(07-28-2019, 12:01 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Because ranking things is fun. Making lists is fun, etc.

No need to take it so seriously. Just something to debate on a MB.

You might me watching too much ESPN or NFLN. 

The thread doesn't look so funlike.  I see a bit of making it personal going on among people who seem to be taking it very seriously.

(07-28-2019, 11:06 AM)Synric Wrote: What do you consider elite production? AJ Green has had some great seasons and a few where he was hurt...

Statistically - Guys like Hopkins, Brown, and Julio Jones would be elite. Hopkins and B


A guy like Deandre Hopkins was over 1500 yards twice in his 6 year career so far. Over 1300 3 times. Over 1200 4 times.

AJ has never been over 1500 yards. He's been over 1400 once. And 1300 twice in 9 years. Over 1200 3 times.

Over the past 3 years, AJ's high was 1078 yards and that was in 16 games. If you look at his stats, he clearly has his best seasons in his 1st 5 years. Actually the case could be made that he did his best work in his 1st 3 years and then has declined over the past 6 years.

Antonio Brown was over 1800 yards once. Over 1600 yards twice. Over 1500 yards 3 times. (And he just missed that being 4 as he had 1499 yards receiving one year. Over 1400 yards 4 times. Over 1200 yards 6 times. He's done his best work over the past 6 years.

Julio Jones who was drafted the same year as AJ is also a good comparison. He's been over 1800 yards once. 1600 yards TWICE. (He did it last year in fact.) 1500 yards 3 times.  And 1400 yards 5 times. (Each of the past 5 years Julio has went over 1400 yards in fact.)

So while we're making excuses for AJ being injured...guys like Brown and Julio Jones are actually getting better statistically. And at AJ's best which was his 3rd year, he had 1426 yards...while the top guys statistically go over 1800.

Now, you could argue that Matt Ryan and Roethlisberger are just better than Dalton. And that if Green were on the Falcons that he'd be producing at that level.

(07-28-2019, 11:53 AM)Synric Wrote: I dont believe AJ is a top 3 receiver if I had to rank the top 3 it would be Julio AB Hopkins.
 

Michael Thomas might beg to differ..

(07-28-2019, 11:53 AM)Synric Wrote: I dont believe AJ is a top 3 receiver if I had to rank the top 3 it would be Julio AB Hopkins.

...but anyone with eyes knows how dangerous AJ Green is when hes on the field that's why hes been consistently voted on by his peers as a top player usually around the top 25. 

He was 58th this year. But yes, I'd easily say he is a Top 5 WR. But, statistically he was at his best his 1st 5 years in the league.

(07-28-2019, 12:04 PM)McC Wrote: You might me watching too much ESPN or NFLN. 

The thread doesn't look so funlike.  I see a bit of making it personal going on among people who seem to be taking it very seriously.

Don’t watch either (unless the Bengals are on).

And it’s one person making it personal...

(07-28-2019, 12:11 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Michael Thomas might beg to differ..

Mike Evans would too...why I hate ranking players I prefer tiers.

(07-28-2019, 12:15 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Don’t watch either (unless the Bengals are on).

And it’s one person making it personal...

Whenever I see the lists being discussed, they never look fun.  Let me put it this way, they may start out fun but they don't end that way.

(07-28-2019, 12:11 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Michael Thomas might beg to differ..

Yep. And Mike Evans.

Keenan Allen is good. OBJ. Davonte Adams. Juju. I think AJ fits somewhere in that mix.

Thielan and Diggs are good for the Vikings.

the game has evolved to the point where even a bum WR like Kenny Britt can achieve 1000 yds.
WRs are like ice cream. so many different kinds. its all on your likening.
I tend to judge WRs on not by their individual numbers.
but on rather how much they have a impact on their offense.
I think very few WRs in the NFL have as much impact on their offense as AJ does with the Bengals.
when hes not playing the Bengals past offenses faced more defenses that were condensed etc.
maybe with ZT running the offense it can still move the chains if AJ misses time.
while AJ doesnt have the number of other WRs like Hopkins Brown, those were more pass happy offenses
but this offense is still decided on Greens health.
the Saints can move the ball without Thomas.
the Steelers offense will still be elite without Brown.
but Green is a different story

I consider AJ one of, if the the, most talented WRs in the NFL. Folks always talk how how much better our QB would be elsewhere. How much better do we think AJ would be if he had one of the better QBs in the NFL throwing to him? Just look at the jump in Sanu's numbers once he went to ATL.

(07-28-2019, 12:10 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Statistically - Guys like Hopkins, Brown, and Julio Jones would be elite. Hopkins and B


A guy like Deandre Hopkins was over 1500 yards twice in his 6 year career so far. Over 1300 3 times. Over 1200 4 times.

AJ has never been over 1500 yards. He's been over 1400 once. And 1300 twice in 9 years. Over 1200 3 times.

Over the past 3 years, AJ's high was 1078 yards and that was in 16 games. If you look at his stats, he clearly has his best seasons in his 1st 5 years. Actually the case could be made that he did his best work in his 1st 3 years and then has declined over the past 6 years.

Antonio Brown was over 1800 yards once. Over 1600 yards twice. Over 1500 yards 3 times. (And he just missed that being 4 as he had 1499 yards receiving one year. Over 1400 yards 4 times. Over 1200 yards 6 times. He's done his best work over the past 6 years.

Julio Jones who was drafted the same year as AJ is also a good comparison. He's been over 1800 yards once. 1600 yards TWICE. (He did it last year in fact.) 1500 yards 3 times.  And 1400 yards 5 times. (Each of the past 5 years Julio has went over 1400 yards in fact.)

So while we're making excuses for AJ being injured...guys like Brown and Julio Jones are actually getting better statistically. And at AJ's best which was his 3rd year, he had 1426 yards...while the top guys statistically go over 1800.

Now, you could argue that Matt Ryan and Roethlisberger are just better than Dalton. And that if Green were on the Falcons that he'd be producing at that level.

He was on pace for 1700 yards in 2016 before he got hurt and he was on pace for 1,300 yards and 12 TDs last season.

(07-28-2019, 12:37 AM)jason Wrote: Marvin wilted in big games. Zac Taylor wilts in practice.

Rep

(07-28-2019, 12:18 PM)Synric Wrote: Mike Evans would too...why I hate ranking players I prefer tiers.

I agree, but if ranking I like ranking on results (facts) versus would have, could have, but did not due to any reason.

(07-28-2019, 12:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I consider AJ one of, if the the, most talented WRs in the NFL. Folks always talk how how much better our QB would be elsewhere. How much better do we think AJ would be if he had one of the better QBs in the NFL throwing to him? Just look at the jump in Sanu's numbers once he went to ATL.

I call a foul. Sanu was promoted to a #2 wideout from a #3 WR in Cincy. M. Jones was our number 2, a player given a #1 contract at Detroit.

So, it can be argued AD helped their careers as well. But, I know you hate AD so you will not want to debate it.

(07-28-2019, 10:51 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Why does everyone always come up with so many excuses when their players don't have elite numbers...(rhetorical)

AJ Green is a very good WR but he's not elite. He's undoubtedly Dalton's top target but even with that, his numbers don't match top 5 guys. 

Elite talent, no question. Elite production, no.

The production of a WR depends on a lot of different things including offensive scheme, skill of other receivers, skill of QB, and even how often their team is trailing.  But when I look at just skills I see an elite WR in A J Green.  I am not saying he is the best.  I am not going to get into a much too complicated argument over the efficiency and production of all the top WRs.  Green just has to stay healthy.  When he is healthy he is an elite talent.

(07-28-2019, 01:04 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I call a foul. Sanu was promoted to a #2 wideout from a #3 WR in Cincy. M. Jones was our number 2, a player given a #1 contract at Detroit.

So, it can be argued AD helped their careers as well. But, I know you hate AD so you will not want to debate it.

Call foul all you want but Mo was the #3 in ATL last year and had his best year ever. Also there are times he was the #2 or even #1 option while here including the entire 2014 season. It's really not that hard to imagine AJ putting up some of the best numbers in the NFL if he had someone like Matt Ryan or Big Ben throwing to him his entire career. 

(07-28-2019, 01:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It's really not that hard to imagine AJ putting up some of the best numbers in the NFL if he had someone like Matt Ryan or Big Ben throwing to him his entire career. 

Not so much the QB as the offensive scheme.

Dalton has never attempted 600 passes in a season.  He only has 2 seasons with more than 550 attempts.

Ryan has attempted 600 passes 5 times and 550 seven times.

Last year Big Ben led the league with 675 attempts.  It was his second season with 600+ attempts.  He has 4 with 550+ attempts.

(07-27-2019, 04:50 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: We have a curse. We have to figure a way to lift it. Let me drink on this for awhile, I'll think of something.

I thought that if nothing else, they will have to prepare as though he won't be there.  I have said for years that they rely too much on AJ instead of going after your best matchup.  Hopefully, this gets Dalton and Co even more dialed in with Boyd, Ross, Malone, and Core.  Those guys (Malone and Core) won't get another shot after this year (at least not here).  It would seem they are fighting for the same spot.  

Just trying to glean anything I can from this disappointing news.  But I am still hopeful he won't miss that much time. 

AJ with Matt Ryan and the system Ryan plays in would have no doubt put up bigger stats than AJ has with Dalton and our numerous systems. Injuries, sure, but Atlanta airs it out big and has a big time QB. Dalton is a good QB no doubt, but he aint no Matt Ryan, or Matt Stafford or even Ben Worthlessbooger just to name a few. Marvin's teams have been conservative especially with any kind of lead, and AJ has played with a "good QB" who has benefited from having an elite WR. Dalton never looked very good when AJ went down. AJ is a huge factor in Dalton's success as an NFL QB. Its definitely not the other way around.

(07-28-2019, 01:26 PM)bengaloo Wrote: AJ with Matt Ryan and the system Ryan plays in would have no doubt put up bigger stats than AJ has with Dalton and our numerous systems. Injuries, sure, but Atlanta airs it out big and has a big time QB. Dalton is a good QB no doubt, but he aint no Matt Ryan, or Matt Stafford or even Ben Worthlessbooger just to name a few. Marvin's teams have been conservative especially with any kind of lead, and AJ has played with a "good QB" who has benefited from having an elite WR. Dalton never looked very good when AJ went down. AJ is a huge factor in Dalton's success as an NFL QB. Its definitely not the other way around.

I would put Dalton in the same tier as Ryan and Stafford.