(08-21-2019, 12:12 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I just don't get the negative ways especially after the shitty coaching we have seen for years.

I like what i have seen from this coaching staff....

FOR ONCE SINCE WYCHE!!!!

I'm on the negative wagon here Nate, but I agree with what you say about the coaching staff.   They are the ones that give me the greatest hope for the season.   

I just think we've had too many injuries, I have no confidence in Ross (though I have a pleading hope), the offensive line shows a promise for the future (mostly Williams and Jordan) but is currently unable to get any push in the running game, our line-backing squad could be on the upswing, but is overall too weak and the WR room really has two players we can rely on for sure - and one of them is injured.

Cleveland looks like the real deal, Pittsburgh's offense will be challenged, but they still have a great O-line, QB, RB (I'm a Conner fan), tough and serviceable TEs and decent WRs.  And their defense is good - and improving at the LB and DB position.   I don't know what to think of the Ravens.

I could easily see us getting swept by the north - though I think we'll split with the Ravens.

The bottom line is that we have a lot to overcome.   But there is the chance that if we stay healthy and a few players really pan out (Ross,  Pratt, P. Brown, A. Brown, M. Jordan, Price and whoever plays right guard) - OK that's more than a few - we could have a pretty good season!

Without a super major injury or injuries that would completely destroy the season.
With that being said I think this teams has serious potential to challenge for the division and win a playoff game.
Lawson coming back is huge get for the Defense and drafting Pratt will be another huge get for the defense. The Secondary and D-LINE are top notch so if the LB core can just be solid this Defense will be no worse than top 10.
Offensively the line is a big unknown and quite honestly the most worrisome unit on the team. There more questions than Answers at this point which is not good. With that being said we have a good QB, Teir 1 RB, Teir 1 WR, and Teir 1 TE when all are healthy on the roster. Yes Green is currently injured but I have confidence that Malone and Ross can fill in for him for 2 to 4 weeks.

(08-20-2019, 01:28 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: It’s going to be a long year. Too many injured starters already . Oline n Linebackers weak links.

unfortunately I have to say   :andy:

(08-21-2019, 09:53 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: How did a coach (ML) many disrespect do in year one?

https://www.bengals.com/history/years/2002

I will help you, read above. He took a team from 2-14 to 8-8, yet some fans think too much to ask for ZT to take a team from 6-10 to 9 or 10 wins year one? A team decimated by injury to key players in 2018?

It confuses me. If he is incredible as you state, we should expect a 4 to 6 game improvement in my mind.

FYI..Our 1st round pick in 2003 did not start, it was Carson Palmer so lose that excuse also.

Gee thanks, dude. I was there. Condescend much?

Yes, Marvin showed instant improvement upon taking control. God bless him for that. It also took him 3 seasons to post a winning season, and he only posted a winning record once in his first 6 years. If that's the standard we're going to hold ZT to then let's go all the way and give him the same benefit of the doubt. Instead we're here saying he has to improve on a hypothetical number of wins that last years team didn't even get close to because hey, maybe they could have, possibly, who knows. Seems fair.

As people love to point out, Zach is taking over a team coming off 3 straight losing seasons. On top of that, last year the Bengals had the worst defense in the league. How anyone looks at that and says "9 wins or he's a failure" is beyond me, and that's not even mentioning how his front office did next to nothing to help him in free agency (compare that to Marvin's first offseason), his star WR is already out and he's lost his first round draft pick for the year (so he's in the same boat as Marvin on that one, no leg up there).

"If he is incredible as you state"? You're pulling a Fred and responding to things people didn't say - show me where I said ZT was an incredible coach. I don't know what type of coach he is going to be and neither do you. All I'm saying is let's give the guy a friggin' chance to get acclimated with a bad team before we go all "playoffs or bust" on the guy.

(08-21-2019, 12:44 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Gee thanks, dude. I was there. Condescend much?

Yes, Marvin showed instant improvement upon taking control. God bless him for that. It also took him 3 seasons to post a winning season, and he only posted a winning record once in his first 6 years. If that's the standard we're going to hold ZT to then let's go all the way and give him the same benefit of the doubt. Instead we're here saying he has to improve on a hypothetical number of wins that last years team didn't even get close to because hey, maybe they could have, possibly, who knows. Seems fair.

As people love to point out, Zach is taking over a team coming off 3 straight losing seasons. On top of that, last year the Bengals had the worst defense in the league. How anyone looks at that and says "9 wins or he's a failure" is beyond me, and that's not even mentioning how his front office did next to nothing to help him in free agency (compare that to Marvin's first offseason), his star WR is already out and he's lost his first round draft pick for the year (so he's in the same boat as Marvin on that one, no leg up there).

"If he is incredible as you state"? You're pulling a Fred and responding to things people didn't say - show me where I said ZT was an incredible coach. I don't know what type of coach he is going to be and neither do you. All I'm saying is let's give the guy a friggin' chance to get acclimated with a bad team before we go all "playoffs or bust" on the guy.

My apologies if you felt I was attacking you in any way. I have always respected your thoughts and posts.


Right here post #50

"I mean this is the same thread where people are saying "well I think they might have won 9 or 10 games last year if so-and-so doesn't happen", so I don't think it's unfair to point it out. "The 6-10 finish was a 6-10 finish and wasn't 9-7."

Are we really going to call our brand new and incredibly young head coach a disappointment if he doesn't turn a 6 win team with a god awful defense into a 9 win team overnight? I'm just not sure I can buy that, sorry. "

So not sure why you are ranting. I simply pointed out ML improved 6 games with a crappy roster and no production from his 1st round pick in 2003, his first as a HC. BTW, I am rooting for him to be great, but I will believe it when he wins games.

(08-21-2019, 12:29 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Perhaps some may see calling our most successful coach in franchise history "shitty" and claiming we are instantly going to be better without a guy who at least got our woebegone franchise to the playoffs 6 times in 7 years as being negative.

I'm glad we moved on from Marvin, but the guy won 131 games here and apparently the optimistic take is that Marvin isn't fit to lick the boots of a HC who runs a good practice, compliments the hell out of Bobby Hart, and claims a guy who is going to miss the whole season is "dinged up."  Again, I wish we had moved on from Mavin sooner, but I don't see how me waiting to declare "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" is particularly negative.  



I know I'm not...then again, I'm not convinced ZT is already leaps and bounds better than Marvin.  I expect some sort of growing pains, because as enthused as he and the player and fans are, the guy got a huge promotion to come here.  He's learning on the job.  Thrown into the deep end and so on.  

I don't disrespect Marv's overall mediocre record, slightly over .500.

But his in game coaching and prime time and Playoff record was abhorrent and if you didn't see this i don't know what to tell you. You trying to pick apart those little things that Taylor and his staff have done is weird to me. None of us know exactly what is going on and complimenting one of your players is not a bad thing especially when in reality Bobby Hart was a better all around OT than Cordy Glenn was last season.

I like what I have seen so far in Taylor, he is nothing like Marv, which to me, is a start.

We need to move on from Marv and from what I have seen Taylor is the perfect guy to start anew, we will see.

(08-21-2019, 10:48 AM)3wt Wrote: I'm on the negative wagon here Nate, but I agree with what you say about the coaching staff.   They are the ones that give me the greatest hope for the season.   

I just think we've had too many injuries, I have no confidence in Ross (though I have a pleading hope), the offensive line shows a promise for the future (mostly Williams and Jordan) but is currently unable to get any push in the running game, our line-backing squad could be on the upswing, but is overall too weak and the WR room really has two players we can rely on for sure - and one of them is injured.

Cleveland looks like the real deal, Pittsburgh's offense will be challenged, but they still have a great O-line, QB, RB (I'm a Conner fan), tough and serviceable TEs and decent WRs.  And their defense is good - and improving at the LB and DB position.   I don't know what to think of the Ravens.

I could easily see us getting swept by the north - though I think we'll split with the Ravens.

The bottom line is that we have a lot to overcome.   But there is the chance that if we stay healthy and a few players really pan out (Ross,  Pratt, P. Brown, A. Brown, M. Jordan, Price and whoever plays right guard) - OK that's more than a few - we could have a pretty good season!

I understand your take 3wt as always. I think our two biggest weaknesses have been upgraded and we won 6 games last year with a stale team that looked lost and was showing lack of effort at times. The O-line is looking good in pass protection, need to get the penalties in check and need to improve in the run blocking as you note but Mixon had a bad Line last season and still led the AFC in rushing and our Line could still improve in this aspect. Sample helps the Line out too.

The Linebackers look much better under Tem already and with the addition of Pratt i think we have a future star. Preston needs to be healthy, Vigil and Evans have looked much better this Offseason and Camp etc. I mean i see more positives than negatives myself. But i have to admit i cannot be negative, takes too much out of you. Some i guess like to let themselves down so they don't fall but that is not me and in the end it is just a game and it is Taylor's first season at HC but i think he has a lot of great tools to work with.

(08-20-2019, 01:28 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: It’s going to be a long year. Too many injured starters already . Oline n Linebackers weak links.

I think LB can get by as long as no injuries to Pratt, Brown, and Vigil.
The OL situation has caused me to go lower in my original projection from after the draft.
I think there will be growth by the end of the year but I think this team will really struggle in September and maybe into October.

I see 6 losses for sure. LAR, SEA, and NE outside the division and probably at least 3 losses in the division.
I think one thing that really hurt SF last year was having a really tough schedule and key injuries. They've upgraded their defense, Garoppolo is back, and they've added Tevin Coleman who will pair well with Matt Breida and knows Kyle Shanahan's offense. I could easily see this being a loss too since there's a chance Bengals could be down both Green and Ross still on Sept 15.
Bills will be a grind-it-out game I think but CIN has typically played well against them so I think that's a W.
Toss-ups I think will be NYJ, MIA, JAX, ARZ.

(08-21-2019, 01:36 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I don't disrespect Marv's overall mediocre record, slightly over .500.

But his in game coaching and prime time and Playoff record was abhorrent and if you didn't see this i don't know what to tell you. You trying to pick apart those little things that Taylor and his staff have done is weird to me. None of us know exactly what is going on and complimenting one of your players is not a bad thing especially when in reality Bobby Hart was a better all around OT than Cordy Glenn was last season.

I like what I have seen so far in Taylor, he is nothing like Marv, which to me, is a start.

We need to move on from Marv and from what I have seen Taylor is the perfect guy to start anew, we will see.

I'm not picking apart Taylor so much as I'm not seeing the picture that he is the completely opposite of Marvin and getting a HC who is the complete opposite of Marvin is exactly what this franchise needed.  And it goes back to you criticizing me for being negative. I think one could see "Thank god Taylor isn't Marvin" as a negative statement. 

But I get it...it's fandom.  The guys who left were bad and made us bad and the guys we brought in to replace them are good and will make us good.  Hopefully Taylor does well, because we're going to be looking for the opposite of him if he fails, I guess.  But really, going in with this notion that our coaching staff is solid gold could lead to players being thrown under the bus if things don't go great.  Time will tell, I guess.


EDIT - Also, keep in mind that I voted 8-8 and you voted 9-7 in this poll and I"m skeptical of the coach and you think he's the perfect fit.  Wacky.

To be clear, I am not bashing the new staff. I welcome it, we needed a change.

But, the new staff still needs to win my confidence. They do that by winning and winning only. It may not be in year 1, that is OK as long as team did not totally implode for no clear reason.

We all want ZT to be the next Bill Belichick or close to it. We all want a winner. The sooner, the better.

Wow! There is no consensus in this poll at all. Which more or less fits my expectations. I don't know what to expect, in terms of success by this team. I made my 9 wins vote based on what last year's team did with key players out for nearly half the season.

(08-21-2019, 02:20 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm not picking apart Taylor so much as I'm not seeing the picture that he is the completely opposite of Marvin and getting a HC who is the complete opposite of Marvin is exactly what this franchise needed.  And it goes back to you criticizing me for being negative. I think one could see "Thank god Taylor isn't Marvin" as a negative statement. 

But I get it...it's fandom.  The guys who left were bad and made us bad and the guys we brought in to replace them are good and will make us good.  Hopefully Taylor does well, because we're going to be looking for the opposite of him if he fails, I guess.  But really, going in with this notion that our coaching staff is solid gold could lead to players being thrown under the bus if things don't go great.  Time will tell, I guess.


EDIT - Also, keep in mind that I voted 8-8 and you voted 9-7 in this poll and I"m skeptical of the coach and you think he's the perfect fit.  Wacky.

It is wacky. Taylor is young, energetic, gets pissed when things aren't going right and you don't get why i like this over the old, tired, lethargic, stale dude with his arms folded on the sideline with a WTF look on his face. Honestly am surprised you voted 8 wins with this newbie HC lol

I picked 6 wins, i do think thats the low. If we can stay healthy and figure out our oline we coiuld really surprise some people...i dont see us making a playoff push. but if cordy glenn can stay healthy hes a solid Left tackle. I really like michael jordan at left guard and he is only gonna get better. i think price if staying healthy can become a good center by years end. i love hopkins and i think he even right now is a better right guard than miller and i love to see him in place of miller at right guard... and i swear to you ive watched andre smith like a hawk this preseason and he has looked solid. i honestly would love to see a "may the best man win" at right tackle i think he could beat out hart and jerry. I doubt hart will ever be replaced until either an injury or he plays himself out of a job but IMO the best 5 on the oline would be Glenn, Jordan, Price, Hopkins, and smith if u asked me now.
then if pratt continues to impress and take vigils spot next to brown i will feel alot better about our linebacking group and i think we may have something here. its ambitious to think we wont suffer another injury setback but if by the grace of god we can and then get aj green back, both our offense and defense can be something. Mixon looks poised to be a superstar dalton imo has looked sharp...boyd is just an outstanding reciever couple that with eifert back lookout imo. On defense. our dline is looking like a top tier d line in the league with a nasty rotation and our defensive backs are gooood with depth. Bates williams kirkpatrick with jackson webb and dennard (healthy obviously) are top 10 dback group in the league. plus with the pressure up front again if we can stay healthy i think we can surprise some people and see something promising going forward.

(08-21-2019, 01:07 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: My apologies if you felt I was attacking you in any way. I have always respected your thoughts and posts.


Right here post #50

"I mean this is the same thread where people are saying "well I think they might have won 9 or 10 games last year if so-and-so doesn't happen", so I don't think it's unfair to point it out. "The 6-10 finish was a 6-10 finish and wasn't 9-7."

Are we really going to call our brand new and incredibly young head coach a disappointment if he doesn't turn a 6 win team with a god awful defense into a 9 win team overnight? I'm just not sure I can buy that, sorry. "

So not sure why you are ranting. I simply pointed out ML improved 6 games with a crappy roster and no production from his 1st round pick in 2003, his first as a HC. BTW, I am rooting for him to be great, but I will believe it when he wins games.

Incredibly =/= incredible.

I called our coach incredibly young. You bolded it. That is not even remotely the same thing as saying our new head coach is incredible.

(08-21-2019, 03:07 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: It is wacky. Taylor is young, energetic, gets pissed when things aren't going right and you don't get why i like this over the old, tired, lethargic, stale dude with his arms folded on the sideline with a WTF look on his face. Honestly am surprised you voted 8 wins with this newbie HC lol

I need more than energy and yelling before I assume a super rookie hc can coach rings around a 16 year vet, even if the vet hc is boring and average.

I expect ZT to have some growing pains, that's all.  I'll be interested to see how he reacts when the Steelers punch us in the mouth. Im optimistic, but you seem like you've already got him as our best HC in 30 years.

(08-21-2019, 03:07 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote:  Taylor is young, energetic, gets pissed when things aren't going right and you don't get why i like this over the old, tired, lethargic, stale dude with his arms folded on the sideline with a WTF look on his face.

Silly me.  I have always judged coaches based on their knowledge and teaching skills.  I had not idea it was about being young and not folding the arms.

(08-21-2019, 04:35 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Incredibly =/= incredible.

I called our coach incredibly young. You bolded it. That is not even remotely the same thing as saying our new head coach is incredible.

Yep, it is official. I am very old and senile. 

(08-21-2019, 05:35 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Yep, it is official. I am very old and senile. 

Happens to the best of them, no worries.

(08-21-2019, 04:40 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I need more than energy and yelling before I assume a super rookie hc can coach rings around a 16 year vet, even if the vet hc is boring and average.

I expect ZT to have some growing pains, that's all.  I'll be interested to see how he reacts when the Steelers punch us in the mouth. Im optimistic, but you seem like you've already got him as our best HC in 30 years.

No, I am just liking the change so far.

I agree with the rest of your post though, Taylor will have some growing pains, that is a given.

(08-21-2019, 04:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote:


Silly me.  I have always judged coaches based on their knowledge and teaching skills.  I had not idea it was about being young and not folding the arms.

Except Bill doesn't have a WTF look on his face cause his team is getting trounced.

I'm going full unreasonable.. UNDEFEATED!  I have nothing to lose other than respect and I never expected that anyway and don't particularly care.. The Bengals will never lose another game EVER!   ........  .....  ..