(07-25-2019, 10:07 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: damnit the last thing we need is players spontaneously combusting on the field.

Hell, we've had every other kind of injury...

(07-25-2019, 09:28 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Agreed, Brad, and it is nice to see some more optimism thrown his way.  It will be challenging for him because, honestly, he would be behind Boyd, AJ, and likely Eifert as a target, but if the running game is rolling, play-action shots with him could get him some big numbers with minimal targets.  I will NEVER understand the limited plays last year.  He is a nightmare in space, and they hardly ever threw him a screen or hitch to get him the ball and try to make someone miss.  

ZT will not care who he is or when he was drafted....if he can make plays, he will get the ball.

That is what I am talkin' about. Ross just needs to give Dalton something to trust in. Run the right routes, catch the ball and he should have a huge year and the more plays Ross makes, the more comfortable, confident and consistent he will become. Use the guy right unlike Zamp, Lazor and Marv...


I think Taylor and company can do this.

(07-25-2019, 10:10 AM)ochocincos Wrote: While Ross definitely should shoulder some of the blame for his lack of production up to this point, I think a big issue was that the team wanted to use him in a very particular way.

He was often sent on more deep routes and the occasional jet sweep. His average depth of target was 14.6, which was the deepest on the team.
I really don't recall him being utilized a lot in the short passing game, which was a forte of his at Washington. I think a good indicator too of this being his strength is how productive he was in the red zone last year. Basically, he was forced into short yardage routes because the field was squished and he was able to produce very well.

I really hope we see Ross utilized (a lot) more in short routes like screens, slants, etc.

Spot on Ocho, reps 

(07-25-2019, 01:00 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Of course it is a positive regardless, just not as big of a positive in a winning season.

But yeah, I agree with the rest of your post.







True, there were a few plays last year where Dalton didn't give Ross a chance and underthrew him.

Dalton still needs to get used to his speed and Ross needs to start giving Dalton a reason to trust him, like running the right routes and catching the damn ball when it comes his way. No excuses for this.



All true.

I think we're going to see a new J. Ross this season. Am I saying he's the next J. Rice ? No

But I think there's mostly untapped potential there. This year he has to do it though, there's no more room for excuses.

(07-25-2019, 09:43 AM)fredtoast Wrote: This just is not true.  Marvin played rookies and young players as much as the average NFL coach.  We had tons of rookies start under Marvin.
And nothing indicates that Marvin did not like Ross.  All of the evidence points to Ross not being good enough to get on the field his rookies season.

Not good enough, and injuries.  That is all in the past, as is the stupid Marv plays veterans and doesn't like rookies argument (and FWIW, I was in the camp that thought he did just that).  Right now, Ross is healthy, learning a new offense with everyone else at the same time, and will be (likely) given every opportunity to help the Bengals win.

I wanted him drafted, and I am not giving up on him...

(07-25-2019, 01:08 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I think we're going to see a new J. Ross this season. Am I saying he's the next J. Rice ? No

But I think there's mostly untapped potential there. This year he has to do it though, there's no more room for excuses.

I think so too, I think we will see something special this year, Taylor and company should know how to use him. The dude's short quickness and ability in space wasn't utilized correctly except in the Red Zone last season. Get him the ball on short routes and let him go to work. Screens, short slants, short curls. Not just the deep ball that Dalton underthrew him on a few times last year. With any player in the NFL these guys are the best and they can handle even the fastest guy in the world, have to change things up so the Defense has more to prepare for, then nail them with the deep ball.

For us to win 9-10-11 games this year, we'll need Ross to produce in a big way.

(07-25-2019, 01:06 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That is what I am talkin' about. Ross just needs to give Dalton something to trust in. Run the right routes, catch the ball and he should have a huge year and the more plays Ross makes, the more comfortable, confident and consistent he will become. Use the guy right unlike Zamp, Lazor and Marv...


I think Taylor and company can do this.

One thing I would do is run the jet sweep on about 50% of the plays...whether you hand him the ball or not, the LBs have to freeze.  I'm only partly kidding.  Give him the ball a few times, and they have to respect it.  

I just want the guys on the roster to make it to opening day healthy.  

(07-25-2019, 01:15 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: One thing I would do is run the jet sweep on about 50% of the plays...whether you hand him the ball or not, the LBs have to freeze.  I'm only partly kidding.  Give him the ball a few times, and they have to respect it.  

I just want the guys on the roster to make it to opening day healthy.  

I would be surprised if our offense DOESN'T have plays like that.

(07-25-2019, 01:15 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: One thing I would do is run the jet sweep on about 50% of the plays...whether you hand him the ball or not, the LBs have to freeze.  I'm only partly kidding.  Give him the ball a few times, and they have to respect it.  

I just want the guys on the roster to make it to opening day healthy.  

We will likely see alot more of that kinda stuff this year. There's pictures of Alex Erickson running thr jet sweep as Dalton hands Mixon the ball.

Zach Taylor and Not Bill Callahan are going to make defenses defend horizontally and vertically.

(07-25-2019, 01:08 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: This year he has to do it though, there's no more room for excuses.

Except he's learning a new system and our o-line is crap and might severely hamper the passing game, and there is no guarantee Callahan will know how to use the guy any better than Lazor did, and we have the same ol' WRs coach, and he's also kinda a rookie, and so on and so forth.

I'm just saying, we can easily kick the can on judging Ross down the road another year.  He and Dalton have had what...4 games together in total?  He's practically a rookie. 

(07-25-2019, 01:03 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Right

You don't catch 7 TD's, mostly in the red zone because you're a bum ! He may well flourish under ZT ? Or he may get buried on the depth chart by game 3 ?

But until proven otherwise I still maintain ML and Co. did him few favors. Am I saying it's all their fault ? NO

Ross got A LOT of playing time and opportunities last year. You can't put that on the coaching staff.

And how lost he looked at the start of last year, probably didn't warrant him playing.

(07-25-2019, 01:20 PM)Synric Wrote: We will likely see alot more of that kinda stuff this year. There's pictures of Alex Erickson running thr jet sweep as Dalton hands Mixon the ball.

Zach Taylor and Not Bill Callahan are going to make defenses defend horizontally and vertically.

I feel like the Bengals have used that play at various points over the Lewis era too.

(07-25-2019, 11:40 AM)BengalChris Wrote: ^^^ This

It's funny how the same excuses keep getting recycled when it comes to John Ross.

That’s what we do here. Rather than Accept that a player might not be as good as we’d hoped, we must first pass through the 3 year rookie period and then exhaust the bad coaching grace period (duration may vary depending on coach and or player).

(07-25-2019, 01:36 PM)HuDey Wrote: That’s what we do here. Rather than Accept that a player might not be as good as we’d hoped, we must first pass through the 3 year rookie period and then exhaust the bad coaching grace period (duration may vary depending on coach and or player).

Reasonable people don't pretend to see the future and therefore adopt a wait and see approach.

(07-25-2019, 01:29 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I feel like the Bengals have used that play at various points over the Lewis era too.

Yea during Jay and Hues tenure they used some jet sweeps  end around, and alot more outside zone stuff. Brat, Zampese, and Lazor were alot more vertical.

Ross: "It is only a wafer thin mint."

(07-25-2019, 01:39 PM)McC Wrote: Reasonable people don't pretend to see the future and therefore adopt a wait and see approach.

I’d also say that it is reasonable to have limitations on the wait and see based on the past, which we’ve already seen.

(07-25-2019, 02:00 PM)HuDey Wrote: I’d also say that it is reasonable to have limitations on the wait and see based on the past, which we’ve already seen.

Well, he's still here and that says the wait is not over.  Maybe we can complain him away.

(07-25-2019, 01:36 PM)HuDey Wrote: That’s what we do here. Rather than Accept that a player might not be as good as we’d hoped, we must first pass through the 3 year rookie period and then exhaust the bad coaching grace period (duration may vary depending on coach and or player).

And the "all-knowing" like yourself would have cut Adam Thielen when he only had 20 receptions over his first two seasons.

And all he did over the last two years was catch 200+ passes for over 2600 yards.