Here is what I believe, and why the Bengals are in trouble.

Marvin Lewis had Mike Browns ear. He could get stuff done. Troy Blackburn and Duke Tobin resented that. Starting in 2014 these guys started to have more say. That's when the draft busts started. Bengals had VERY strong drafts for a while. Then suddenly, that stopped.
Dennard
Ogbuehi
Jackson
Ross
Price
and now Williams

Thats a horrible stretch. SO what changed?

Now they hire Zac Taylor. Why him over Eric Bienemy? IMO Bienemy is more familiar with Cincy and knew things had to change. Zac being a young QB coach, was "like what the heck?"

He's in a no lose situation. If they suck its because of the personel. If he can fix it, he's a legend. Because of his age. Tobin/Blackburn overrule him. Thats why they didn't hire Aubrey Pleasant. I'm going to blame Blackburn.

(10-01-2019, 10:59 AM)BengalsGenius Wrote: Here is what I believe, and why the Bengals are in trouble.

Marvin Lewis had Mike Browns ear. He could get stuff done. Troy Blackburn and Duke Tobin resented that. Starting in 2014 these guys started to have more say. That's when the draft busts started. Bengals had VERY strong drafts for a while. Then suddenly, that stopped.
Dennard
Ogbuehi
Jackson
Ross
Price
and now Williams

Thats a horrible stretch. SO what changed?

Now they hire Zac Taylor. Why him over Eric Bienemy? IMO Bienemy is more familiar with Cincy and knew things had to change. Zac being a young QB coach, was "like what the heck?"

He's in a no lose situation. If they suck its because of the personel. If he can fix it, he's a legend. Because of his age. Tobin/Blackburn overrule him. Thats why they didn't hire Aubrey Pleasant. I'm going to blame Blackburn.

Think a few of those Draft picks are yet to be seen on how good they are. Namely Will Jax, Price, Ross and especially Jonah.

I just think that we need to delve into Free Agency and add top players at positions of need more.

The Draft is a crap shoot, always has been. In FA you get proven NFL players.

Agree on Troy though, thought his words this Offseason were very telling.

Marvin was horrible at game management. Scheme wise he was decent top 10. What we have with Taylor is the opposite of Marvin horrible schematically but good in game management. With Marvin's problem your competitive. With Taylor we have Dave Shula 2.0

My management theory is the same but different. Remember that cartoon about Mike Brown and football? Remember when he was sitting around in that pumpkin patch and thought that The Great Pumpkin would show up and just give him everything? Now The Great Pumpkin never showed up but Mike still waited for it to happen every damn year. Then, with great confidence Mike would run to kick a football and once again the ball would get pulled and Mike would fall in the dirt. My management theory is that Mike Brown can’t run a winning football organization because he’s a real blockhead.

Folks most likely know I was one of Marvin's biggest fans in this forum, but the time had come to part ways. But I will say Marvin Lewis' stock rises every week the current Bengal team plays. Maybe the Browns will see the light and bring him back in an advisory role.

(10-01-2019, 01:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks most likely know I was one of Marvin's biggest fans in this forum, but the time had come to part ways. But I will say Marvin Lewis' stock rises every week the current Bengal team plays. Maybe the Browns will see the light and bring him back in Duke Tobin's role.

Fixed.

I dont feel the problem is talent besides for oline and LB we are pretty stacked at most positions. Taylor in no way shape or form is head coach material. Dont even feel he's offensive coordinator material. I hate to say it but Piston's is right.

(10-01-2019, 01:43 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: I dont feel the problem is talent besides for oline and LB we are pretty stacked at most positions. Taylor in no way shape or form is head coach material. Dont even feel he's offensive coordinator material. I hate to say it but Piston's is right.

It's too early to tell about Zac as a HC, but it really seems that being HC and calling offensive plays is too much for him to handle right now.  I would give Callahan the play calling duties and have Zac focus on being an overseer.

(10-01-2019, 01:43 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: I dont feel the problem is talent besides for oline and LB we are pretty stacked at most positions. Taylor in no way shape or form is head coach material. Dont even feel he's offensive coordinator material. I hate to say it but Piston's is right.

I really think that with better playcalling, teams could tee off against us. Keep them off balance so if they blitz, we'll beat it.

Some of the OC's we've had in past years would run quick slants against blitzes, etc. TE screens.

We do none of that.

This is in no way an innovative offense. Honestly though...ZT was a bad OC at UC. He was worse than Lazor in Miami. We can just keep explaining those failures away. Blaming players, etc. Or we can just realize he's not some brilliant offensive mind.

I was doing some research. Pete Brown (Mikes brother) was in charge of player personel until his death in 2017. Paul Brown (Mikes Son) now has that role. This could be as simple as Paul Brown sucks. I just cant get over the lack of effort being put into the offensive line. I think an upgrade of Hart/Smith would be simple.

(10-01-2019, 01:43 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: I dont feel the problem is talent besides for oline and LB we are pretty stacked at most positions. Taylor in no way shape or form is head coach material. Dont even feel he's offensive coordinator material. I hate to say it but Piston's is right.

Sorry, but I disagree that we are stacked at most positions.

As I watched last night's game, I saw a lack of athleticism along the OL, a lack of athleticism on the DL and the same at LB.

In addition. there is a general lack of team speed.

Our starting OL players might not even be backups on the top 16 teams. Same goes for the starting LBers.

This isn't to say that we don't have SOME decent skill-position talent ... Mixon, Gio, Boyd, AJ and Eiffert when healthy. 

But our major weakness is still lack of speed. To paraphrase Adm. William "Bull" Halsey ... Draft speed, draft speed, draft more speed.

Look no further than week 17 last season. no AJ no Dalton Smith at left tackle. we were competitive against that team. Compare that to Monday night. That's all the proof you need to see Zac is in over his head.

(10-01-2019, 03:36 PM)PV Bengal Wrote: Sorry, but I disagree that we are stacked at most positions.

As I watched last night's game, I saw a lack of athleticism along the OL, a lack of athleticism on the DL and the same at LB.

In addition. there is a general lack of team speed.

Our starting OL players might not even be backups on the top 16 teams. Same goes for the starting LBers.

This isn't to say that we don't have SOME decent skill-position talent ... Mixon, Gio, Boyd, AJ and Eiffert when healthy. 

But our major weakness is still lack of speed. To paraphrase Adm. William "Bull" Halsey ... Draft speed, draft speed, draft more speed.

He clearly said except for the o line and linebackers 

(10-01-2019, 03:15 PM)BengalsGenius Wrote: I was doing some research. Pete Brown (Mikes brother) was in charge of player personel until his death in 2017. Paul Brown (Mikes Son) now has that role. This could be as simple as Paul Brown sucks. I just cant get over the lack of effort being put into the offensive line. I think an upgrade of Hart/Smith would be simple.

It's not a lack of effort.

In the last 5 drafts they've drafted more 1st round O-linemen (3) than they have defensive players in rounds 1 and 2 combined - and then on top of that they've traded for a player with a top 5 salary on the roster.

They've made moves.

And maybe those moves may have worked if Jonah had been fit and Glenn been at RT and if Boling had been fit. Maybe. 


Where they went wrong is with talent assessment (and development?) - Obguehi, Fisher Price - and by ignoring the need for depth beyond the starters.

If you want to see an area that has been neglected look at defense. Look how little draft capital and free agency money has been invested - not just at linebacker but all over the D - in the last 5 years.

(10-01-2019, 02:54 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I really think that with better playcalling, teams could tee off against us. Keep them off balance so if they blitz, we'll beat it.

Some of the OC's we've had in past years would run quick slants against blitzes, etc. TE screens.

We do none of that.

This is in no way an innovative offense. Honestly though...ZT was a bad OC at UC. He was worse than Lazor in Miami. We can just keep explaining those failures away. Blaming players, etc. Or we can just realize he's not some brilliant offensive mind.

Yes, asking CJ to block Watt doesn’t scream offensive mastermind to me. And you can’t tell me the defenses sniff out almost every screen without reading keys in there formations. It was almost like Pitt was in the huddle.

(10-01-2019, 01:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks most likely know I was one of Marvin's biggest fans in this forum, but the time had come to part ways. But I will say Marvin Lewis' stock rises every week the current Bengal team plays. Maybe the Browns will see the light and bring him back in an advisory role.

losing marvins connection with m brown has hurt... no doubt.


its the new day almost everyone wanted though...… and the new day is worst than the old day.

(10-01-2019, 01:43 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: I dont feel the problem is talent besides for oline and LB we are pretty stacked at most positions. Taylor in no way shape or form is head coach material. Dont even feel he's offensive coordinator material. I hate to say it but Piston's is right.

I am an original Bengal fan and former season ticket holder trough my Dad dating back to 1967.

We are not "stacked" at the other positions.

Not stacked at QB though Andy could be good with an above average line.

Not stacked at tight end even though we just wasted a second round pick on a tight end who does not play when we had much greater needs.

Mixon is good but lots of teams have comparable RBs.  RBs about as good as their line.

WR- about average without AJ and maybe slightly above average with AJ.

Not stacked at safety. Bates has regressed.

Dre is a penalty machine and cannot tackle- not stacked at CB.

And the real problem- oline and LBs are very possibly the worst groups in the league right now.

This team is a new QB and three years of great coaching and exceptionally smart management through draft and free agency from being a true competitor. And we do not have the superior management needed to pull that off.

If I was not in a really fun fantasy league with my youngest son I would stop watching the NFL. The Bengals are almost hopeless given the current state of affairs. Nothing will change absent a revolution at the ownership level .

Re-sign Hart to three years and draft Sample in second round says it all.

Good theory OP.
In all honesty I think the front office has a big ego problem and they double downed on bad players like Brown & Hart because they thought Marvin was the problem and not them.
However I have some confidence that things will change
1.) They will be entering the 4th consecutive season without making the playoffs next season.
2.) Taylor will demand more players that fit his system
3.) They need to sell tickets.

(10-01-2019, 03:15 PM)BengalsGenius Wrote: I was doing some research. Pete Brown (Mikes brother) was in charge of player personel until his death in 2017. Paul Brown (Mikes Son) now has that role. This could be as simple as Paul Brown sucks. I just cant get over the lack of effort being put into the offensive line. I think an upgrade of Hart/Smith would be simple.

They obviously liked Hart...because even when Williams was healthy...they wanted to move Glenn to Guard. A logical choice would seem to be replacing Hart with Jonah and using Jonah and Glenn as the Tackles and Hart as the backup.

(10-01-2019, 04:38 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Good theory OP.
In all honesty I think the front office has a big ego problem and they double downed on bad players like Brown & Hart because they thought Marvin was the problem and not them.
However I have some confidence that things will change
1.) They will be entering the 4th consecutive season without making the playoffs next season.
2.) Taylor will demand more players that fit his system
3.) They need to sell tickets.

I highly doubt they care about any of those 3 things. A logical team would. Not here.

We'll sign our normal 2-3 washed up veteran free agents. We'll do PR on how getting Jonah back is a 2nd 1st Round pick.

Rinse. Repeat.

The fanbase will eat it up!