(08-23-2019, 01:22 PM)Goalpost Wrote: So I was just in Vegas.  Flew home yesterday matter of fact.  The Bengals are projected to be the 2nd worst AFC team...only behind the Dolphins.... per the sports boards.  Arizona looks bad in the NFC.  I'd say we are 3rd worst team in the NFL starting out.  We are a 9 1/2 point underdog to Seattle on week 1, the biggest underdog on the board that I noticed.  Cleveland is a big favorite in our division...better than 1 to 1...they were listed at 10/11 odds.  Yea.  Vegas could care less who wins.  The board merely is where the early money is going.

Hmm, I might just have put a few $$ down on that bet, because you know that by game day it'll be down to 61/2 or 7 points.

Anyone else see the alignment with Geno at RDE Dunlap at LDE Glasgow and Lawson inside.

Reminded me of the superbowl when the Rams had Suh lined up at RDE.

He also nearly had a huge TFL on the play before the sack. Dude is going to be huge for us.

(08-23-2019, 02:37 PM)Synric Wrote: Anyone else see the alignment with Geno at RDE Dunlap at LDE Glasgow and Lawson inside.

Reminded me of the superbowl when the Rams had Suh lined up at RDE.

Love this stuff.

(08-23-2019, 02:37 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: He also nearly had a huge TFL on the play before the sack. Dude is going to be huge for us.

The Law has rare ability that is for sure.

(08-23-2019, 02:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Correct, even though he was nto getting sacks he was getting pressure.  And pressure makes passing numbers go down even if there are no sacks.

According to NextGen Stats Lawson was the #3 edge rusher in the league in percentage of pass rush defeats (getting past blocker in 2.5 seconds or less).

This, sacks are overrated. Pressures change games even more than sacks.

Leads to turnovers, the only thing better is a sack fumble. Sack the QB and make him fumble or make him throw an interception.

(08-23-2019, 02:37 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: He also nearly had a huge TFL on the play before the sack. Dude is going to be huge for us.

He was blatently held on the play following the sack or he would've had another one.

(08-23-2019, 02:44 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This, sacks are overrated. Pressures change games even more than sacks.

Leads to turnovers, the only thing better is a sack fumble. Sack the QB and make him fumble or make him throw an interception.

I dunno that sacks are overrated, but they are more of a team effort than many believe they are.

(08-23-2019, 03:05 PM)jason Wrote: I dunno that sacks are overrated, but they are more of a team effort than many believe they are.

Agreed Sacks are not overrated they are properly rated.

(08-23-2019, 03:05 PM)jason Wrote: I dunno that sacks are overrated, but they are more of a team effort than many believe they are.

Yeah, it depends on the play. Lots of times Geno flushes the QB out of the pocket, another guy gets the sack and the cred.

That is what I mean by overrated. Shows up on the stat line.

Pressures sometimes don't. Well they didn't until lately, I think being completely disruptive is more of an indicator of great D-line play ala Lawson, Geno and Dunlap. Geno gets a lot of sacks cause he just has such quickness and power that Guards and Centers are just caught off Guard. Lawson will get his eventually, just needs to finish, the same with Dunlap. The only complaint I have ever had with Dunlap is him finishing. Tackle the bastid Los!

(08-23-2019, 03:05 PM)jason Wrote: I dunno that sacks are overrated, but they are more of a team effort than many believe they are.

Heard a great interview with a guy about the NextGen Stats.  One thing they show is that the sack is usually not recorded by the first guy to get pressure.

I think soon we will be seeing a stat like "first pressure" or "sack assist" to give more credit to the guys who are contributing to the sack.

(08-23-2019, 03:11 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Agreed Sacks are not overrated they are properly rated.

Sacks CAN BE overrated.  For example you can't really judge an interior defensive linemen just on his sack numbers.  And even though sacks are better than pressures you have to give some credit for BOTH instead of just looking at sack totals alone without considering pressures.

(08-23-2019, 02:44 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This, sacks are overrated. Pressures change games even more than sacks.

Leads to turnovers, the only thing better is a sack fumble. Sack the QB and make him fumble or make him throw an interception.

(08-23-2019, 03:05 PM)jason Wrote: I dunno that sacks are overrated, but they are more of a team effort than many believe they are.

(08-23-2019, 03:11 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Agreed Sacks are not overrated they are properly rated.

I believe Nate's point is that purely looking at sacks, and not taking pressures into account, is underrating a player's effectiveness.

And I agree with Jason. It is not uncommon that DE sacks are as a result of pressure up the middle, which closes the escape route in the pocket - unless the OT gets beat inside.

In order to protect the edge, the classic QB pressure package is a pincer move by the ends and pressure from inside by DTs to flush the QB towards the turning ends.

Fred could probably find some stat that speaks to this.

(08-23-2019, 03:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Heard a great interview with a guy about the NextGen Stats.  One thing they show is that the sack is usually not recorded by the first guy to get pressure.

I think soon we will be seeing a stat like "first pressure" or "sack assist" to give more credit to the guys who are contributing to the sack.

right if DTs push up the middle QB generally rolls to one of the DE's  or when a DE forces a QB to step up often a DT will finish with the sack.

(08-23-2019, 11:38 AM)Fullrock Wrote: Lawson, Dunlap, Hubbard, and Geno should ALL be on the field on obvious passing downs. You want to double Geno then someone else will make you pay.

I was going to make a thread about this. If ZT is as smart as I hope he is I think we will see those 4 out there quite a bit just wrecking shit.

Pick and choose a 5th DL to add to those 4 and when we bring 5 it will be a serious headache for opposing offenses.

(08-23-2019, 04:27 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I was going to make a thread about this. If ZT is as smart as I hope he is I think we will see those 4 out there quite a bit just wrecking shit.

Pick and choose a 5th DL to add to those 4 and when we bring 5 it will be a serious headache for opposing offenses.

No doubt Nati, We finally have the other 2 pass rushers to complete a dominant pass rushing Line.

Then once in awhile drop Hubbard back and blitz Linebackers and Safeties.

I would like to give the Bengal Organization a recommendation...

Please trade out of the First round in up coming drafts and garner as many 4th round picks as possible. Lawson is another 4th round gem. Lawson is like a projectile shot out of a cannon!

May Wren follow the pattern.

(08-23-2019, 03:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sacks CAN BE overrated.  For example you can't really judge an interior defensive linemen just on his sack numbers.  And even though sacks are better than pressures you have to give some credit for BOTH instead of just looking at sack totals alone without considering pressures.

If you're judging a pass rusher based purely on sacks and not other pressure stats than yes a sack can be overrated. 

(08-23-2019, 12:55 PM)NKURyan Wrote: I believe that 7% comes from ESPN's "football power index".

Yeh but was the 7% rounded up or down? Pretty important to know that

Just wanted to add that opposing teams will counter the 5-1-5 or 5-2-4 with TE crossing routes that endlessly kills the Bengals. Maybe passes in along the flat, like the Giants did last preseason game.

This says it all:

Against the $15.5M left tackle. #LawsonExpress https://t.co/wf4NoTHfNL

— Paul Dehner Jr. (@pauldehnerjr) August 23, 2019