of Bobby Hart
Jordan Hicks instead of Preston Brown

Jordan Hicks......4 yr $34 million
Preston Brown...3 yr $16.5 million

Daryl Williams was trying to play with a torn MCL when he blew his knee out in the first game of the 2018 season.

(06-26-2019, 09:03 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: The right side of the line looks bad with Hart and Miller. Have confidence in both Westerman and Glenn. We need Price to improve desperately.

Miller has experience, 47 starts.. Westerman has done little .. give me Miller on the line

Clint Boling was a draft surprise. Getting him in the 4th round, and starting as a rookie and delivering 8 years of yeoman work, he was a hidden gem of the 2011 draft. If this is indeed the end for him, I wish him well, and hope that he remains healthy enough to enjoy the rest of his life with his family.

On the other hand, the 2019 draft brings us Michael Jordan. He is another Guard prospect that is built more like a tackle, much in the same style as Clint Boling. Let's not forget that Jordan was the first true freshman to start on the OSU line, sine the great Orlando Pace. I have a strange feeling that once the pads come on, Michael Jordan is going to climb the ranks and emerge as a contender for multiple spots on the Bengals OL this year.

(06-27-2019, 05:13 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The team could have done better in FA by going for different players within the same cost range (somewhat).
For example:
Daryl Williams instead of Bobby Hart
Jordan Hicks instead of Preston Brown

It's the whole familiarity vs risk thing. Hart and/or Brown could be better this year than Williams and Hicks respectively but bringing back the same guys doesn't invoke optimism or hope leading into the season.

Indeed. Saffold at Guard. There were guys out there that were upgrades. LJ Fort at LB signed cheap in Philly.

Free agency was catastrophic.

People think we'll come up with the Rams scheme...but the Rams have a really good offensive line. We have a bad one. If you put a bad line on the Rams, they would struggle too.

And on defense...our LB's are still bad.

You can't win in the NFL with 2 Bottom 5 position groups in the NFL.

The bad thing is that guys will likely have more injuries once camp starts. Just a fact of the NFL.

(06-27-2019, 11:15 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Indeed. Saffold at Guard. There were guys out there that were upgrades. LJ Fort at LB signed cheap in Philly.

Free agency was catastrophic.

People think we'll come up with the Rams scheme...but the Rams have a really good offensive line. We have a bad one. If you put a bad line on the Rams, they would struggle too.

And on defense...our LB's are still bad.

You can't win in the NFL with 2 Bottom 5 position groups in the NFL.

For all we are claiming/hoping we are following the 2018 Rams model, our actions seem a lot more 2013 Dolphins model.

(06-27-2019, 05:13 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The team could have done better in FA by going for different players within the same cost range (somewhat).
For example:
Daryl Williams instead of Bobby Hart
Jordan Hicks instead of Preston Brown

It's the whole familiarity vs risk thing. Hart and/or Brown could be better this year than Williams and Hicks respectively but bringing back the same guys doesn't invoke optimism or hope leading into the season.

Not trying to be snarky, but we kind of have enough injury issues without throwing a ton of money in FA at a couple of injury prone guys like Hicks and Williams.

Williams is actually pretty unrealistic.  He resigned with Carolina on a one year deal.  Basically, he's hoping to return to form this year so he can cash in next year.  Why would he then choose to sign with the Bengals with a new coaching staff and learn a new scheme that he may or may not excel in while he's coming back from serious injury when he can stay in Carolina under the same staff and in the same scheme that made him a star?  You can say offer him $1-2 million more than the Panthers, but that could easily cost him 10's of millions under his next contract.  It doesn't make sense on his end.  

People need to get away from this idea that we could've just signed any desired FA by offering them the same or slightly more than the team they signed with.

(06-27-2019, 11:15 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Indeed. Saffold at Guard. There were guys out there that were upgrades. LJ Fort at LB signed cheap in Philly.

Free agency was catastrophic.

People think we'll come up with the Rams scheme...but the Rams have a really good offensive line. We have a bad one. If you put a bad line on the Rams, they would struggle too.

And on defense...our LB's are still bad.

You can't win in the NFL with 2 Bottom 5 position groups in the NFL.

Thing is, the Rams scheme is all about keeping the defense guessing about whether it's a run or a pass.  That helps the OL.  It's not like the old Bob Bratkowski offense where everyone knows what you're doing but it doesn't matter because they can't beat your OL.  

People also forget that when the Pats figured out that McVay had to hand hold Goff that the Rams OL was dominated to a man in the SB.  

Losing Williams was a huge blow, no two ways around it.  Losing Boling would also hurt, but he's also been pretty mediocre the past couple of years.  They didn't have trouble scoring points last year with a crap OL until skill players started dropping, though, so we'll see.

(06-27-2019, 06:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Jordan Hicks......4 yr $34 million
Preston Brown...3 yr $16.5 million

Daryl Williams was trying to play with a torn MCL when he blew his knee out in the first game of the 2018 season.

Yes, 4-$34 is $8.5/year. 3-$16.5 is $5.5/year. To me, a difference of $3 mill is at least in the same ballpark. At least compared to the likes of CJ Mosley, Kwon Alexander, and Anthony Barr, who were all $13+ mill a year.

And I know Williams' situation too. Are you saying that it was good the Bengals didn't sign someone coming off a torn MCL? Or are you saying he never would have signed because he felt he could get (much) more money in 2020 if he shows he has recovered well from the MCL this year?

(06-28-2019, 12:22 AM)Whatever Wrote: Not trying to be snarky, but we kind of have enough injury issues without throwing a ton of money in FA at a couple of injury prone guys like Hicks and Williams.

Williams is actually pretty unrealistic.  He resigned with Carolina on a one year deal.  Basically, he's hoping to return to form this year so he can cash in next year.  Why would he then choose to sign with the Bengals with a new coaching staff and learn a new scheme that he may or may not excel in while he's coming back from serious injury when he can stay in Carolina under the same staff and in the same scheme that made him a star?  You can say offer him $1-2 million more than the Panthers, but that could easily cost him 10's of millions under his next contract.  It doesn't make sense on his end.  

People need to get away from this idea that we could've just signed any desired FA by offering them the same or slightly more than the team they signed with.

I just really didn't/don't have faith in Bobby Hart.
And I liked Preston Brown but I liked other LBs more in the under $10 mill a year range. Zach Brown, Jordan Hicks, KJ Wright.

(06-27-2019, 11:15 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Indeed. Saffold at Guard. There were guys out there that were upgrades. LJ Fort at LB signed cheap in Philly.

Free agency was catastrophic.

People think we'll come up with the Rams scheme...but the Rams have a really good offensive line. We have a bad one. If you put a bad line on the Rams, they would struggle too.

And on defense...our LB's are still bad.

You can't win in the NFL with 2 Bottom 5 position groups in the NFL.

I was trying to think more of the options under $10 mill a year, as that's what the Bengals do.
Still can't believe Zach Brown signed with PHI for just $1.5 mill. Man, I think that was a steal.

(06-27-2019, 09:08 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Miller has experience, 47 starts.. Westerman has done little .. give me Miller on the line

Miller is a decent signing. He's not a top-tier guy but I'd much rather him over Redmond.

Srarting line of Glenn Price Hopkins Miller Hart would work imho its not spectacular but adequate

It would be one of the worst in the league.

(06-28-2019, 10:38 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It would be one of the worst in the league.

I disagree, it would be just as good as last years OL. 

(06-28-2019, 09:24 AM)ochocincos Wrote: And I know Williams' situation too. Are you saying that it was good the Bengals didn't sign someone coming off a torn MCL? Or are you saying he never would have signed because he felt he could get (much) more money in 2020 if he shows he has recovered well from the MCL this year?

I am saying that if we had signed Williams you would be crying about the Bengals giving money to a guy with a bad injury on a one year deal when even his own team would not re-sign him.

When we signed the leagues leading tackler in the '18 offseason fans whine because it was just a one year deal.  Think what they would have done if we had done that with a guy who had missed the entire previous season.