(09-01-2019, 05:29 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Perine has been terrible as a RB.

Cooper is a returner.

Not that we gave up much in the guys we waived, but we didn't exactly bring in Superstars either.

I think terrible is a bit strong. He was good enough to start 8 games for the Skins as a rookie. Posted a couple of 100 yard games. He also showed ability to catch the football. I'd agree with you if we were looking at Perine as a starter, but as a 3rd RB, I'd say he's pretty fantastic.

(09-01-2019, 05:31 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well, in his 4 previous years in the NFL Cooper hasn't shown the ability to be used as a receiver.

You have to compare him to who he's replacing, which is Josh Malone. Malone has 7 career catches for 75 yards playing for a bad team. Cooper had 25 catches for 190 yards for a really good team. In addition to being an all-pro returner.

(09-01-2019, 08:16 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I think terrible is a bit strong. He was good enough to start 8 games for the Skins as a rookie. Posted a couple of 100 yard games. He also showed ability to catch the football. I'd agree with you if we were looking at Perine as a starter, but as a 3rd RB, I'd say he's pretty fantastic.


You have to compare him to who he's replacing, which is Josh Malone. Malone has 7 career catches for 75 yards playing for a bad team. Cooper had 25 catches for 190 yards for a really good team. In addition to being an all-pro returner.

1.) No one really produced on the "17" team and last season Malone was hurt with an hamstring.
2.) Even though both are Wrs one is a slot the other is flanker. We already have a good backup to Boyd in Erickson? Who backups Willis or Ross at this point. We have zero speed outside of those two.
3.) We're good at returner though with Erickson and Phillips. Not to mention Boyd, Bernard, Wilson, and Ross all are capable on returning kicks. We didn't need another returner.
Hopefully we stay healthy at WR and whomever is the 7th receiver doesn't matter but the lack of deep threats worry me.

(09-01-2019, 07:29 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I feel like we played 2 LB A LOT last year with 3 safeties. I'm fairly sure we did this against the Saints A LOT using Fej like a LB and they shredded us.

Not sure this is anything new.

New would have been...actually signing an external LB that was an upgrade. I'm not sure that doing nothing is a good strategy.

If running with a 3 Safety look was part of the plans, I would have thought that they would have kept an extra one on the roster.  They kept 4.

(09-01-2019, 08:16 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I think terrible is a bit strong. He was good enough to start 8 games for the Skins as a rookie. Posted a couple of 100 yard games. He also showed ability to catch the football. I'd agree with you if we were looking at Perine as a starter, but as a 3rd RB, I'd say he's pretty fantastic.


You have to compare him to who he's replacing, which is Josh Malone. Malone has 7 career catches for 75 yards playing for a bad team. Cooper had 25 catches for 190 yards for a really good team. In addition to being an all-pro returner.

Nice post Shake, I like to hear all sides instead of just the negative one.

Have to be fair to the players and say what they are good at and what they are bad at.

Perine and Cooper I think are great pickups.

(09-01-2019, 08:35 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: 1.) No one really produced on the "17" team and last season Malone was hurt with an hamstring.
2.) Even though both are Wrs one is a slot the other is flanker. We already have a good backup to Boyd in Erickson? Who backups Willis or Ross at this point. We have zero speed outside of those two.
3.) We're good at returner though with Erickson and Phillips. Not to mention Boyd, Bernard, Wilson, and Ross all are capable on returning kicks. We didn't need another returner.
Hopefully we stay healthy at WR and whomever is the 7th receiver doesn't matter but the lack of deep threats worry me.

1) People did produce on the '17 team. Malone finished 9th on the team in both catches and yards that year. Also, I'm not sure having a hamstring injury helps Malone's case.
2) We have 3 speed guys in Green, Willis and Ross. Isn't that about what we usually have?
3) Among all these returners, only one has had an all-pro year.

Not only is Cooper (possibly) the best return guy on our roster, he actually got on the field as a WR for a good team. What good is a speed guy who isn't good enough to get on the field? Especially when we have 3 other speed guys?

Damion Willis made Malone expendable.
It's that easy.
Willis showed a ability to use his body to get the ball.
I think his always being a underdog has given him
A bit a chip on his shoulder.
Malone has size and speed but it never
Translated to success on the field.
Perrine is a very under the radar signing
He never had a dominant run blocking OLINE
In Washington.
I'm sure he had to run vs. Stacked boxes cause frankly
The Skins haven't had a WR to loosen a defense

(09-01-2019, 09:00 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1) People did produce on the '17 team. Malone finished 9th on the team in both catches and yards that year. Also, I'm not sure having a hamstring injury helps Malone's case.
2) We have 3 speed guys in Green, Willis and Ross. Isn't that about what we usually have?
3) Among all these returners, only one has had an all-pro year.

Not only is Cooper (possibly) the best return guy on our roster, he actually got on the field as a WR for a good team. What good is a speed guy who isn't good enough to get on the field? Especially when we have 3 other speed guys?

Green ran a 4.5 40 and Willis ran a 4.48.  They aren't slow, by any stretch, but neither is really a speed guy.  Green is a proven deep threat when healthy, though.  

It is what it is, though.  Malone has a lot of upside, but never put it all together here.

(09-01-2019, 04:51 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Keeping two Nose Tackles and an extra QB bothers me right now.
Also Cooper for Malone is dumb we have good options at KR/PR if Erickson goes down and in the slot. Yet if Ross or Willis gets hurt we have zero backups. That's just a dumbass move no question about it.

Heh... Maybe we not going to a regular dime, but from a 4-3 to a 5-2...…. old school!

(09-01-2019, 09:00 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1) People did produce on the '17 team. Malone finished 9th on the team in both catches and yards that year. Also, I'm not sure having a hamstring injury helps Malone's case.
2) We have 3 speed guys in Green, Willis and Ross. Isn't that about what we usually have?
3) Among all these returners, only one has had an all-pro year.

Not only is Cooper (possibly) the best return guy on our roster, he actually got on the field as a WR for a good team. What good is a speed guy who isn't good enough to get on the field? Especially when we have 3 other speed guys?

1.) Who? Green and Dalton's numbers were complete shit, Laffell went down by 300 yards, Mixon had a terrible year, and Boyd was crap for until the end. 
1B) why should an injury be held against him? 
2.) Greens hurt and Ross just got back to practice; were thin there.
3.) Ok so. Erickson is a good returner and Phillips was an all American returner in college. We're good at that position.

Last point he averaged 7.6 yards per a touch and had 4 fumbles on 26 touches. His numbers were not impressive at all while he played.
Edit the fumbles were muffed punts and not from scrimmage. Still not good numbers

(09-01-2019, 06:09 PM)Joelist Wrote: They may be planning to go 4-2-5 with the fifth DB being a safety who is frequently up like a LB (Shawn Williams probably). We have the secondary depth to do this.

Crap...who was the guy from the Cardinals, back in '15 that was a safety playing LBer that everyone was raving about?

(09-01-2019, 07:03 PM)NKURyan Wrote: In a way I think it's actually a really outside-of-the-box, intriguing move. The coaching staff basically looked at their defensive roster, acknowledged the weakness at the linebacker position, and said screw it, let's just run extra guys out there on the line and in the secondary. I think a lot of coaches would've kept some of our bums at the position just because of the old "we have to have X number of linebackers" philosophy, but this... is kind of interesting.

The supposed tradeoff to this is that it leads you more open to being beat by TEs and RBs in short yardage and in the middle of the field but, ummm... that was happening anyways in our standard package and would've continued to happen this year. Might as well concede that point and focus on areas they can actually improve.

I've been excited to see the new offense all offseason, but I'm actually more interested in seeing our defensive approach now too.

Traditional LBers are slowly going out of style. You'd prefer to have a Josh Evans type (who could theoretically cover TEs) but slightly bigger safeties are probably a better option with how offenses are going these days. All it takes is a team or two to do it successfully and then everyone else starts copying it. 

More big, fast Dlinemen that can rush or drop into shallow zone, a couple LBers that can fill gaps/cover and then a bunch of DBs to cover all the WRs and RBs running all over the field. 

(09-01-2019, 08:35 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: 1.) No one really produced on the "17" team and last season Malone was hurt with an hamstring.
2.) Even though both are Wrs one is a slot the other is flanker. We already have a good backup to Boyd in Erickson? Who backups Willis or Ross at this point. We have zero speed outside of those two.
3.) We're good at returner though with Erickson and Phillips. Not to mention Boyd, Bernard, Wilson, and Ross all are capable on returning kicks. We didn't need another returner.
Hopefully we stay healthy at WR and whomever is the 7th receiver doesn't matter but the lack of deep threats worry me.

2. Split end, slot, flanker are things that are becoming outdated. Body type isn't as strict as it used to be for those positions. You want guys that can play multiple spots these days and their size isn't as important as it used to be with all the formations and movement that's going on with offenses now. 

3. So would you rather have a guy or two that's adequate...or a guy that's former All Pro and still young?

(09-01-2019, 10:53 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: 1.) Who? Green and Dalton's numbers were complete shit, Laffell went down by 300 yards, Mixon had a terrible year, and Boyd was crap for until the end. 
1B) why should an injury be held against him? 
2.) Greens hurt and Ross just got back to practice; were thin there.
3.) Ok so. Erickson is a good returner and Phillips was an all American returner in college. We're good at that position.

Last point he averaged 7.6 yards per a touch and had 4 fumbles on 26 touches. His numbers were not impressive at all while he played.

Andy Dalton  2017   3320 yds.  25 TD  12 Int. 86.6 rtg

AJ Green       2017   75 rec   1078 yds  14.4 ypc   8 TD. 

(09-01-2019, 11:14 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Crap...who was the guy from the Cardinals, back in '15 that was a safety playing LBer that everyone was raving about?

Deone Buchanan

(09-01-2019, 11:31 PM)McC Wrote: Andy Dalton  2017   3320 yds.  25 TD  12 Int.

AJ Green       2017   75 rec   1078 yds  14.4 ypc   8 TD.  86.6 rtg

Total dogshit....

Even if those stats were truly shit, Malone couldn't do anything. He's the cliche... Looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane. He just lost his job to a UDFA...

(09-01-2019, 11:31 PM)McC Wrote: Andy Dalton  2017   3320 yds.  25 TD  12 Int.  86.6 rtg

AJ Green       2017   75 rec   1078 yds  14.4 ypc   8 TD. 

And those numbers are terrible for those two. Green was on pace for 1700 yards in (before he got hurt) in 2016.

(09-01-2019, 11:26 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: 2. Split end, slot, flanker are things that are becoming outdated. Body type isn't as strict as it used to be for those positions. You want guys that can play multiple spots these days and their size isn't as important as it used to be with all the formations and movement that's going on with offenses now. 

3. So would you rather have a guy or two that's adequate...or a guy that's former All Pro and still young?

It's not body type it's athlectism that matters.
There not adequate there good.

(09-02-2019, 12:11 AM)Jakeypoo Wrote: It's not body type it's athlectism that matters.
There not adequate there good.

I can't really think of any Bengals receiver that isn't athletic in some way. 

Ok. Adequate to good. That's still short of All Pro.

(09-01-2019, 11:34 PM)jason Wrote: Total dogshit....

Even if those stats were truly shit, Malone couldn't do anything. He's the cliche... Looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane. He just lost his job to a UDFA...

1.) Those numbers were dogshit for Dalton and Green.
2.) What the guy was the only one that actually got separation during the preseason. Hell if it wasn't for Dalton under throwing him by 10 yards he would have had the best play of preseason. By the way the UDFA is a pretty good player.

(09-02-2019, 12:22 AM)Jakeypoo Wrote: 1.) Those numbers were dogshit for Dalton and Green.
2.) What the guy was the only one that actually got separation during the preseason. Hell if it wasn't for Dalton under throwing him by 10 yards he would have had the best play of preseason. By the way the UDFA is a pretty good player.

And I’m the one that got accused of obsessing over one play...