(07-06-2019, 05:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Nothing wrong with plan to let older players go before they break down and using high draft picks to replace them.  The problem a has been in the execution.  

Even the best teams have high draft picks that flop, but they will use free agency to fill holes when they miss in the draft.  Not every player taken in the first two rounds will be good, but most of them should at least be starters.  In just the last 7 years we have used those picks on guys like Devon Still, Margus Hunt, Tyler Eifert, Jeremy Hill, Jake Fisher, Cedric Ogbuehi, John Ross, and Billy Price.  I still feel pretty good about Price, and we did get one good year each out of Hill and Eifert, but that is 8 players in the first two rounds with very little production at all.  If you are a team that lives by the draft those picks should be what you build your team around.

Very true. We've done great on some pics, but for the most part, flopped on others. Also, I think Price will pan out to be good also, dude had rough luck last year as a rookie.

(07-06-2019, 05:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Nothing wrong with plan to let older players go before they break down and using high draft picks to replace them.  The problem a has been in the execution.  

Even the best teams have high draft picks that flop, but they will use free agency to fill holes when they miss in the draft.  Not every player taken in the first two rounds will be good, but most of them should at least be starters.  In just the last 7 years we have used those picks on guys like Devon Still, Margus Hunt, Tyler Eifert, Jeremy Hill, Jake Fisher, Cedric Ogbuehi, John Ross, and Billy Price.  I still feel pretty good about Price, and we did get one good year each out of Hill and Eifert, but that is 8 players in the first two rounds with very little production at all.  If you are a team that lives by the draft those picks should be what you build your team around.

Nice points!


I know this has been covered a lot, but the small scouting Dept has to play some factor. When you don't have a lot of scouts, you have to rely on scouting reports and on TV footage. There are just some things you can't pickup in that scenario.

re: Jonah Williams - I wonder if we even scouted him thinking he was going higher? With a small scouting staff, you just can't heavily scout everyone.

I know some people say that size of scouting dept doesn't matter, but the Steelers and Patriots have double and triple our size...and they have great results. And here the Bengals are with yet another 1st Round pick out for the season. Injuries happen...but the sheer amount we have had is just crazy. 

(07-06-2019, 05:39 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: That's a dumb narrative that the forum uses. As you've shown, Ross got opportunities and didn't produce. He likely wouldn't produce in KC either.

People in the forum think coaches are magic.

Yeah, and Jared Goff was third string as a former #1 overall selection and thought to be a bust...and then McVeigh came along and he becomes a Super Bowl QB.  

Just sayin....it does happen.  Coaching matters.  Ask Brady and the Pats. 

(07-05-2019, 09:41 AM)Wyche Wrote: I'm with Natley, let him return kicks.

That would be a great thought, given his speed and other physical attributes.  However, even with the propensity to get injured not withstanding, there are a couple of personality characteristics that good returners seem to have.  They need to have that confidence to express the strong desire to be the return man, as well as have the vision to anticipate the crease developing before it's actually there, and commit to it 100%.

(07-07-2019, 08:42 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That would be a great thought, given his speed and other physical attributes.  However, even with the propensity to get injured not withstanding, there are a couple of personality characteristics that good returners seem to have.  They need to have that confidence to express the strong desire to be the return man, as well as have the vision to anticipate the crease developing before it's actually there, and commit to it 100%.

Yeah that is exactly right......and confidence is something we haven't seen out of Ross so far, or a real strong desire for that matter. I like the guy and love his potential, but no doubt this is his year to show up or be shown out the door. 

(07-07-2019, 08:25 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Just sayin....it does happen.  Coaching matters.  Ask Brady and the Pats. 

I just called them and asked why their first round pick in 2014, Dominique Easley, was a bust and they said coaching just can't fix everybody.

(07-07-2019, 10:55 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I just called them and asked why their first round pick in 2014, Dominique Easley, was a bust and they said coaching just can't fix everybody.

Funny, I called Belichick and he told me, "Coaching can't fix injuries."

(07-06-2019, 07:27 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Very true. We've done great on some pics, but for the most part, flopped on others. Also, I think Price will pan out to be good also, dude had rough luck last year as a rookie.

Price got pushed back ALOT in daltons face by huge Nose Tackles,and that will not change this season.He needs help against those,We shall see how he does this season,but I am going to be watching him a lot as he is in position to set the stage for the offense and to me,I see him struggling to do that.Hope not,but Hopkins to me is better and Jordan from Ohio State is a much bigger body to play center,once he gets it down,put Price at guard.Hopefully the coaches will figure this all out and our season depends on them to coach very effectively.

(07-07-2019, 11:56 AM)Chezaugie Wrote: Funny, I called Belichick and he told me, "Coaching can't fix injuries."

He was a bust even when healthy.

But lets talk about Albert Haynesworth.

(07-07-2019, 08:25 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Yeah, and Jared Goff was third string as a former #1 overall selection and thought to be a bust...and then McVeigh came along and he becomes a Super Bowl QB.  

Just sayin....it does happen.  Coaching matters.  Ask Brady and the Pats. 

I don't think Goff was anything other than the starter in his tenure, but I agree with you, coaching made him look 100x better than he was.

(07-07-2019, 11:56 AM)Chezaugie Wrote: Funny, I called Belichick and he told me, "Coaching can't fix injuries."

I just called him, and he said "I don't like people playin' on my phone!!!".

(07-07-2019, 12:42 PM)jason Wrote: I just called him, and he said "I don't like people playin' on my phone!!!".

He just called me and asked me to tell you guys to stop calling him. 

(07-07-2019, 12:04 PM)fortyyearfan Wrote: Price got pushed back ALOT in daltons face by huge Nose Tackles,and that will not change this season.He needs help against those,We shall see how he does this season,but I am going to be watching him a lot as he is in position to set the stage for the offense and to me,I see him struggling to do that.Hope not,but Hopkins to me is better and Jordan from Ohio State is a much bigger body to play center,once he gets it down,put Price at guard.Hopefully the coaches will figure this all out and our season depends on them to coach very effectively.

Lap said Price has bulked up a lot, especially in his lower body, so we'll have to see what he can do with big NT's this year.

Price said this off-season that OSU runs a very simple offense and he was having a lot of trouble trying to get the offense down last year, but feels more comfortable this year.  Given that, I really don't have high hopes for MJ being an immediate contributor, but he definitely has the tools to develop into one in a year or two.

(07-07-2019, 12:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He was a bust even when healthy.

But lets talk about Albert Haynesworth.

You mean the 2x Pro Bowl player?

(07-07-2019, 01:24 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: He just called me and asked me to tell you guys to stop calling him. 

Can't help it. His number was already programmed on my Jitterbug flip phone when I bought it.

(07-07-2019, 12:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He was a bust even when healthy.

But lets talk about Albert Haynesworth.

"Easley was a good player in 2015, trailing only J.J. Watt in pass rushing productivity per Pro Football Focus, and was the #1 most effective interior rusher. Cutting an elite player before their third season in the NFL is unexpected, to say the least" 

I'll take that bust on my team. If he hadn't had annual knee problems he could have been a very good player.

(07-06-2019, 10:33 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Nice points!


I know this has been covered a lot, but the small scouting Dept has to play some factor. When you don't have a lot of scouts, you have to rely on scouting reports and on TV footage. There are just some things you can't pickup in that scenario.

re: Jonah Williams - I wonder if we even scouted him thinking he was going higher? With a small scouting staff, you just can't heavily scout everyone.

I know some people say that size of scouting dept doesn't matter, but the Steelers and Patriots have double and triple our size...and they have great results. And here the Bengals are with yet another 1st Round pick out for the season. Injuries happen...but the sheer amount we have had is just crazy. 

They met with Williams at the Combine and also went to his Pro Day, so I highly doubt they didn't do their due diligence on him.  Every team has it's own big board and guys fall all the time.  

Besides which, if they are missing medical issues, that's more of an issue with the medical staff than the scouting department.  

If there was a preexisting issue, it's likely they knew and made the pick anyway.  Due to the rookie salary structure, it's much more appealing to teams to take a kid that may need a medical red shirt year.  Jeffrey Simmons isn't going to play this year with a torn ACL and still went in the top 20.  If Williams is a franchise LT as advertised, then missing his rookie year isn't going to mean much 7-8 years from now.  The draft is chess, not checkers.  My guess is that they thought he could play through it this year, then get it fixed in the off season without missing time.  

(07-07-2019, 08:25 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Yeah, and Jared Goff was third string as a former #1 overall selection and thought to be a bust...and then McVeigh came along and he becomes a Super Bowl QB.  

Just sayin....it does happen.  Coaching matters.  Ask Brady and the Pats. 

A QB and WR are comparing apples to oranges.

Plus, Ross struggled in OTA's and last time I checked...we have a new coaching staff.

(07-07-2019, 12:27 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I don't think Goff was anything other than the starter in his tenure, but I agree with you, coaching made him look 100x better than he was.

So did them fixing their offensive line and adding guys like Cooks/Woods/Watkins. And QB's are different animals that have to learn a system.

The Rams actually improved their roster in free agency. Something the Bengals didn't do this year.

(07-07-2019, 04:07 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So did them fixing their offensive line and adding guys like Cooks/Woods/Watkins. And QB's are different animals that have to learn a system.

The Rams actually improved their roster in free agency. Something the Bengals didn't do this year.

Coaches have an effect on that stuff as well. Perhaps getting into the game late put ZT and the coaching staff behind in free agency.

Maybe they will make more moves next year, ya never know.