(09-02-2019, 09:24 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: They take free agents to Wendy's and ration deodorant. Ki-Jana Carter had to buy towels for guys to shower with because they used really small ones.

Those things are the definition of cheap.

All lies and fake/Old news. Carter really?????

I have not seen one player trash the organization the last 10 years.

(09-02-2019, 09:58 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: All lies and fake/Old news. Carter really?????

I have not seen one player trash the organization the last 10 years.

Our last QB literally threatened to retire because things were so bad lol

(09-02-2019, 09:58 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: All lies and fake/Old news. Carter really?????

I have not seen one player trash the organization the last 10 years.

Well, the Joseph story was from 2012 which is within 10 years. Here it is for your reading pleasure:

Johnathan Joseph: Former Cincinnati Bengals Corner Says Bengals Are a Cheap Team

'The first thing about Houston is it’s an organization run from a different perspective.[b] In Cincy, the team lives off money it earns from football. Houston’s owner has other business interests and he controls the money[/b]. Numerous things that go on such as the way Houston interacts with my family; we’re treated in a first-class way. They helped us when my wife lost our baby daughter in a miscarriage. But[b] they help with anything you ask of them[/b] because they are a very caring organization with[b] positive attitudes about its players[/b]. [b]In Cincy, we’re told how much Gatorade we could take home.[/b] In Houston we get what we request. You get soap and deodorant at your request. You don’t have a roommate on road trips.'


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1259186-jonathan-joseph-former-cincinnati-bengals-corner-says-bengals-are-a-cheap-team

Poll shows free agents don’t want to come to Cincinnati - from March 14, 2019 - Sports Illustrated

15 agents asked their players which teams they don’t want to join, and the Bengals finished in the bottom five.

Klemko was able to pinpoint some players’ aversions towards the Bengals, specifically.

“Cincinnati has a reputation for being ‘cheap,’ according to four different agents. ‘It’s just a poorly run, low-budget operation,’ another agent said.”

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/03/12/best-worst-destinations-free-agents-dallas-atlanta-buffalo-cleveland-detroit-oakland?utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social

(09-02-2019, 09:58 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: All lies and fake/Old news. Carter really?????

I have not seen one player trash the organization the last 10 years.

We've been down this road before.

"I've never heard of players trashing the way the organization is run"

*shows multiple players complaining about how the organization is run*

"Oh, those guys are just being crybabies!"

Speaking of Palmer:

Just a culmination of things. Some things that I had learned that ownership ... just some things that built up over time, and it was just time for a change.

“I have seen guys, run into guys back in San Diego, talked, texted … I think that anybody that’s ever played for that ownership knows what I was doing and why I was doing it."

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2012/11/23/3681754/carson-palmer-explains-his-reasons-for-leaving-cincinnati-kind-of

Former NFL WR T.J. Houshmandzadeh reveals just how cheap the Bengals used to be

Storytime with T.J. Houshmandzadeh about the early years with the Bengals: No bottled water or Gatorade, jockstrap issues and showing up to home games straight from the club pic.twitter.com/nvSX7STorM

— Herd w/Colin Cowherd (@TheHerd) July 9, 2018

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

“The year before I got there, [offensive tackle] Willie Anderson was telling me ,they didn't even have jock-straps. They would buy, get a bunch of used jock-straps, throw them in the middle of the locker room and say ‘here you go’.”

Thankfully, for the sake of hygiene and plain human decency, Willie Anderson and rookie running back Ki-Jana Carter purchased new ones for the entire team, but even this wasn’t the low point of the Bengals’ thriftiness.

Lack of on-the-field success[edit]

Since Brown became owner, the team has had 7 winning seasons out of 27 and has a winning percentage of .414 (182-255-2) in the regular season and .000 (0-7) in the playoffs.[24] In 2008, the Bengals set a record for the most games needed under one specific owner to attain 100 wins (288). In 2010, the team set a record for the fewest games needed to lose 200 (both considering and not considering playoffs) under one specific owner (314).[25]

The Bengals hold a number of distinctions for the time frame of Brown's ownership: It is the only team with three nine-game-or-more losing streaks.[26] It also holds six of the twenty-five 0-6 starts (24%)[27] and four of the thirteen 0-8 starts (31%) in that time.[28] The Bengals have gone winless in October nine different times in twenty-two years under five different head coaches (Sam Wyche, the first under his ownership, was originally hired by Paul Brown). Additionally, the team has obtained the NFL's longest active drought for playoff wins during his tenure, with their last playoff win occurring the year before Brown became owner in 1990.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Brown_(American_football_executive)

(09-02-2019, 09:56 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Also one of few teams in NFL that have own MRI machine on site at PBS.. That is not cheap by no means.

The machine is not cheap but the business decision is. Nfl teams are like most large business. They are self insured companies. It is much cheaper to do in house MRI's than to pay the fees at a hospital for lab techs, hospital fees, and all the other things they nickel and dime you for. I am sure in the Nfl that machine gets a lot of use so it is a savings long term. It is a nice feature that all teams should have but don't.

Mike Brown is a cheap-o and that's a fact. People who want to defend him should just admit that he is cheap and instead focus their energy on explaining why his cheapness is a good thing or completely justified.

(09-02-2019, 09:56 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Also one of few teams in NFL that have own MRI machine on site at PBS.. That is not cheap by no means.

How do you know the Bengals paid for that? Seems like the taxpayers pay most of the stadium lease:

“Hamilton County taxpayers have spent more than $920 million since 2000 as part of a deal to build and operate Paul Brown Stadium,” Amanda Seitz reported in January 2016. “By the time 2026 rolls around and the 26-year lease between the team and the county expires, the county will have spent more than $1.1 billion on the deal for the Bengals to play in Cincinnati.”

That’s $1.1 billion by the year 2026.

https://thegruelingtruth.com/football/nfl/mike-brown-is-making-fools-out-of-cincinnati-bengals-fans-and-the-city-of-cincinnati/

(09-02-2019, 03:22 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Will we ever get one of those good scouts?

Hell we can have 1 scout for all I care as long as he is good. 

Good scouts don't draft Ced, and Fisher and Ross...

Ced and Fisher were all Paul Alexander and his bottle of ketchup.  And then they wanted speed on the other side of AJ and made an Al Davis pick.  

(09-02-2019, 10:16 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well, the Joseph story was from 2012 which is within 10 years. Here it is for your reading pleasure:

Johnathan Joseph: Former Cincinnati Bengals Corner Says Bengals Are a Cheap Team

'The first thing about Houston is it’s an organization run from a different perspective.[b] In Cincy, the team lives off money it earns from football. Houston’s owner has other business interests and he controls the money[/b]. Numerous things that go on such as the way Houston interacts with my family; we’re treated in a first-class way. They helped us when my wife lost our baby daughter in a miscarriage. But[b] they help with anything you ask of them[/b] because they are a very caring organization with[b] positive attitudes about its players[/b]. [b]In Cincy, we’re told how much Gatorade we could take home.[/b] In Houston we get what we request. You get soap and deodorant at your request. You don’t have a roommate on road trips.'


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1259186-jonathan-joseph-former-cincinnati-bengals-corner-says-bengals-are-a-cheap-team

I'm sorry, but I've always found it funny that MB is cheap because he only allowed a guy he was paying millions of dollars a year to take two Gatorades home after practice and forced said player to buy his own deodorant.  I can just imagine telling the owner of my company that they're cheap because he doesn't buy deodorant for everyone and we can't take home cases of coffee from the break rooms.  Guys had legitimate gripes in the past with stuff like towels and jock straps, but Joseph is just a cry ass.  

Brown certainly cuts corners, but the fact remains that the Bengals are a bottom three team in total revenue.  It's hard to argue that one of the poorest teams in the league should be spending even with the teams that are middle of the pack in revenue.  Then you run into the catch 22 argument of "if Brown spent more in FA, the team would win more, but good FA's don't want to come here because of the history of losing."  

(09-02-2019, 11:23 PM)Whatever Wrote: I'm sorry, but I've always found it funny that MB is cheap because he only allowed a guy he was paying millions of dollars a year to take two Gatorades home after practice and forced said player to buy his own deodorant.  I can just imagine telling the owner of my company that they're cheap because he doesn't buy deodorant for everyone and we can't take home cases of coffee from the break rooms.  Guys had legitimate gripes in the past with stuff like towels and jock straps, but Joseph is just a cry ass.  

Brown certainly cuts corners, but the fact remains that the Bengals are a bottom three team in total revenue.  It's hard to argue that one of the poorest teams in the league should be spending even with the teams that are middle of the pack in revenue.  Then you run into the catch 22 argument of "if Brown spent more in FA, the team would win more, but good FA's don't want to come here because of the history of losing."  

So, why is the team a bottom third in revenue? Some Other small market teams are not

(09-02-2019, 10:19 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Poll shows free agents don’t want to come to Cincinnati - from March 14, 2019 - Sports Illustrated

15 agents asked their players which teams they don’t want to join, and the Bengals finished in the bottom five.

Klemko was able to pinpoint some players’ aversions towards the Bengals, specifically.

“Cincinnati has a reputation for being ‘cheap,’ according to four different agents. ‘It’s just a poorly run, low-budget operation,’ another agent said.”

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/03/12/best-worst-destinations-free-agents-dallas-atlanta-buffalo-cleveland-detroit-oakland?utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social

That’s fakes news. We have about 5 hard core homers that will never believe anything negative about the Bengals.

(09-02-2019, 10:19 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Poll shows free agents don’t want to come to Cincinnati - from March 14, 2019 - Sports Illustrated

15 agents asked their players which teams they don’t want to join, and the Bengals finished in the bottom five.

Klemko was able to pinpoint some players’ aversions towards the Bengals, specifically.

“Cincinnati has a reputation for being ‘cheap,’ according to four different agents. ‘It’s just a poorly run, low-budget operation,’ another agent said.”

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/03/12/best-worst-destinations-free-agents-dallas-atlanta-buffalo-cleveland-detroit-oakland?utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social

Funny thing about so called sources, if you can't name the agents why believe it to be true?

I thought Joseph left in 2008, so my mistake missed it by 2 years.

The sad thing about news today is most of it is lie. Again, give the names of the 4 agents or it did not happen

But congrats to you and others for perpetuating the MB is cheap rumor, that is helpful for the team????????????

(09-02-2019, 12:56 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Each year we see fans state MB is cheap and his goal is to pocket money from the salary cap revenue by under spending. Here are the facts, Bengals roll over 100% of unused cap money so they can spend it the following years. In other words, the money is used year after year for salaries and none goes to MB's pocket.

Here are the facts of teams in our division left over salary cap money according to Spotrac:

2016 - Browns $42 Million
Steelers - 5.7 million
Bengals - 5.6 million
Ravens - 4.3 million

2017 - Browns 59.5 million
Bengals - 10.1 million
Steelers 4.9 million
Ravens - 3.4 million

2018 - Browns 54 million
Steelers - 10.9 million
Bengals - 8.5 million'
Ravens - 8.3 million

2019 - Browns 37.6 million
Ravens - 9.4 million
Bengals - 7.1 million
Steelers - 3.2 million

What does it mean? Bengals rolled over 10.1 million or less every year
Browns far exceeded rest of division in less spending
Other 3 teams are all pretty close on spend

There is nothing here suggesting MB does not pay his players well, this pattern is consistent since the 2011 new collective bargaining agreement.

Can we put to bed MB is cheap? Cincinnati is a small market team (one of the smallest), yet year after year they spend with the mid and large market teams. The argument to suggest MB is cheap because he does not hire a GM is also a bad one. MB (I do not agree) feels he has as much football knowledge as any GM so he has filled the role with the help of Katie and Tobin in recent history. Argue philosophy on drafting and allocating the big bucks being spent, that is valid, but not the MB is cheap label.

Thoughts??

Mike also:

* Pays himself a GM salary
* Has a front office loaded with nepotistic no-talent family members who have little football skills
* Has charged players for Gatorade
* Won’t build a indoor practice facility
* Is known around the league as a cheapskate
* Avoids FA like the plague
* Nickle and dimes the county on stadium costs
* Has a “virtual” Hall of Fame on the team website because he’s too cheap to honor the players with a facility or emblazon the stadium with their names
* Has taken prospective employees to Wendy’s
* Flies FA’s in on coach
* Drove a Chevy Lumina for far too long

(09-02-2019, 11:23 PM)Whatever Wrote: I'm sorry, but I've always found it funny that MB is cheap because he only allowed a guy he was paying millions of dollars a year to take two Gatorades home after practice and forced said player to buy his own deodorant.  I can just imagine telling the owner of my company that they're cheap because he doesn't buy deodorant for everyone and we can't take home cases of coffee from the break rooms.  Guys had legitimate gripes in the past with stuff like towels and jock straps, but Joseph is just a cry ass.  

Brown certainly cuts corners, but the fact remains that the Bengals are a bottom three team in total revenue.  It's hard to argue that one of the poorest teams in the league should be spending even with the teams that are middle of the pack in revenue.  Then you run into the catch 22 argument of "if Brown spent more in FA, the team would win more, but good FA's don't want to come here because of the history of losing."  

The league also has revenue sharing. With modern day media options the number one goal is to run a successful, competitive franchise. Do that and fans from all over the world will flock to the team. The Seahawks, Saints, and Patriots were terrible in the 80’s and 90’s save for a couple of seasons. Build a solid, winning franchise, and voila, fans coming out of the woodwork. Mike Brown is too cheap to try to build a top tier organization.

(09-03-2019, 01:27 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Funny thing about so called sources, if you can't name the agents why believe it to be true?

I thought Joseph left in 2008, so my mistake missed it by 2 years.

The sad thing about news today is most of it is lie. Again, give the names of the 4 agents or it did not happen

But congrats to you and others for perpetuating the MB is cheap rumor, that is helpful for the team????????????

So you think Sports Illustrated posts fake articles because 'agents' they interviewed didn't attach their names?

Do you think Sports Illustrated just made up that 4 agents think the Bengals are cheap? I could post article after article that cites this.

There are articles out there that the Bengals flew Tony Siragusa in for a free agent visit 2nd class, etc.

(09-03-2019, 03:11 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote: The league also has revenue sharing. With modern day media options the number one goal is to run a successful, competitive franchise. Do that and fans from all over the world will flock to the team.  The Seahawks, Saints, and Patriots were terrible in the 80’s and 90’s save for a couple of seasons.  Build a solid, winning franchise, and voila, fans coming out of the woodwork.  Mike Brown is too cheap to try to build a top tier organization.

Not winning a playoff game in 28+ years definitely has something to do with our revenue being 3rd from the bottom in the NFL. We're not relevant. Most other teams have won 5+ playoff games since we last won 1.

Outside of some hardcore fans, most of the NFL knows nothing about us.