For better or worse ZT has inherited a roster that simply
Has too many draft misses and not enough elite players
Take the drafts between 2014 and 2018. The thing that stands out
Is how many players on the D side they've Whiffed on

2014 Will Clarke
2015 Paul Dawson. Josh Shaw
2016. Nick Vigil.
2017 Jordan Willis Jordan Evans
2018. Malik Jefferson

All the above are busts plain and simple
5 no longer on the roster.
The jury is still out on Billings, Lawson, Glasgow
Bates. WillIiam Jackson still doesn't look like
The player he was 2 years ago.
Bates has regressed.
Nick Vigil is a bust
Brandon Wilson still hasn't made enough impact plays
Darius Phillips might be a late RD gem. But the truth is the Bengals
Have yet to draft a truly elite defensive Going
Back 5 drafts.
Hubbard is ascending. He's showing signs

The misses on offense are no secret and it's effect overall
2014 Bodine. Bust
2015 Ogbuehi Fisher extreme busts Kroft is a Bill.
2016 Core bust
2017 Malone bust
2018. Walton failure Price bust

No offensive players from 2014 on roster
Uzomah only holdover from 2015
2016. Boyd is really good. Not elite though
2017. Ross and Mixon seem to be cornerstones
2018. Tate is improving
But the swings and misses at C and Tackles has really
Hurt the franchise
All of a,sudden yourge resigning guys like Jerry and Smith
Who are on their last legs to compensate

But the worse part
Look at the franchise QBs Tobin passed on.

The coaching is questionable too. No doubt about that...especially on defense. But, the offense has been mediocre too.

All of the variables that made the 90's are coming back into play here.

Jackson, Bates, Hubbard, Billings, and Lawson are all good players. Yeah they need to do better at LB but the past couple of drafts have gifted some foundational Defensive players.
Also think Brown, Phillips, and Pratt have serious potential.

I like Lawson. I thought it was a really solId pick.but the truth is he hasn't Made a meaningful play in how long?
DE is quietly becoming a issue going into next year. Dunlap
Is showing his age now.

Yeah we almost busted on a entire Oline while using high draft picks. That is going to hurt you.

Obviously jury is out on Williams, but he is but one man.

Edit:
My posting history will reveal i wanted Jackson due to all of the busts because he can move around. I was mostly ignored or scoffed at.

With that said if/when we draft a QB he better be mobile.

There have been 107 Pro Bowlers drafted since the Bengals took Tyler Eifert with the 21st pick of the 2013 draft. The Bengals have drafted 0 of them.


EDIT: There have been 164 Pro Bowlers drafted since the Bengals took Andy Dalton with the 35th pick of the 2011 draft. The Bengals have drafted 1 of them. (Eifert, who has started 5 games the last 4 years.)

Reality in the draft is that of Free Agency.

This team is just not doing well at both.

Letting it sink in and stew is what makes one question being a "fan" of this team.

Since a child I've loved the Bengals name/helmet/city and some of their players throughout time... but...



Ownership sucks and it's not just Mike Brown famously running it into the ground.

When guys like Geno, AJ, and Dunlap ride off into the sunset we'll be living in the dark ages again because they have faith in Tobin.

(09-23-2019, 05:30 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: There have been 107 Pro Bowlers drafted since the Bengals took Tyler Eifert with the 21st pick of the 2013 draft. The Bengals have drafted 0 of them.

OUCH

(09-23-2019, 05:17 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I like Lawson. I thought it was a really solId pick.but the truth is he hasn't Made a meaningful play in how long?
DE is quietly becoming a issue going into next year. Dunlap
Is showing his age now

The issue with Lawson is he's basically a pass rush specialist because he can't hold up against the run. When you give up positive yards on 1st down you have less obvious passing situations which limits Lawson's snaps, like the 49ers game. He was doubtful at the being of the week to play with a hamstring issue which is why he probably didn't play a ton yesterday. 

I ask, was the 2019 draft any better?

We really have no idea about Jonah Williams at LT. Only 4th round pick OG Michael Jordan has earned a start. Look at how bad our LBers are and realize that Pratt hasn't shown enough to start. We drafted two RBs with extreme injury histories and they both got injured in pre-season.

It's not just the draft either, look at the free agent decisions. Letting Whit and Zeitler go. Zeitler could have been extended when DeCastro was for about $8M per, instead it's been a gaping hole. Re-signing Iloka over Nelson. Re-signing Hart for 3 year, 21M rather than looking for an upgrade. Re-signing Gio for top 15 back money, why?

(09-23-2019, 05:30 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: There have been 107 Pro Bowlers drafted since the Bengals took Tyler Eifert with the 21st pick of the 2013 draft. The Bengals have drafted 0 of them.


EDIT: There have been 164 Pro Bowlers drafted since the Bengals took Andy Dalton with the 35th pick of the 2011 draft. The Bengals have drafted 1 of them. (Eifert, who has started 5 games the last 4 years.)

This is a misleading post.
1) the pro bowl is nothing more than a popularity contest.
2.) We have had players who have had Pro Bowl caliber performances. Particularly Tyler Boyd and Joe Mixon last season.

(09-23-2019, 05:26 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: Yeah we almost busted on a entire Oline while using high draft picks. That is going to hurt you.

Obviously jury is out on Williams, but he is but one man.

Edit:
My posting history will reveal i wanted Jackson due to all of the busts because he can move around. I was mostly ignored or scoffed at.

With that said if/when we draft a QB he better be mobile.

I wanted Jackson just cause of the extra dimension he brings to a offense 
He can go off script and still burn a defense. Even if that defense is in perfect coverage Jackson can still hurt you 
AD just doesn't have the Inprovation skills as a QB.
Jackson would have serious injected some life in this offense 
Some  excitement.

(09-23-2019, 05:17 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I like Lawson. I thought it was a really solId pick.but the truth is he hasn't Made a meaningful play in how long?
DE is quietly becoming a issue going into next year. Dunlap
Is showing his age now.

1.) He has been hurt torn ACL last season and hamstring injury yesterday and against the 49ers.
2.) Dunlap is not showing his age he is actually having a good season.
3.) How? We have Lawson and Hubbard as young players who have produced. Dunlap is still good and Brown has promise. I'm never against adding another edge player but it's not a crucial need.

(09-23-2019, 05:12 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Jackson, Bates, Hubbard, Billings, and Lawson are all good players. Yeah they need to do better at LB but the past couple of drafts have gifted some foundational Defensive players.
Also think Brown, Phillips, and Pratt have serious potential.

I definitely think Phillips has some great upside. Haven't seen enough of Pratt to judge yet but MAN I saw him get absolutely manhandled yesterday on one particular play. Didn't seem to hear his name much, but hopefully he can inject some life into the LB corps. They need it bad.

(09-23-2019, 05:54 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I definitely think Phillips has some great upside. Haven't seen enough of Pratt to judge yet but MAN I saw him get absolutely manhandled yesterday on one particular play. Didn't seem to hear his name much, but hopefully he can inject some life into the LB corps. They need it bad.

He also blew up a running play on the edge but you're right to little to judge on him right now. Plus LB draft history hasn't gone our way.

(09-23-2019, 06:01 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: He also blew up a running play on the edge but you're right to little to judge on him right now. Plus LB draft history hasn't gone our way.

That might just be the understatement of all time.

I think the Bengals need to just trade out of the first round....

(09-23-2019, 05:30 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: There have been 107 Pro Bowlers drafted since the Bengals took Tyler Eifert with the 21st pick of the 2013 draft. The Bengals have drafted 0 of them.


EDIT: There have been 164 Pro Bowlers drafted since the Bengals took Andy Dalton with the 35th pick of the 2011 draft. The Bengals have drafted 1 of them. (Eifert, who has started 5 games the last 4 years.)

(09-23-2019, 05:49 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: This is a misleading post.
1) the pro bowl is nothing more than a popularity contest.
2.) We have had players who have had Pro Bowl caliber performances. Particularly Tyler Boyd and Joe Mixon last season.

All-Pro Players get Pro Bowl snubbed....Makes it really hard to take it seriously.

(09-23-2019, 05:17 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I like Lawson. I thought it was a really solId pick.but the truth is he hasn't Made a meaningful play in how long?
DE is quietly becoming a issue going into next year. Dunlap
Is showing his age now.

The guy from Ohio State looks like the best player in the draft future replacement for Dunlap.

(09-23-2019, 07:25 PM)Synric Wrote: All-Pro Players get Pro Bowl snubbed....Makes it really hard to take it seriously.

Bengals haven't drafted a 1st team All-Pro since 2010. (Atkins)

Before that it was Whitworth in 2006.

So the Bengals have only drafted 2 1st Team All-Pros since they drafted Chad Johnson in 2001, 18 seasons ago.

- - - - - - - - - - -

I actually started making an All-Pro stat post along the lines of the Pro Bowl one, but it's much harder to do since All-Pro is an AP thing rather than an NFL thing. Then combine that with having to then research the players by year drafted, and make sure I don't count duplicates... it was more work than I was willing to put in right now.