(08-27-2019, 03:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Belichick played Bledsoe in front of Brady until an injury forced his hand.

I'm sorry, wasn't Bledsoe a pretty good QB in his own right?  What was ahead of Burfict on that defense?  

(08-27-2019, 04:28 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I'm sorry, wasn't Bledsoe a pretty good QB in his own right?  What was ahead of Burfict on that defense?  

Thomas Howard. He was coming off a great year.

(08-27-2019, 04:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Five

Marvin only coached the team 5 years?  

(08-27-2019, 04:28 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I'm sorry, wasn't Bledsoe a pretty good QB in his own right?  What was ahead of Burfict on that defense?  

I remember him being about like Palmer, only with even more interceptions.

(08-27-2019, 03:15 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Don't poo poo fred's hours of research to find a single example to negate a point. 

I can appreciate Fred's statistical referencing, as he comes up with some quite interesting stuff from time to time.

(08-27-2019, 03:16 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Price looked good next to Hopkins at LG during the 'skins game. 

But MJ is there right now...

Interesting factoid.  In 2016 Michael Jordan played LG and Billy Price was an All-American at RG for Ohio St.

(08-27-2019, 04:37 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Marvin only coached the team 5 years?  

**sigh**

(08-27-2019, 08:24 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: And what did Marv focus on the most....defense....and what has sucked since we lost Zimmer?  Defense.

(08-27-2019, 03:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Zimmer has been gone 5 years.  We have finished in the top half of the league in scoring defense 4 times and twice in the top 10.

(08-27-2019, 05:41 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I can appreciate Fred's statistical referencing, as he comes up with some quite interesting stuff from time to time.


Interesting factoid.  In 2016 Michael Jordan played LG and Billy Price was an All-American at RG for Ohio St.

He comes up with a lot of interesting stuff that i enjoy a lot. 

It's just when he completely twists what i say and make me out to be something i'm not, that i don't like. 

(08-27-2019, 03:12 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: "Marv doesn't play rookies" is not true. 

My post above is. 

I wasn’t responding to you, more just adding my own two cents to a conversation I see getting brought up. I was unaware you had even mentioned it (I didn’t look at who Fred was responding to).

(08-25-2019, 11:44 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Just stop. It sounds silly. Keeps striking out in the draft. Tell that to WJIII and Jesse Bates. Williams will be back and be a beast. Sample is on track to be a major contributor. The Draft is a crap shoot, some work out, others don't. We haven't done any worse than any other team, it just seems like it because the bad string of luck we've had with injuries to 1st rounders.

Lol Williams will be a beast ? We have no idea we are just hoping Sample same thing they are unproven you can use them as great picks when they have done nothing. Bates n WJ3 are solid. The list of draft failures is too long to list though. And what amazing free agent Tobin has brought in , I mean they definitely put us over the hump. I know it’s your job to defend everyone that’s related to the Bengals but come on. Tobin is not all that and a bag of chips.

(08-28-2019, 12:36 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: I wasn’t responding to you, more just adding my own two cents to a conversation I see getting brought up. I was unaware you had even mentioned it (I didn’t look at who Fred was responding to).

Oh, i know. The "Marv wouldn't play rookies" claim is wrong. He would and he did...on occasion. It's a lot more complex than just that single, simple claim. 

One thing no one can really dispute is, he wasn't willing to step out on the ledge and play--and especially start--a rookie/UDFA unless there was a clear need at a position or unless a player was specifically drafted to fill a need. 

People make the claim and they're at least somewhat wrong. Other people use the claim as a way to dismiss a Marv shortcoming, as if an exception is the rule. 

Someone might try to come in and say, "well, AJ is out so Marv probably would have started Willis as well". That's BS. Malone and Core are in their 3rd and 4th seasons and there's no doubt that one of them would have been given the nod ahead of Willis. By situation, that's how Marv operated. 

(08-27-2019, 05:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: **sigh**

Ok, based on Marv's last five years here....and this is after Zimmer left and then Paulie G, who ran a similar defense, left a couple years later.

Here is the trend, and we will stick with scoring defense:

2014-11th
2015- 2nd
2016-7th
2017- 15th
2018- 29th

Not exactly the best trend line after Zimmer left.  

(08-28-2019, 07:23 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Ok, based on Marv's last five years here....and this is after Zimmer left and then Paulie G, who ran a similar defense, left a couple years later.

Here is the trend, and we will stick with scoring defense:

2014-11th
2015- 2nd
2016-7th
2017- 15th
2018- 29th

Not exactly the best trend line after Zimmer left.  

I use yards as my marker as PPG can be skewed by giving up TD's, field position on special teams or TD's, field position by the offense with turnovers.

Looking at your numbers, our defense was actually decent and in top 50% of league in 4 of the 5 years. Also top 10 two years. Last year was out of the norm for them, so let's see if they can bounce back in 2019.

(08-26-2019, 07:39 PM)Synric Wrote: This is probably a good reason why Hopkins won the starting job at Center.

Zac Taylor recently announced that Trey Hopkins will be the starter at center for the #Bengals

This preseason, Hopkins allowed zero pressures across 80 pass-blocking snaps.

His 90.4 pass-blocking grade this preseason ranks 1st among 60 qualifying centers! pic.twitter.com/N0uJzBmdsn

— PFF CIN Bengals (@PFF_Bengals) August 26, 2019

Makes sense now. Hope Price wins out at RG over Miller once he comes back.

An inside of Jordan, Hopkins and Price might be pretty damn good, at least in the pass blocking department.

(08-25-2019, 10:52 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You guys keep doing this wrong. I keep trying to tell you that the WRs are interchangeable. 

X, Z, slot, etc etc are field designations. They're not WR designations. Any WR can line up at any of those positions at any time. 

X, Y, Z.

I get confused, much better on the Defensive side of things. I think the one position that confuses me is WR at times.

(08-25-2019, 11:03 PM)Synric Wrote: Flanker is the receiver lined up off the line. While yes it interchanges from right to left side...the flanker is usually on the right why? Most QBs are right handed so it gives that side an easier release.

Makes sense as well.

(08-28-2019, 12:13 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Makes sense now. Hope Price wins out at RG over Miller once he comes back.

An inside of Jordan, Hopkins and Price might be pretty damn good, at least in the pass blocking department.

Hopkins is great at Pass-Pro but he gets zero push for the rush game.  Price gets good push but he misses second level targets and stunts appears to baffle him at times.  I hope Price gets a good look at RG if Miller falters down the line.  I am happy for Hopkins though.  Those numbers by PFF is quite astounding but lets see what he does when the bullets fly in regular season.  I will add, I thought Hopkins outplayed Price last year at Center overall.    

(08-28-2019, 05:08 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Hopkins is great at Pass-Pro but he gets zero push for the rush game.  Price gets good push but he misses second level targets and stunts appears to baffle him at times.  I hope Price gets a good look at RG if Miller falters down the line.  I am happy for Hopkins though.  Those numbers by PFF is quite astounding but lets see what he does when the bullets fly in regular season.  I will add, I thought Hopkins outplayed Price last year at Center overall.    

All true, but it is nice to have Centers that don't just get pushed back into the pocket. Hopkins might not be the best run blocker but he can create a pocket for Dalton to step into. Dalton hasn't had this very often in his career. Still think this will be Dalton and Mixon's biggest year to date.

(08-28-2019, 06:24 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: All true, but it is nice to have Centers that don't just get pushed back into the pocket. Hopkins might not be the best run blocker but he can create a pocket for Dalton to step into. Dalton hasn't had this very often in his career. Still think this will be Dalton and Mixon's biggest year to date.

If so and defense can get back to where they were on defense, ranked in top 15 (4 of last 5 years), then we may surprise some teams. I have no idea how it plays out, but Seattle offense has a ton of question marks on offense, on OL and at WR with injuries to #2 and #3 and only Lockett healthy. Hopefully our defense can take advantage and dominate them week 1.

(08-28-2019, 06:36 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If so and defense can get back to where they were on defense, ranked in top 15 (4 of last 5 years), then we may surprise some teams. I have no idea how it plays out, but Seattle offense has a ton of question marks on offense, on OL and at WR with injuries to #2 and #3 and only Lockett healthy. Hopefully our defense can take advantage and dominate them week 1.

They also lost a lot of damn good players on their Defense. As is noted in another thread they are stacked at LB but everywhere else they lost a bunch of talent, DL and Secondary lost a lot of great players. They are not the legion of boom anymore.

(08-28-2019, 05:08 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Hopkins is great at Pass-Pro but he gets zero push for the rush game.  Price gets good push but he misses second level targets and stunts appears to baffle him at times.  I hope Price gets a good look at RG if Miller falters down the line.  I am happy for Hopkins though.  Those numbers by PFF is quite astounding but lets see what he does when the bullets fly in regular season.  I will add, I thought Hopkins outplayed Price last year at Center overall.    

I have been thinking the same thing, and that Price is a more natural RG.  However, I look at this evaluation (brief) of John Miller by PFF before he was signed to a 3-year deal by the Bengals:  I didn't know he is just 25 himself and he allowed only one sack last season.  Impressive, given the rookie really held on to the ball a long time.  

Price may ultimately still be our Center of the future.  I think Jordan could be our LG for a very long time.  It is nice to have such quality depth at the interior of our offensive line.  It is a real bummer about Williams injury this year, but the future of the offensive line looks pretty bright, I believe.  

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-2019-free-agency-profile-john-miller

(08-29-2019, 07:39 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I have been thinking the same thing, and that Price is a more natural RG.  However, I look at this evaluation (brief) of John Miller by PFF before he was signed to a 3-year deal by the Bengals:  I didn't know he is just 25 himself and he allowed only one sack last season.  Impressive, given the rookie really held on to the ball a long time.  

Price may ultimately still be our Center of the future.  I think Jordan could be our LG for a very long time.  It is nice to have such quality depth at the interior of our offensive line.  It is a real bummer about Williams injury this year, but the future of the offensive line looks pretty bright, I believe.  

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-2019-free-agency-profile-john-miller

I remember another very good LT who started out for us at LG, Whittworth quickly moved to LT. I think Jordan ends up one of our tackles in time. He is young and he has the build of a OT versus a guard, much like Whitt.