It's no revelation that our LBer play has been below average, to say the least. They have a good play here and there but overall they miss way to many tackles, take bad angles, get washed out by blockers, seem confused on pass coverage, just sren't fast enough and get burnt.... a lot.

We can't just make them faster, quicker, be more athletic, show more football awareness and so on.

Is there a fix ?

It seems we're going with two LBer sets a lot. Would picking up a another LBer and playing Pratt in a 3 LBer set help ? It seems we're getting burnt with outside runs a lot and our current backers lack the sideline to sideline speed to get there. Our DB's for the most part leave a lot to be desired in open field tackling.

What say you ?

Better players, plain and simple. For some reason this team cannot draft LB's. Or sign good ones. Give Pratt a pass as he is new but we should have 3 good LB's and at least 1 good reserve and we have nothing. Vigil may be a reasonable reserve but even that is questionable.

You can't take even the best plow horse and make him a race horse.

(09-25-2019, 10:44 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: It's no revelation that our LBer play has been below average, to say the least. They have a good play here and there but overall they miss way to many tackles, take bad angles, get washed out by blockers, seem confused on pass coverage, just sren't fast enough and get burnt.... a lot.

We can't just make them faster, quicker, be more athletic, show more football awareness and so on.

Is there a fix ?

It seems we're going with two LBer sets a lot. Would picking up a another LBer and playing Pratt in a 3 LBer set help ? It seems we're getting burnt with outside runs a lot and our current backers lack the sideline to sideline speed to get there. Our DB's for the most part leave a lot to be desired in open field tackling.

What say you ?

While Pratt didn't have an all-star showing last week, one thing I did see him do was set the edge which netted in a few run stuffs.  He also got held and prevented from tackling their RB on what's deemed his worst play, but as we all saw the Bills didn't get holding calls.  

(09-25-2019, 10:51 AM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: While Pratt didn't have an all-star showing last week, one thing I did see him do was set the edge which netted in a few run stuffs.  He also got held and prevented from tackling their RB on what's deemed his worst play, but as we all saw the Bills didn't get holding calls.  

I'd like to see more of Pratt. It sure seems it couldn't get worse ?

Off topic - there was a Bills pass play which IIRC went for a pretty big gain, where Geno was getting the dog $hit held out of him. The Olineman was fully behind him holding on for dear life. Should be used as ref training film ! How do they miss that ? and it was right out in the open.

(09-25-2019, 11:06 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'd like to see more of Pratt. It sure seems it couldn't get worse ?

Off topic - there was a Bills pass play which IIRC went for a pretty big gain, where Geno was getting the dog $hit held out of him. The Olineman was fully behind him holding on for dear life. Should be used as ref training film ! How do they miss that ? and it was right out in the open.

I think you might be getting wish this Monday, more Pratt!

There’s no quick fix this season. Got to hope Pratt develops , draft them next year and sign one in free agency. I’m still fine with Pittsburgh getting Bush, LT is a way more important position and harder to fine than linebacker. LT was just as big a need as linebacker. Glenn can’t stay healthy and his career might be over with this concussion.

Pratt has actually been one of the better rookie linebackers this year, the issue is rookie LB's tend to take a while to get good. That will make the unit better later this season, but it won't be good this year.

I wonder how much better our defense looks if they all learned how to tackle properly.

I think we need faster and/or more instinctive and aggressive LB's, or at least 1 really good one who can help the rest of them step up. Those guys just flat out get beat in most ways. Bad angles, diving at ppls feet, missing tackles, blowing coverages. Its every game and it has carried over from last season. I would play Pratt as much as possible at this point. Let him get reps and see if he develops.

Best thing to do is run a 6-5. Or a 5-6. 5 down lineman and 6 DBs, or vice versa.

Regarding personnel, Pratt needs to play more.
I don't know if there's a great option to add in FA at this point such that both Brown and Vigil don't start though.
I haven't paid enough attention to the scheme to figure out of perhaps there could be improvements made there.

As for the future, I would look to move on from Vigil in the offseason since he will hit FA. Preston Brown could also be cut after this year, as his dead cap would only be $1.6 mill. There are a plethora of LBs in FA next year I'm interested in, highlighted by Cory Littleton (if Rams allow him to).

Preston has 2 good games out of 3. Vigil is bad his best game was last week against Bills still below average. Preston while a decent LB isnt enough to overcome bad Vigil. Pratt looked confused out there Sunday

Marvin came in as a defensive and especially LB guru and failed over and over again to draft one who turned out decent. Burfict was the only one who played well and he was a boom or bust guy with high risk. He definitely left the cupboard bare in his supposedly specialty area. Its pretty sad imo.

It's pretty easy. Stop expecting scrubs like Jordan Evans and Nick Vigil to take some imaginary step that'll never be there. Don't resign Preston Brown to 21 million when you know what you have in him regardless of the fact he was injured last year. He's not going to be faster and be better in coverage just cause he's healthy. Go out in FA and sign some legit upgrades, regardless of how much it'll cost. They should've drafted Blake Cashman in the 2nd round over Sample. Would've still been a reach but a more reasonable one and Cashman has looked great with the Jets.

Pratt isn't going to fix this problem but I'd still like to see him get the bulk of snaps moving forward. Even when he misses he's at least still in the play.

(09-25-2019, 10:44 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: It's no revelation that our LBer play has been below average, to say the least. They have a good play here and there but overall they miss way to many tackles, take bad angles, get washed out by blockers, seem confused on pass coverage, just sren't fast enough and get burnt.... a lot.

We can't just make them faster, quicker, be more athletic, show more football awareness and so on.

Is there a fix ?

It seems we're going with two LBer sets a lot. Would picking up a another LBer and playing Pratt in a 3 LBer set help ? It seems we're getting burnt with outside runs a lot and our current backers lack the sideline to sideline speed to get there. Our DB's for the most part leave a lot to be desired in open field tackling.

What say you ?

I think you answered it, more Pratt and add in another Linebacker. 

Didn't think Reynolds played terrible but still think we should add another one. Vigil played better this game and so did
Preston Brown than the Niners game but that isn't saying much and they are still slow. Pratt will only grow with more 
playing time, give it to him. He will make mistakes cause he is a rookie but Preston and Vigil are making them anyways.

(09-25-2019, 11:39 AM)bengaloo Wrote: Marvin came in as a defensive and especially LB guru and failed over and over again to draft one who turned out decent. Burfict was the only one who played well and he was a boom or bust guy with high risk. He definitely left the cupboard bare in his supposedly specialty area. Its pretty sad imo.

Marvin had so much  talent at Baltimore that whole cast of players made him look smarter than he really was.
Lewis ....Boulware...
Ozzie is a great judge of talent 
Lewis wasn't the defensive guru he was made out to be 

Bring in someone from outside the organization to advise Tobin on what a good LB is. Or just fire Tobin and hire more scouts.

only thing you can do right now is trade away draft picks for a player.... which might be something if we were contending and just lost a guy.

there isn't any upgrades sitting on the street. So you turn to the draft next year as being 0-3 is not the time to give up draft picks for a player.

(09-25-2019, 10:50 AM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: Better players, plain and simple. For some reason this team cannot draft LB's. Or sign good ones. Give Pratt a pass as he is new but we should have 3 good LB's and at least 1 good reserve and we have nothing. Vigil may be a reasonable reserve but even that is questionable.

You can't take even the best plow horse and make him a race horse.

Pretty much this.

We need better players and to be careful not to keep cycling in new versions of the players who were not good enough in the first place.

(09-25-2019, 10:44 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: It's no revelation that our LBer play has been below average, to say the least. They have a good play here and there but overall they miss way to many tackles, take bad angles, get washed out by blockers, seem confused on pass coverage, just sren't fast enough and get burnt.... a lot.

We can't just make them faster, quicker, be more athletic, show more football awareness and so on.

Is there a fix ?

It seems we're going with two LBer sets a lot. Would picking up a another LBer and playing Pratt in a 3 LBer set help ? It seems we're getting burnt with outside runs a lot and our current backers lack the sideline to sideline speed to get there. Our DB's for the most part leave a lot to be desired in open field tackling.

What say you ?

We for sure need a dominate linebacker and to date they have not found one that fits here and that is a problem,Pitt is going to be throwing to the tightends all night and that will just kill us.To beat them we have to score at least 30