Got a feeling he might be Armon Binns 2.0 lol. If Ross can play like anything remotely resembling a first round pick along with Boyd we just need Willis to be serviceable. Personally I’m not buying the hype Articles on our team. If we’re being honest I don’t think we have a very good team. Our offensive line is scary bad on paper ,feel like A.J. will miss more than two games and still have concerns about our defense being able to get off the field. Have no faith in Ross or Eifert being able to stay healthy.

(08-26-2019, 01:55 PM)lone bengal Wrote: Got a feeling he might be Armon Binns 2.0 lol. If Ross can play like anything remotely resembling a first round pick along with Boyd we just need Willis to be serviceable. Personally I’m not buying the hype Articles on our team. If we’re being honest I don’t think we have a very good team. Our offensive line is scary bad on paper ,feel like A.J. will miss more than two games and still have concerns about our defense being able to get off the field. Have no faith in Ross or Eifert being able to stay healthy.

Not anointing Wllis or anything, but Binns was NEVER as good as Willis is, not to mention, I believe he is more athletic/faster than Binns ever was as well.

(08-26-2019, 12:43 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Bump for Racer calling it 3 weeks ago.

Thanks, but real kudos goes to the Bengals for having scouted him and offering him a strong UDFA contract.  

(08-05-2019, 07:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Ross's success in the red zone had nothing to do with skill.  It was all about getting favorable coverage matchups against red zone defenses.

If his 7tds catches were based in any way on any skill then he would have been able to use it anywhere else on the field.  IN fact he would have been able to use it EVEN BETTER between the 20's where defenses have more space to cover and receivers have more room to get open.

I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous.  You don't think it took any skill to get open in all the trash in the red zone?  And what you are saying about between the 20s is true, which is why is was that puzzling that they didn't use Ross in that way in that area...mostly vertical routes to take the top off the defense.  

(08-06-2019, 09:36 AM)TopSix Wrote: Fellas

This can’t be real

You’re hanging your hat on a UDFA from Troy who barely had 800 yards as a senior and was skipped by over 220 selections.

UDFAs have less than a 1% chance to make a 53.

They have an even more fractional chance to play

And lottery type odds to contribute and be a starter.

How has this become bengal fandom?  Just say crazy stuff and hope reality isn’t a thing.

Willis is not a solution

Banned and moronic!

And the best QB in history, from a Championship standpoint, was drafted #199 overall at the most important position on the field.  Experts fumble, too.  

(08-26-2019, 03:58 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Banned and moronic!

And the best QB in history, from a Championship standpoint, was drafted #199 overall at the most important position on the field.  Experts fumble, too.  

While I do think UDFA's can contribute, there are shades of truth in that posters post. We had Green and Boyd last year then basically terrible WR's. PFF grades for our #3 on WR's was really bad.

On a really good team, Willis doesn't start. He probably takes 2-3 years to develop.

Our lack of talent at WR put him in a nice spot to earn this shot. And he did.

Every year though, posters seem to overrate our WR room. Then guys like Core and Malone don't produce and we get other guys in who people are equally enamored by.

(08-05-2019, 07:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Ross's success in the red zone had nothing to do with skill.  It was all about getting favorable coverage matchups against red zone defenses.

If his 7tds catches were based in any way on any skill then he would have been able to use it anywhere else on the field.  IN fact he would have been able to use it EVEN BETTER between the 20's where defenses have more space to cover and receivers have more room to get open.

If that were actually true everyone would be really good in the red zone. While your partially right that it is related to the coverage being ran in the red zone, it is also related to his skill set. In the red zone you still get a lot of press man, usually with an inside or outside shade depending on the player. Ross is good at two things slant and fades, so when guys play his outside shoulder he runs a slant and runs away from the defender and when they play his inside shoulder the go to a fade. He actually had a nice Sluggo in the red zone against Denel Ward of Cleveland hitting him with the slant off the jam and pushing it back out into the fade for an easy TD. While it doesn't seem complex his skill set of being very fast does make a difference, it just seems counter intuitive that speed is that big a deal in a compressed field. 

It is true this should translate between the 20's as well but the big difference there is usually you get sight adjustments and I believe that is really the issue for Ross. He never had to make sight adjustments in college and so he struggles at the line adapting tot he defense while being on the same page with his QB. I would argue though that was a failure of the coaching staff to put him in a position to win. Dez Bryant could run three routes his whole career and the simplified their offense to ensure he could run those routes nearly every play. 

(08-26-2019, 04:18 PM)Au165 Wrote: If that were actually true everyone would be really good in the red zone. While your partially right that it is related to the coverage being ran in the red zone, it is also related to his skill set. In the red zone you still get a lot of press man, usually with an inside or outside shade depending on the player. Ross is good at two things slant and fades, so when guys play his outside shoulder he runs a slant and runs away from the defender and when they play his inside shoulder the go to a fade. He actually had a nice Sluggo in the red zone against Denel Ward of Cleveland hitting him with the slant off the jam and pushing it back out into the fade for an easy TD. While it doesn't seem complex his skill set of being very fast does make a difference, it just seems counter intuitive that speed is that big a deal in a compressed field. 

It is true this should translate between the 20's as well but the big difference there is usually you get sight adjustments and I believe that is really the issue for Ross. He never had to make sight adjustments in college and so he struggles at the line adapting tot he defense while being on the same page with his QB. I would argue though that was a failure of the coaching staff to put him in a position to win. Dez Bryant could run three routes his whole career and the simplified their offense to ensure he could run those routes nearly every play. 

Who's to say that the Bengals didn't simplify things for Ross?

By some accounts, he struggled in minicamp this year too. And without practicing all preseason, it's hard to see him producing.

(08-26-2019, 03:58 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Banned and moronic!

And the best QB in history, from a Championship standpoint, was drafted #199 overall at the most important position on the field.  Experts fumble, too.  

Whether it's better or worse, a decent number of UDFAs have actually ended up performing better than their drafted counterparts.

Trey Hopkins, a former UDFA, beat out 1st rounder Billy Price to start at C this year.
Last year, he started at RG, and then he was followed by fellow former UDFA Alex Redmond.

Vincent Rey had a solid career as a do-it-all first-off-the-bench LB and was a former UDFA.

Kyle Cook contributed a few very solid years as the starting C and was a former UDFA.

It's rare, but some UDFAs do end up becoming solid contributors and even starters.

(08-26-2019, 04:47 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Who's to say that the Bengals didn't simplify things for Ross?

By some accounts, he struggled in minicamp this year too. And without practicing all preseason, it's hard to see him producing.

Why do you keep saying he struggled in mini camp? Boyd said he was playing good and only needed to quit thinking so much.

(08-26-2019, 04:53 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Why do you keep saying he struggled in mini camp? Boyd said he was playing good and only needed to quit thinking so much.

I do recall a mention where Ross apparently ran a wrong route in minicamp (comment from a beat writer) on one snap, Dalton talked with him, and the very next play went right back to John Ross for a TD.

So the criticism is there from minicamp but it wasn't completely negative.

(08-26-2019, 04:08 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: While I do think UDFA's can contribute, there are shades of truth in that posters post. We had Green and Boyd last year then basically terrible WR's. PFF grades for our #3 on WR's was really bad.

On a really good team, Willis doesn't start. He probably takes 2-3 years to develop.

Our lack of talent at WR put him in a nice spot to earn this shot. And he did.

Every year though, posters seem to overrate our WR room. Then guys like Core and Malone don't produce and we get other guys in who people are equally enamored by.

Disagree.  The WRs, like RBs, are only going to be as good as the QB that throws them the ball, the line that blocks for them, and the coach that can design a scheme for them.  There are guys like Willis every year that slip through the eyes of the evaluators for whatever reason and go on to have a solid rookie season.  And WR is one of those positions I feel it takes longer to adjust to the NFL than say, RB.  

I know everyone is down on Ross, and they have good reason to be for a #9 overall pick.  I have faith that he will flourish in this offense and get more chances with jet sweeps, screens, etc to get him matched up one-on-one in space.  A lot of people have been discounting his 7 TDs last year, for whatever reason.  I think he has proven he can get separation quickly, which lends itself to more screens, etc.  I was flat-out amazed that they didn't use him in that way more, especially after losing Green and Eifert.  Those plays draw the secondary up closer, making them vulnerable to the deep shot.  It was pretty obvious that he was only going to run deep routes between the 20s and that takes away all elements of surprise.  I still believe Marv had a real issue with him being drafted and never liked the kid.  He didn't help matters with that immature "healthy scratch" video he posted, but I am very hopeful what he can do with a fresh start and a more offensive, creative mind.  

He is the #3 receiver on this team when AJ is healthy, and really might be the #5 receiving target behind Eifert and Mixon as well.  To have your #5 target have his big-play ability is pretty damn nice.  The others have to stay healthy, and the line has to protect to allow these routes to develop.  It should be a lot of fun to watch compared to year's past where it seemed like Dalton had very tight windows on almost every throw and the plays looked very predictable by formation.  

(08-26-2019, 04:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Whether it's better or worse, a decent number of UDFAs have actually ended up performing better than their drafted counterparts.

Trey Hopkins, a former UDFA, beat out 1st rounder Billy Price to start at C this year.
Last year, he started at RG, and then he was followed by fellow former UDFA Alex Redmond.

Vincent Rey had a solid career as a do-it-all first-off-the-bench LB and was a former UDFA.

Kyle Cook contributed a few very solid years as the starting C and was a former UDFA.

It's rare, but some UDFAs do end up becoming solid contributors and even starters.

He did?

(08-26-2019, 04:47 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Who's to say that the Bengals didn't simplify things for Ross?

By some accounts, he struggled in minicamp this year too. And without practicing all preseason, it's hard to see him producing.

...because they didn't. An easy package of no sight adjustment/no audible plays or "as is" plays would have been a good way to get him going. He had a nice 5 route in college, that's where I'd start. I'd have a bang 8 in there and then a drag as well. This year I think is different because I think he is expected to be an integral part with a lot of jet sweep motion on a number of plays, think what LAR and KC. 

(08-27-2019, 07:37 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: He did?

You don't think so?
Hopkins has allowed zero pressures so far this preseason. For as bad as the run blocking has been by the entire OL this preseason, the pass blocking has been decent and Hopkins has been one of the best.

You know, I was just thinking about all the different C's the Bengals have started and drafted since Mike Brown took over as owner.
The Bengals haven't gotten consistently good play from a C they drafted in quite a long time.

Their best starters at the position over the past 25 years have been Rich Braham (traded from Cardinals), Kyle Cook (undrafted), and now Hopkins (undrafted) maybe.

Their drafted Cs have been below average at best overall or didn't really ever see the field:
Rod Payne
Ghiaciuc
Luigs
TJ Johnson
Bodine
Dielman
Price

Price obviously still has plenty of opportunity to become a good-to-great player. With that said, the Bengals trend of drafted C's is against him, at least in regards to the C position. He may ultimately be a better fit at OG than C. 

We are missing completely on so many of the top 4 picks that we are going to have to hang our hat in some UDFA's. Maybe the kid will be alright, but it certainly will be a rare occurrence. The last 4 years of malaise in the franchise can be directly linked to our top picks underperforming. I was hoping to see Malone take a step. He has flashed and had the athleticism to be a great WR.

(08-27-2019, 11:27 AM)Brimey Wrote: We are missing completely on so many of the top 4 picks that we are going to have to hang our hat in some UDFA's. Maybe the kid will be alright, but it certainly will be a rare occurrence. The last 4 years of malaise in the franchise can be directly linked to our top picks underperforming. I was hoping to see Malone take a step. He has flashed and had the athleticism to be a great WR.

True, but one could argue our 2nd rounders over the last 3 drafts (Mixon, Boyd, Bates, Sample yet TBD) have all given us 1st round level play at times. 

(08-26-2019, 04:57 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I do recall a mention where Ross apparently ran a wrong route in minicamp (comment from a beat writer) on one snap, Dalton talked with him, and the very next play went right back to John Ross for a TD.

So the criticism is there from minicamp but it wasn't completely negative.

That is far from struggling. Learning a new system early on in OTAs?  

(08-27-2019, 11:35 AM)sandwedge Wrote: That is far from struggling. Learning a new system early on in OTAs?  

That's the only thing I remember seeing around John Ross struggling to learn the new system. He injured his hamstring right at the beginning of TC so it's not like he's really had much opportunity to struggle anyway.

(08-27-2019, 10:50 AM)ochocincos Wrote: You don't think so?
Hopkins has allowed zero pressures so far this preseason. For as bad as the run blocking has been by the entire OL this preseason, the pass blocking has been decent and Hopkins has been one of the best.

You know, I was just thinking about all the different C's the Bengals have started and drafted since Mike Brown took over as owner.
The Bengals haven't gotten consistently good play from a C they drafted in quite a long time.

Their best starters at the position over the past 25 years have been Rich Braham (traded from Cardinals), Kyle Cook (undrafted), and now Hopkins (undrafted) maybe.

Their drafted Cs have been below average at best overall or didn't really ever see the field:
Rod Payne
Ghiaciuc
Luigs
TJ Johnson
Bodine
Dielman
Price

Price obviously still has plenty of opportunity to become a good-to-great player. With that said, the Bengals trend of drafted C's is against him, at least in regards to the C position. He may ultimately be a better fit at OG than C. 

Still think Price will regain the starter position at the first sign of injury or slipup.

For the guys you mentioned though, Payne would've been a REALLY good C; Walsh had him rated highly and thought good things about him, not to mention he was strong and had a great size (especially for the time).

Injuries did him in, sadly, but every football game that came out at the time, had a 3rd rd C who barely saw the field (him, obviously), rated a high 60, low 70.

Too bad.