(10-05-2015, 02:39 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: Excellent point! I completely forgot about that. 



Rodgers plays everyone that way. Something about him. I never really understood how good he was until I read about his training regiment. Then I watched more and more of him. He just does things, differently, even more so than how Peyton/Brady do it. 

Rodgers is just as smart as them, and is mobile, can scramble for positive yards or launch deadly accurate passes while on the run.  He's the best QB I've ever seen in my life.  All due props to Brady and Manning, but Rodgers is the best there's ever been.  I can hear Charley Daniels playin the fiddle every time he does something entirely unnecessary like snap off a perfect 50 yard TD strike in mid stride while scrambling from pressure.  It's just absurd how good he is.

(10-05-2015, 05:50 AM)Savagehenry54 Wrote: Rodgers is just as smart as them, and is mobile, can scramble for positive yards or launch deadly accurate passes while on the run.  He's the best QB I've ever seen in my life.  All due props to Brady and Manning, but Rodgers is the best there's ever been.  I can hear Charley Daniels playin the fiddle every time he does something entirely unnecessary like snap off a perfect 50 yard TD strike in mid stride while scrambling from pressure.  It's just absurd how good he is.

Agreed. Also my favorite QB in Madden.

https://vine.co/v/e2eQiUvQMdH

Did you know that it took until his 6th season before Peyton Manning was able to put together at least 4 consecutive games with over a 100 rating?

Just sayin'.

(10-05-2015, 12:08 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: Dalton would have to throw up epic numbers to ever be considered in MVP discussion. Let's face the fact, Dalton is not a pretty pick for MVP and won't ever be until the Bengals A, become a household name or B, win playoff games. It just won't happen.

well by looking at articles in the NFL, i will have to disagree with you on MVP discussion.. Dalton is already being praised big time nationally and since QB's win it a high amount of time.. he has a edge over other positions.

As for playoffs.. i believe the voting stops at end of regular season.. so if im correct playoffs don;t matter... 

Did you know that Dalton has the 10th highest career QB rating of all active QBs?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_active.htm

(10-05-2015, 10:20 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Did you know that Dalton has the 10th highest career QB rating of all active QBs?  

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_active.htm

And that he's 16th if you count ALL QBs throughout NFL history (minimum 1500 atts)?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm

(10-05-2015, 10:20 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Did you know that Dalton has the 10th highest career QB rating of all active QBs?  

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_active.htm

Once he gets ahead of Schaub, that's one hell of an impressive list ahead of him.

Schaub actually isn't a terrible QB, but it sounds a lot better being able to say "Andy only has a lower passer rating than Rodgers, Brady, Romo, Roethlisberger, Ryan, Rivers, Brees, and Manning" rather than "Matt Schaub has a higher career rating than Andy"

WTS, Russell Wilson will hit the attempt threshold by the end of the year, so Andy will likely be 11th. Still all great QBs ahead of him (other than Schaub arguably).

Andy is 20th in total passing yards by active players

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_yds_active.htm

19th in passing TDs by active players

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_td_active.htm

Passer rating is a stupid, made up stat that means nothing and it's all about the volume. No ratios because that's just bullshit efficiency speak. Get your per game, per pass, per anything shit out of here, we need raw volume to determine how good a QB is, and look no further than that awesome yardage list. Jason Campbell? Jay Cutler? E.L.I.T.E.

(10-05-2015, 10:28 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Once he gets ahead of Schaub, that's one hell of an impressive list ahead of him.

Schaub actually isn't a terrible QB, but it sounds a lot better being able to say "Andy only has a lower passer rating than Rodgers, Brady, Romo, Roethlisberger, Ryan, Rivers, Brees, and Manning" rather than "Matt Schaub has a higher career rating than Andy"

WTS, Russell Wilson will hit the attempt threshold by the end of the year, so Andy will likely be 11th. Still all great QBs ahead of him (other than Schaub arguably).

I should have added the disclaimer Active "Starting" QBs.  Just wanted to put in perspective his career numbers compared to all the other starters in the NFL.  

(10-05-2015, 10:35 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Andy is 20th in total passing yards by active players

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_yds_active.htm

19th in passing TDs by active players

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_td_active.htm

Passer rating is a stupid, made up stat that means nothing and it's all about the volume. No ratios because that's just bullshit efficiency speak. Get your per game, per pass, per anything shit out of here, we need raw volume to determine how good a QB is, and look no further than that awesome yardage list. Jason Campbell? Jay Cutler? E.L.I.T.E.

Other than Stafford, Dalton is 3 years younger than the youngest player above him on that list.  And Stafford has 2 years on Dalton.  

I was just wondering: what if Dalton continues to play this way all season, but in the first playoff game, he plays like he did in previous playoff games and we lose? He ends the regular season with a 100+ QB rating, but plays poorly yet again in the playoffs. What do the Bengals do? Or what SHOULD they do?

Prior to this season, I was at the point that if Dalton had another season like the previous 4 (inconsistent regular season, poor playoff performance), then I would jump on the "we need a new QB" bandwagon. It's only 4 games, but Dalton looks like just a different QB so even now it's hard to fathom he'll play poorly in the playoffs. Yet, if he does ...

I honestly don't know where I'd fall. It might just come down to the question of who's available?

(10-05-2015, 10:38 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: I should have added the disclaimer Active "Starting" QBs.  Just wanted to put in perspective his career numbers compared to all the other starters in the NFL.  

Yep, his career numbers actually aren't bad at all. He hasn't been as good as the great QBs around the league (until this year of course), but that's why I always thought people were ridiculous that made comments calling him garbage and whatnot.

(10-05-2015, 10:41 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Other than Stafford, Dalton is 3 years younger than the youngest player above him on that list.  And Stafford has 2 years on Dalton.  

Haha, yeah I know, I was just throwing that one out there for ol' Brownshoe. I didn't want him to be alone in trashing passer rating.

(10-05-2015, 10:44 AM)PhilHos Wrote: I was just wondering: what if Dalton continues to play this way all season, but in the first playoff game, he plays like he did in previous playoff games and we lose? He ends the regular season with a 100+ QB rating, but plays poorly yet again in the playoffs. What do the Bengals do? Or what SHOULD they do?

Prior to this season, I was at the point that if Dalton had another season like the previous 4 (inconsistent regular season, poor playoff performance), then I would jump on the "we need a new QB" bandwagon. It's only 4 games, but Dalton looks like just a different QB so even now it's hard to fathom he'll play poorly in the playoffs. Yet, if he does ...

I honestly don't know where I'd fall. It might just come down to the question of who's available?

No, you basically HAVE to keep him for at least 1 more year after that. His cap hit is only $13.1 million and still would carry a $7.2 dead money hit in 2016. If he continues his regular season play as he has been for an entire year, even if he has a Browns 2.0 game in the playoffs, you have to stick with it for another season at those numbers, that's absurd value at that point.

(10-05-2015, 10:41 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Other than Stafford, Dalton is 3 years younger than the youngest player above him on that list.  And Stafford has 2 years on Dalton.  

I have stated for years NFL QB's need time to develop. If you look at the greats, they do not peak at age 25, they are good and keep getting better. Manning struggled early in his career being consistent. Ben R. peaked 3 years ago, he had always been very good, then he went to great.

AD is still young by QB standards for seasoned vets in the NFL. Each game, each year he is gaining experience and he is working on his techniques. One thing AD rarely gets credit for in my opinion is his football IQ for his age.

It always amazed me when some fans or so called experts wrote AD off. I saw some state adamantly AD would never be elite, he would always be average or worse. I am not saying he becomes elite, but he is not average, he is above average and has proven it early on in his career by starting and winning versus backing up a vet QB and learning. He had no learning curb which is a luxury, but he still performed.

(10-05-2015, 10:50 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Yep, his career numbers actually aren't bad at all. He hasn't been as good as the great QBs around the league (until this year of course), but that's why I always thought people were ridiculous that made comments calling him garbage and whatnot.


Haha, yeah I know, I was just throwing that one out there for ol' Brownshoe. I didn't want him to be alone in trashing passer rating.


No, you basically HAVE to keep him for at least 1 more year after that. His cap hit is only $13.1 million and still would carry a $7.2 dead money hit in 2016. If he continues his regular season play as he has been for an entire year, even if he has a Browns 2.0 game in the playoffs, you have to stick with it for another season at those numbers, that's absurd value at that point.

Well, like I said, I don't think anyone will be available that either A) is obviously, or at least arguably, better than Dalton or B) have potential to be better than Dalton. Then you also could have the issue of new coaching staff: Lewis may quit after another playoff loss, Hue may have another HC job, etc. 

With that said, what would you WANT? A new QB or give AD one more chance or at least keep him until something better is available?

(10-05-2015, 10:44 AM)PhilHos Wrote: I was just wondering: what if Dalton continues to play this way all season, but in the first playoff game, he plays like he did in previous playoff games and we lose? He ends the regular season with a 100+ QB rating, but plays poorly yet again in the playoffs. What do the Bengals do? Or what SHOULD they do?

Prior to this season, I was at the point that if Dalton had another season like the previous 4 (inconsistent regular season, poor playoff performance), then I would jump on the "we need a new QB" bandwagon. It's only 4 games, but Dalton looks like just a different QB so even now it's hard to fathom he'll play poorly in the playoffs. Yet, if he does ...

I honestly don't know where I'd fall. It might just come down to the question of who's available?

The only way I would even think of replacing Dalton is if he performed so horribly that the team didn't even make the playoffs.  If he has an mvp-caliber regular season and tanks in the playoffs, Marvin is the one that should be replaced.  

(10-05-2015, 10:52 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I have stated for years NFL QB's need time to develop. If you look at the greats, they do not peak at age 25, they are good and keep getting better. Manning struggled early in his career being consistent. Ben R. peaked 3 years ago, he had always been very good, then he went to great.

AD is still young by QB standards for seasoned vets in the NFL. Each game, each year he is gaining experience and he is working on his techniques. One thing AD rarely gets credit for in my opinion is his football IQ for his age.

It always amazed me when some fans or so called experts wrote AD off. I saw some state adamantly AD would never be elite, he would always be average or worse. I am not saying he becomes elite, but he is not average, he is above average and has proven it early on in his career by starting and winning versus backing up a vet QB and learning. He had no learning curb which is a luxury, but he still performed.

Heck, didn't Peyton and Brady have their best (record breaking) seasons just a few years ago after they've been in the league for over 10 years?

(10-05-2015, 10:54 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Well, like I said, I don't think anyone will be available that either A) is obviously, or at least arguably, better than Dalton or B) have potential to be better than Dalton. Then you also could have the issue of new coaching staff: Lewis may quit after another playoff loss, Hue may have another HC job, etc. 

With that said, what would you WANT? A new QB or give AD one more chance or at least keep him until something better is available?

This may sound crazy, but there isn't a QB I'd take over Andy next year (assuming he plays this way throughout all of 2015 except the playoffs) if we're considering the salary cap.

I'd just assume the playoff meltdown was a fluke after a great year and I'd definitely want to see him again in 2016. Call me stupid or whatever else, but give me 2015-Andy Dalton for $13 million over any of the guys making these $20+ hits.

Andy playing at this level for $13 mil plus another $7+ million in other players is worth more to me than Aaron Rodgers or Philip Rivers. Who knows, maybe getting an elite LB in free agency with that extra dough would help put us over the top too.

(10-05-2015, 10:52 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I have stated for years NFL QB's need time to develop. If you look at the greats, they do not peak at age 25, they are good and keep getting better. Manning struggled early in his career being consistent. Ben R. peaked 3 years ago, he had always been very good, then he went to great.

AD is still young by QB standards for seasoned vets in the NFL. Each game, each year he is gaining experience and he is working on his techniques. One thing AD rarely gets credit for in my opinion is his football IQ for his age.

It always amazed me when some fans or so called experts wrote AD off. I saw some state adamantly AD would never be elite, he would always be average or worse. I am not saying he becomes elite, but he is not average, he is above average and has proven it early on in his career by starting and winning versus backing up a vet QB and learning. He had no learning curb which is a luxury, but he still performed.

And outside of last season, Dalton's QB rating had improved each season.  Not sure why people were so quick to write him off as a lost cause.

(10-05-2015, 10:44 AM)PhilHos Wrote: I was just wondering: what if Dalton continues to play this way all season, but in the first playoff game, he plays like he did in previous playoff games and we lose? He ends the regular season with a 100+ QB rating, but plays poorly yet again in the playoffs. What do the Bengals do? Or what SHOULD they do?

Prior to this season, I was at the point that if Dalton had another season like the previous 4 (inconsistent regular season, poor playoff performance), then I would jump on the "we need a new QB" bandwagon. It's only 4 games, but Dalton looks like just a different QB so even now it's hard to fathom he'll play poorly in the playoffs. Yet, if he does ...

I honestly don't know where I'd fall. It might just come down to the question of who's available?

I think it depends on how AD plays in the playoff game. A QB can play well and lose the game if others don't play well.

But, let's hope we start making noise in the playoffs and it becomes a non issue.