(08-26-2019, 04:18 PM)Au165 Wrote: If that were actually true everyone would be really good in the red zone. While your partially right that it is related to the coverage being ran in the red zone, it is also related to his skill set. In the red zone you still get a lot of press man, usually with an inside or outside shade depending on the player. Ross is good at two things slant and fades, so when guys play his outside shoulder he runs a slant and runs away from the defender and when they play his inside shoulder the go to a fade. He actually had a nice Sluggo in the red zone against Denel Ward of Cleveland hitting him with the slant off the jam and pushing it back out into the fade for an easy TD. While it doesn't seem complex his skill set of being very fast does make a difference, it just seems counter intuitive that speed is that big a deal in a compressed field. 

It is true this should translate between the 20's as well but the big difference there is usually you get sight adjustments and I believe that is really the issue for Ross. He never had to make sight adjustments in college and so he struggles at the line adapting tot he defense while being on the same page with his QB. I would argue though that was a failure of the coaching staff to put him in a position to win. Dez Bryant could run three routes his whole career and the simplified their offense to ensure he could run those routes nearly every play. 

Well said about Ross, for Fred to say Ross doesn't have any special skill set to score TD's is pretty humorous to me.

His quickness and speed are very rare skill sets. Like you said, he just needs to be used right and run more Slants and Fades. And of course Ross needs to stay healthy so he can be on the same page with his QB. We will see on Ross but it is not like he has nothing to offer.

(08-26-2019, 04:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Whether it's better or worse, a decent number of UDFAs have actually ended up performing better than their drafted counterparts.

Trey Hopkins, a former UDFA, beat out 1st rounder Billy Price to start at C this year.
Last year, he started at RG, and then he was followed by fellow former UDFA Alex Redmond.

Vincent Rey had a solid career as a do-it-all first-off-the-bench LB and was a former UDFA.

Kyle Cook contributed a few very solid years as the starting C and was a former UDFA.

It's rare, but some UDFAs do end up becoming solid contributors and even starters.

Burfict.

(08-27-2019, 02:07 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well said about Ross, for Fred to say Ross doesn't have any special skill set to score TD's is pretty humorous to me.

His quickness and speed are very rare skill sets. Like you said, he just needs to be used right and run more Slants and Fades. And of course Ross needs to stay healthy so he can be on the same page with his QB. We will see on Ross but it is not like he has nothing to offer.



Burfict.

Yes, Burfict too, although his reason for being a UDFA was purely based on on-field red flags, not about talent.
I legit forgot about him though.

(08-27-2019, 02:07 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well said about Ross, for Fred to say Ross doesn't have any special skill set to score TD's is pretty humorous to me.

His quickness and speed are very rare skill sets. Like you said, he just needs to be used right and run more Slants and Fades. And of course Ross needs to stay healthy so he can be on the same page with his QB. We will see on Ross but it is not like he has nothing to offer.



Burfict.

The curls and digs are what is going to get him in space. DBs that press him will be susceptible to this due to his quickness. I do have more confidence in Taylor getting him in position to use his skills. I just don't have as much confidence in him staying healthy.

(08-27-2019, 12:14 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Still think Price will regain the starter position at the first sign of injury or slipup.

at the moment id say hes first off the bench at RG C or LG....


But he may be able to retake the starting spot once his foot is healed.


But if the line plays well with Hopkins under center I don't mind price not playing. as others have pointed out our last good OC (at least one we mostly agree was good) was also a UDFA signed off someone elses practice squad.

(08-27-2019, 02:10 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Yes, Burfict too, although his reason for being a UDFA was purely based on on-field red flags, not about talent.
I legit forgot about him though.

Still reinforces your thoughts on UDFA's.

There are many that produce well in the NFL.

(08-27-2019, 02:29 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: The curls and digs are what is going to get him in space. DBs that press him will be susceptible to this due to his quickness. I do have more confidence in Taylor getting him in position to use his skills. I just don't have as much confidence in him staying healthy.

Plus WR Screens would be a good way to use his speed and quickness.

I am leaning at joining you on the health question. None of this matters if Ross cannot stay healthy.

This was my only concern with drafting him in the first place. Wasn't about talent that is for sure.

Has talent in spades.

(08-27-2019, 02:33 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: at the moment id say hes first off the bench at RG C or LG....


But he may be able to retake the starting spot once his foot is healed.


But if the line plays well with Hopkins under center I don't mind price not playing.   as others have pointed out our last good OC  (at least one we mostly agree was good) was also a UDFA signed off someone elses practice squad.

Cook was actually good until he got injured.

I want Price 100% before he starts again so he doesn't reinjure the foot.

Think the main reason Hopkins is starting is he is healthy and he has been very good in pass protection lately.

(08-27-2019, 10:50 AM)ochocincos Wrote: You don't think so?
Hopkins has allowed zero pressures so far this preseason. For as bad as the run blocking has been by the entire OL this preseason, the pass blocking has been decent and Hopkins has been one of the best.

You know, I was just thinking about all the different C's the Bengals have started and drafted since Mike Brown took over as owner.
The Bengals haven't gotten consistently good play from a C they drafted in quite a long time.

Their best starters at the position over the past 25 years have been Rich Braham (traded from Cardinals), Kyle Cook (undrafted), and now Hopkins (undrafted) maybe.

Their drafted Cs have been below average at best overall or didn't really ever see the field:
Rod Payne
Ghiaciuc
Luigs
TJ Johnson
Bodine
Dielman
Price

Price obviously still has plenty of opportunity to become a good-to-great player. With that said, the Bengals trend of drafted C's is against him, at least in regards to the C position. He may ultimately be a better fit at OG than C. 

While I completely agree with this, I am just surprised by what I saw in the run game.  Protection is probably more important (remember Dalton's very first pass last year?) but I thought Price was getting a better push.  I had not seen the so-called "roster" release when I read that post.  I am shocked, but pleased at the same time.  I think Price will be back as a Guard.  

(08-27-2019, 03:49 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: While I completely agree with this, I am just surprised by what I saw in the run game.  Protection is probably more important (remember Dalton's very first pass last year?) but I thought Price was getting a better push.  I had not seen the so-called "roster" release when I read that post.  I am shocked, but pleased at the same time.  I think Price will be back as a Guard.  

Have to keep the QB's healthy in the Preseason, namely your starter. So pass protection is much more important.

Our Line was good in this aspect this Preseason which is a good sign. I think they will be able to concentrate more on run blocking once the regular season starts cause we won't be vanilla. I agree on Price, i am expecting him to take Miller's spot at RG once Price is healthy and starts to play well. Between Jordan playing LG at OSU and now here, Hopkins being the top rated pass blocking Center this Preseason and Price having a great history at OSU playing at RG I think we might be okay once Price is healthy.

In the mean time Miller is decent for us at RG.

(08-28-2019, 12:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Have to keep the QB's healthy in the Preseason, namely your starter. So pass protection is much more important.

Our Line was good in this aspect this Preseason which is a good sign. I think they will be able to concentrate more on run blocking once the regular season starts cause we won't be vanilla. I agree on Price, i am expecting him to take Miller's spot at RG once Price is healthy and starts to play well. Between Jordan playing LG at OSU and now here, Hopkins being the top rated pass blocking Center this Preseason and Price having a great history at OSU playing at RG I think we might be okay once Price is healthy.

In the mean time Miller is decent for us at RG.

That would be nice! Although, kind of sucks that one of our 'big' signings was beat out.

(08-28-2019, 01:17 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: That would be nice! Although, kind of sucks that one of our 'big' signings was beat out.

I don't care as long as the O-line is good. Miller would be a great back up.

This is just what I am expecting with Price's upside and the fact he played more Guard in college than Center.

Love how he high points / attacks the ball. That'll come in very handy with his size inside the 20's.

Agreed on how he is great at high pointing the ball, he has good speed too for a big man.

He did deserve this, Willis was our best Receiver this year besides Boyd and that one sick TD catch he made.

Taylor knows Receivers man and I like Bicknell the WR coach. Think they found a gem here.

Sure as hell hope so, we need it.

Can’t wait to watch Willis,Boyd,Tate,along with 2 very talented TE’s in Uzomah and Eifert,and don’t forget about Erickson.And then to have Mixon,Bernard,and Anderson in the backfield.If This Oline can grade out at average or above then this could turn out to be a very dynamic offense.

(08-28-2019, 03:34 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: Love how he high points / attacks the ball.  That'll come in very handy with his size inside the 20's.

It will come in handy between the 20's too. Dalton has had a tendency to throw some crossing routes a little high, and guys like Eifert and Marvin Jones were able to reel these in by extending to make the catch. I see similar traits in Willis. Hope he performs even half as well as Marvin Jones.

Let's hope that also becomes a good student does his homework
On CBs that he will be facing week to week.
Here comes the hard part of a intresting journey
Can he make plays and be consistant week to week?
Can he RUN block?
I've seen WRs perform well in the preseason
Then when the regular season comes around...they disapear......we're Alex Erickson.
I hope he succeeds.
Could be a Josh Gordon minus the substance issues.

(08-28-2019, 05:18 PM)ochocincos Wrote: It will come in handy between the 20's too. Dalton has had a tendency to throw some crossing routes a little high, and guys like Eifert and Marvin Jones were able to reel these in by extending to make the catch. I see similar traits in Willis. Hope he performs even half as well as Marvin Jones.

I am really excited to watch him play in gm 1. I wish the kid the best because he appears to have good work ethic. I think he will shine.

(08-26-2019, 04:18 PM)Au165 Wrote: If that were actually true everyone would be really good in the red zone. While your partially right that it is related to the coverage being ran in the red zone, it is also related to his skill set. In the red zone you still get a lot of press man, usually with an inside or outside shade depending on the player. Ross is good at two things slant and fades, so when guys play his outside shoulder he runs a slant and runs away from the defender and when they play his inside shoulder the go to a fade. He actually had a nice Sluggo in the red zone against Denel Ward of Cleveland hitting him with the slant off the jam and pushing it back out into the fade for an easy TD. While it doesn't seem complex his skill set of being very fast does make a difference, it just seems counter intuitive that speed is that big a deal in a compressed field. 

It is true this should translate between the 20's as well but the big difference there is usually you get sight adjustments and I believe that is really the issue for Ross. He never had to make sight adjustments in college and so he struggles at the line adapting tot he defense while being on the same page with his QB. I would argue though that was a failure of the coaching staff to put him in a position to win. Dez Bryant could run three routes his whole career and the simplified their offense to ensure he could run those routes nearly every play. 

If Willis plays lights out, who would you rather have out there as the 3rd WR? AJ or Ross? AJ doesn't have mental difficulties with the game.

I still hope Ross straightens up, but it's just a hope thing.

(08-28-2019, 11:26 PM)BengalChris Wrote: If Willis plays lights out, who would you rather have out there as the 3rd WR? AJ or Ross? AJ doesn't have mental difficulties with the game.

I still hope Ross straightens up, but it's just a hope thing.

You're...kidding, right?

AJ Green is the unquestioned #1 WR on this team. I don't care how well Willis plays, when AJ is back, AJ is #1.

(08-28-2019, 04:43 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Agreed on how he is great at high pointing the ball, he has good speed too for a big man.

He did deserve this, Willis was our best Receiver this year besides Boyd and that one sick TD catch he made.

Taylor knows Receivers man and I like Bicknell the WR coach. Think they found a gem here.

Sure as hell hope so, we need it.

It was kind of funny, as I forget what podcast or show I was listening to, but they said "Willis really has two TDs this preseason, as the one that was called offensive pass interference wasn't at all offensive pas interference, just an official trying to join the flag party of the preseason".  

(08-28-2019, 11:26 PM)BengalChris Wrote: If Willis plays lights out, who would you rather have out there as the 3rd WR? AJ or Ross? AJ doesn't have mental difficulties with the game.

I still hope Ross straightens up, but it's just a hope thing.

Ross in the red zone over Willis would be my point based on the context of the post you quoted. What a weird question to randomly pose based on the previous post, not sure where AJ came from in this. Willis is fighting with Ross for outside reps when AJ comes back.

(08-28-2019, 11:26 PM)BengalChris Wrote: If Willis plays lights out, who would you rather have out there as the 3rd WR? AJ or Ross? AJ doesn't have mental difficulties with the game.

I still hope Ross straightens up, but it's just a hope thing.

If Willis plays lights out, he deserves to stay out there.
When AJ comes back, he deserves out there too.
Ross, at that point, would be WR4.