(09-23-2019, 09:51 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Into thinking a coaching change could actually cover up for other problems with this franchise.

The front office sold fans HARD that the hiring of ZT and a "New Dey" would result in winning. The players on the field weren't the problem, the way the front office conducts business isn't a problem - it was the coach.  

I never bought into it - but a lot of fans did. Look around at this team and the talent and scheme deficiencies are everywhere. If anyone is at fault for this mess it should be the front office and Duke Tobin for assembling a crap roster filled with holes.

Don't make the mistake of placing blame (ZT or players themselves) where it shouldn't be.

Perhaps I wasn't fooled...

(09-23-2019, 10:52 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: He needs to improve his accuracy a little. Although he's 2nd in passing yards, he's been inconsistent. Dropped balls, batted balls and not a lot of time in the pocket really hurts also. But, most of us know these things will improve. They have to if we are going to beat Pitt in their house Monday. Dalton get's a lot of unearned flack from what ZT calls the wolves. He's better than an avg QB, but has made some mistakes this year. He will get it together and just the return of AJ alone will change the way defenses play us. 

I was really hoping yesterday would define what type of team this would be going forward. We played good in Seattle, while horrible at home. Then Yesterday we played horrible in the first half, the good in the second. Depending on the outlook of the individual, we either are half great or half suck - but not definitive on either. So, I guess the evidence on which direction this team is going is left to be decided in Pittsburgh. 

Good analysis. Agree on all points. Imagine his numbers minus the drops and off target throws.

What I liked about yesterday was the adjustments at the half. The team didn't quit either. The Bills are a pretty good football team when their own inconsistent QB plays well. 

(09-23-2019, 09:59 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Yep. 

Don't get me wrong - this team DOES have some talent, but its not enough. Fans get blinded because they see guys like AJ Green, Joe Mixon, Ross, etc. The fact remains though, the foundation of this team is terrible. The offensive line sucks, the d line has played average, and the linebackers are garbage. 

If you dont think any of the above are important ask the Rams, Pats, Chiefs, etc. 

The Bengals philosophy on how to build a decent roster/team is completely backwards.

Which is what I post nearly every offseason and about 80% of the board calls me negative.

LB and offensive line are glaring weaknesses. Why not sign a Jordan Hicks and Saffold?

Instead the board generally talked about how they were all overpaid and how there were no free agents worth signing. Well the Bills signed 22 free agents and are 3-0.

(09-23-2019, 10:27 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Nice to see the abuse labeled at ML was not warranted and a fan admit it.
Oh wait, you did not say that, you just gave ZT an excuse to start 0-3 while making major coaching errors each week.

That's a great point. Coaching has absolutely been atleast half of the issue. The defense looks undisciplined at times. The offense looks predictable and calling 1 yard WR screens on 3rd and 10, won't cut it. I see nothing innovative in the scheme.

Then Ross has 2 good games, so what does ZT do? He moves Ross to a new position so he can start Tate over Willis.

(09-23-2019, 11:02 AM)Wyche Wrote: So Darrin Simmons had a bad game, the challenge was a bad call, he took points on the road (the FG), which most any coach in the NFL does, again, I'm not seeing horrible decisions by the HC.

I tell you one thing I DID see, "journalistic jargons".  

I did see some bad playcalls on both sides of the ball against SF, and we must have watched a different game at Seattle.

All of the items I mentioned were in yesterday's game alone.

I am just going off of the  history of the board when critiquing a HC, any issue is his responsibility as he is in charge of the team and teh coaching staff. At least, that is what I saw with ML every time he used a time out to these type of issues.

ZT had a bad coaching game yesterday and every week is making mistakes. The mistakes yesterday were critical and a big reason we lost the game in my humble opinion.

The front office didn't fool us into anything. We begged them for years to make a change at head coach and they finally gave us what we asked for. I'm not defending them but let's get facts straight.

Taylor was handed a bad of shit and asked to turn it into gold. Give the guy some time.

(09-23-2019, 11:14 AM)motoarch Wrote: The front office didn't fool us into anything.  We begged them for years to make a change at head coach and they finally gave us what we asked for.  I'm not defending them but let's get facts straight.

Taylor was handed a bad of shit and asked to turn it into gold.  Give the guy some time.

Very true. These things don't happen overnight. There was a lot of change and it will take a little bit longer to see the results.

This team has looked bad but could have easily gone 2-1.

The team no longer has Boling, Glenn, Redmond along the line. Without running game, I am surprised how well the passing game has gone thus far.

Fans were complaining about the defense. When I looked at TOP against the Bills, the fact that the Bengals took the lead is amazing. The defense was fatigued but kept the team in the game. I will say the team still needs to improve blocking and tackling.

(09-23-2019, 11:06 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Good analysis. Agree on all points. Imagine his numbers minus the drops and off target throws.

What I liked about yesterday was the adjustments at the half. The team didn't quit either. The Bills are a pretty good football team when their own inconsistent QB plays well. 

Their inconsistent QB is in his 2nd year, for ours to still be so inconsistent in his 9th says it all...

Allen is the exact type of QB we need. Big, strong, hard to take down, and can make plays when things break down. I was extremely impressed with him yesterday.

(09-23-2019, 10:25 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Um....you might wanna check the sports pages podge, he's 2nd in the entire league in passing yards.....

Aka... first loser!!!

Ain't good enough!!!

And a guy like AJ Green coming back isn't gonna open things up for the entire offense!!!

Put in Finley!!! Where's McCarron???

(09-23-2019, 09:55 AM)Big Boss Wrote: I said this months ago.  Zac Taylor basically inherited the exact same team as last year, but then lost his best LB (Burfict) and one of his best offensive linemen (Boling).  Then you add on all the other injuries they've had.  So technically, the roster he's working with is worse than last year.  Marvin may have been able to squeak by as best he could, because he has over a decade's experience as a head coach.  Taylor doesn't have that luxury.  

This does not absolve Taylor and the coaches of all blame, but when you're basically down to your 4th string LT, you're in bad shape.  This team lacks talent and depth, and it may take them years to be competitive again.  But I can tell you right now, so long as this team refuses to be more aggressive in free agency, it's going to be later rather than sooner.  Relying on draft picks and bottom-of-the-barrel free agents isn't going to cut it.

Agreed. Also ZT doesn't have AJ out there either, when at this point last year AJ, Boling, and Glenn were playing. Three big losses on offense to start the year off against three good teams.

(09-23-2019, 11:06 AM)Wyche Wrote: Good analysis. Agree on all points. Imagine his numbers minus the drops and off target throws.

What I liked about yesterday was the adjustments at the half. The team didn't quit either. The Bills are a pretty good football team when their own inconsistent QB plays well. 

The turnover and short field that led to the TD seemed to re-ignite the team. Before that, we did nothing.

(09-23-2019, 11:13 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: All of the items I mentioned were in yesterday's game alone.

I am just going off of the  history of the board when critiquing a HC, any issue is his responsibility as he is in charge of the team and teh coaching staff. At least, that is what I saw with ML every time he used a time out to these type of issues.

ZT had a bad coaching game yesterday and every week is making mistakes. The mistakes yesterday were critical and a big reason we lost the game in my humble opinion.

Agreed. It's a hodgepodge mix of a bunch of things causing these losses, but coaching is certainly one of the main items.

I think the offensive playcalling was very questionable. Changing Ross's position was questionable too.

(09-23-2019, 09:55 AM)Big Boss Wrote: I said this months ago.  Zac Taylor basically inherited the exact same team as last year, but then lost his best LB (Burfict) and one of his best offensive linemen (Boling).  Then you add on all the other injuries they've had.  So technically, the roster he's working with is worse than last year.  Marvin may have been able to squeak by as best he could, because he has over a decade's experience as a head coach.  Taylor doesn't have that luxury.  

This does not absolve Taylor and the coaches of all blame, but when you're basically down to your 4th string LT, you're in bad shape.  This team lacks talent and depth, and it may take them years to be competitive again.  But I can tell you right now, so long as this team refuses to be more aggressive in free agency, it's going to be later rather than sooner.  Relying on draft picks and bottom-of-the-barrel free agents isn't going to cut it.

He didn't lose Burfict, the team cut him. And didn't we have a whole draft and free agency to fill holes?

This team has to have more talent than the injury riddled team the second half of last season.

 

(09-23-2019, 12:04 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Their inconsistent QB is in his 2nd year, for ours to still be so inconsistent in his 9th says it all...

Allen is the exact type of QB we need. Big, strong, hard to take down, and can make plays when things break down. I was extremely impressed with him yesterday.

Oh yeah, kid's got juice. I was more referring to the Bills stout defense than anything. He's got the makings of a good one.

(09-23-2019, 11:13 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: All of the items I mentioned were in yesterday's game alone.

I am just going off of the  history of the board when critiquing a HC, any issue is his responsibility as he is in charge of the team and teh coaching staff. At least, that is what I saw with ML every time he used a time out to these type of issues.

ZT had a bad coaching game yesterday and every week is making mistakes. The mistakes yesterday were critical and a big reason we lost the game in my humble opinion.

Im holding judgement on ZT until end of the season. And by that I mean will he learn from mistakes (and successes) he has made so far, and in the upcoming games? Will he learn to adapt and call better type of plays in certain situations? Will he know when to throw a red flag, and use timeouts for all situational moments? 

Things like that is what fans should be watching for from here on out before getting too critical on him too early on. He is a rookie at this like all head coaches were at some point. But the good ones learn from their mistakes and successes, and build on it. 

The best we can hope for is that he does learn and adapt without being stubborn about it, while the FO does a much better job in fielding him a team for 2020, as this season is already pretty much over, especially if they lose at Pitt.

(09-23-2019, 11:13 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: All of the items I mentioned were in yesterday's game alone.

I am just going off of the  history of the board when critiquing a HC, any issue is his responsibility as he is in charge of the team and teh coaching staff. At least, that is what I saw with ML every time he used a time out to these type of issues.

ZT had a bad coaching game yesterday and every week is making mistakes. The mistakes yesterday were critical and a big reason we lost the game in my humble opinion.

Fair take, and you're right, ultimately it falls on his shoulders. I didn't see anything in the Seattle game or the Bills game that cost us a win. Just my own opinion. I referred to all games because of the part in your post about "3 weeks".

I think there were some critical lapses on John Ross' part, (didn't even get a hand on a good throw that should have been a TD, for example), and some questionable calls at the worst possible moments. I felt Vigil got the fumble, Tate didn't really hold, and Brown was held on a play where he had Allen in his grasp and a lineman literally tackled him off of Josh. He broke free and winds up hitting a critical 1st down late in the game. I feel like we made some adjustments at the half that got Mixon going, and cleaned up some stuff on defense. The defense as a whole was cleaned up from the SF game.

As to Marvin, it was time. 

(09-23-2019, 11:09 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: That's a great point. Coaching has absolutely been atleast half of the issue. The defense looks undisciplined at times. The offense looks predictable and calling 1 yard WR screens on 3rd and 10, won't cut it. I see nothing innovative in the scheme.

Then Ross has 2 good games, so what does ZT do? He moves Ross to a new position so he can start Tate over Willis.

Well, Willis wasn't producing, so.....

Ross' bad game was a result of things that have plagued him all year: drops.

No one had a good game against SF, Ross did get a long TD to boost his and Dalton's stats at the end of the game though.

(09-23-2019, 11:53 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: This team has looked bad but could have easily gone 2-1.

The team no longer has Boling, Glenn, Redmond along the line.   Without running game, I am surprised how well the passing game has gone thus far.

Fans were complaining about the defense.  When I looked at TOP against the Bills, the fact that the Bengals took the lead is amazing.  The defense was fatigued but kept the team in the game.  I will say the team still needs to improve blocking and tackling.

All very true.....

(09-23-2019, 01:10 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Im holding judgement on ZT until end of the season. And by that I mean will he learn from mistakes (and successes) he has made so far, and in the upcoming games? Will he learn to adapt and call better type of plays in certain situations? Will he know when to throw a red flag, and use timeouts for all situational moments? 

Things like that is what fans should be watching for from here on out before getting too critical on him too early on. He is a rookie at this like all head coaches were at some point. But the good ones learn from their mistakes and successes, and build on it. 

The best we can hope for is that he does learn and adapt without being stubborn about it, while the FO does a much better job in fielding him a team for 2020, as this season is already pretty much over, especially if they lose at Pitt.

I'm sure we'll have injuries in 2020 too.

I'm fairly sure the Bengals knew Boling was going to retire well ahead of the rest of the world.