(03-30-2019, 08:50 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Teams can't draft 3 Pro Bowl players over the past 8 drafts and claim to be great at drafting.

Bengals rank 11 out of 32 for drafting Pro Bowlers over the last 10 yrs.

https://247sports.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/Board/103087/Contents/Team-with-the-most-Pro-Bowlers-of-the-last-10-years-71154349/

Evidence that they are pretty good at drafting since that puts them in the top third of the league.

(03-30-2019, 10:26 PM)Beaker Wrote: Bengals rank 11 out of 32 for drafting Pro Bowlers over the last 10 yrs.

https://247sports.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/Board/103087/Contents/Team-with-the-most-Pro-Bowlers-of-the-last-10-years-71154349/

Evidence that they are pretty good at drafting since that puts them in the top third of the league.

That link you posted was from 2015. Guys like Whitworth and Joseph counted in it.

4 teams tied for #10...so we'd be 14th. Which gee...we'd generally go in the playoffs as a 5 or 6 seed so we'd be 10-12th best team. It kind of illustrates our problem.

The goal isn't to be the 14th best team in the league. It's to be THE BEST TEAM in the league.

So many fans around here seem to be content with being average or mediocre each year.

We haven't drafted a single Pro Bowl player since Eifert in 2013.

When we did draft Pro Bowl players...we went to the Playoffs generally. There's a direct correlation.

This is from 2017 and ranks how well each NFL Team did drafting over the past 5 years. It ranks us 26th.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-teams-five-year-success-by-draft-class

(03-30-2019, 08:50 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote:  The Dalton, Green, Boling draft was great. The Atkins/Dunlap draft was great.

They haven't drafted a Pro Bowl player since 2013 and that is Eifert who is always hurt. Yes 0 Pro Bowl players drafted in the last 5 drafts.

Then before that, the last Pro Bowl player they drafted...was Dalton and Green in 2011.

Teams can't draft 3 Pro Bowl players over the past 8 drafts and claim to be great at drafting.

You do understand that Pro Bowls mean zilch correct? It is fan voted and 9 out of 10 fans vote for those from their respective teams whether they are worthy or not.

(03-30-2019, 10:56 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: This is from 2017 and ranks how well each NFL Team did drafting over the past 5 years. It ranks us 26th.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-teams-five-year-success-by-draft-class

5 years is an extremely small drafting sample as some players are still on their first deal so a much better sample would be over 10 years would you not agree?

http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/list/nfl-draft-pick-grades-best-drafting-teams-history-packers-patriots-cowboys-steelers-seahawks-giants-jets-49ers-colts/1l1pnbiucjqpa1812jl4ry152i/slide/13

(03-31-2019, 09:54 AM)OSUfan Wrote: You do understand that Pro Bowls mean zilch correct? It is fan voted and 9 out of 10 fans vote for those from their respective teams whether they are worthy or not.

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah...Pro Bowls aren't a good indicator of success. Playoff wins aren't a metric to measure success. Neither are Super Bowls.

The only measure of success is the fact that there are some teams in the league who wish they had our regular season success over the last 15 years, right?

(03-31-2019, 11:12 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah, Yeah, Yeah...Pro Bowls aren't a good indicator of success. Playoff wins aren't a metric to measure success. Neither are Super Bowls.

The only measure of success is the fact that there are some teams in the league who wish they had our regular season success over the last 15 years, right?

I did not mention playoff wins or Super Bowls but good see that you are still a diva when it comes to drama. I notice you did not want to address the 10 year data. Wonder why that is. Not convenient for your argument?

One thing is certain. Without a successful regular season then you absolutely have no shot at a successful post season.

(03-31-2019, 12:06 PM)OSUfan Wrote: I did not mention playoff wins or Super Bowls but good see that you are still a diva when it comes to drama. I notice you did not want to address the 10 year data. Wonder why that is. Not convenient for your argument?

One thing is certain. Without a successful regular season then you absolutely have no shot at a successful post season.

Even the 10 year data from 2015 which included guys like Whitworth and Joseph wasn't great. 14th in Pro Bowl Players!

Yay! We're 14th!!! And that was arguably the best 10 year span of drafting in franchise history. And...STILL...14th!!!

And you'll argue me that things are great with the model they use.

As I said above...we were generally a 5-6 seed in the playoffs so that means we had the 10th to 12 best team in the league. Not a good enough roster to win in the playoffs.

And that's only looking at the Top of the roster. Many times we had guys starting that ranked among the worst starters at their position by PFF. Maualuga was ranked among the worst MLB's. Bodine was.

The reality is that the last 5 drafts have been pretty poor. In fact, it's been downhill after the Dalton/Green draft.

And when we did hit on a player like Zeitler...he left in free agency.

(03-31-2019, 02:47 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Even the 10 year data from 2015 which included guys like Whitworth and Joseph wasn't great. 14th in Pro Bowl Players!

Yay! We're 14th!!! And that was arguably the best 10 year span of drafting in franchise history. And...STILL...14th!!!

And you'll argue me that things are great with the model they use.

As I said above...we were generally a 5-6 seed in the playoffs so that means we had the 10th to 12 best team in the league. Not a good enough roster to win in the playoffs.

And that's only looking at the Top of the roster. Many times we had guys starting that ranked among the worst starters at their position by PFF. Maualuga was ranked among the worst MLB's. Bodine was.

The reality is that the last 5 drafts have been pretty poor. In fact, it's been downhill after the Dalton/Green draft.

And when we did hit on a player like Zeitler...he left in free agency.

Please stop with the Pro Bowl criteria. How many Pro Bowls should Whitworth have been to that he got snubbed on because it is a fan vote. Sorry but the Pro Bowl argument is just ridiculous.

Yeah:

Zac Taylor on the myth that Mike Brown doesn’t care about winning: I’ll dispel that myth right now. I’ve never seen someone who wants to win as badly as Mike Brown. I just can’t tell you how much I’ve learned from him and how much respect I have for him

— Katherine Terrell (@Kat_Terrell) March 26, 2019

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(10-01-2019, 04:53 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah:

Zac Taylor on the myth that Mike Brown doesn’t care about winning: I’ll dispel that myth right now. I’ve never seen someone who wants to win as badly as Mike Brown. I just can’t tell  you how much I’ve learned from him and how much respect I have for him

— Katherine Terrell (@Kat_Terrell) March 26, 2019

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

The issue isn't Mike Brown doesn't want to win. He DOES want to win. The problem is that he wants to win HIS way. His way has been a failure for almost 30 years, but he's going to keep trying until it works he can say, "Told ya."

(03-28-2019, 10:06 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Just move the damn team to Mexico City.

If that ever happens Mexico will build a border wall all by themselves.

(10-01-2019, 04:55 PM)PhilHos Wrote: The issue isn't Mike Brown doesn't want to win. He DOES want to win. The problem is that he wants to win HIS way. His way has been a failure for almost 30 years, but he's going to keep trying until it works he can say, "Told ya."

I feel like I've been reading posts that say exactly this for 20 years on message boards.

Model Model was the epitome of 'Told ya.'

(10-01-2019, 04:55 PM)PhilHos Wrote: The issue isn't Mike Brown doesn't want to win. He DOES want to win. The problem is that he wants to win HIS way. His way has been a failure for almost 30 years, but he's going to keep trying until it works he can say, "Told ya."

This statement is what always makes me question if he really wants to win.

What is more important, success and winning or being right?

If I'm an owner of anything, and after 30 years hell let's be honest if after 10 years I'm failing horribly doing it my way while others succeed, I'm hiring people away from the successful places and saying, makes us successful too. 

Winning I think would be nice to Mike, but he is too stubborn to actually do what it takes to win. Like, fire all the family hires who don't know football. Hire scouts, hire a GM, hire an assistant GM, and get out of the damn way.

(10-01-2019, 07:13 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: This statement is what always makes me question if he really wants to win.

What is more important, success and winning or being right?

If I'm an owner of anything, and after 30 years hell let's be honest if after 10 years I'm failing horribly doing it my way while others succeed, I'm hiring people away from the successful places and saying, makes us successful too. 

Winning I think would be nice to Mike, but he is too stubborn to actually do what it takes to win. Like, fire all the family hires who don't know football. Hire scouts, hire a GM, hire an assistant GM, and get out of the damn way.

That evaluation seems to be lacking. From keeping Lewis 3 years after his 7th playoff loss without a win. To keeping Dalton 9 years as the starting QB. (Not that Dalton is terrible, I just don't see a lot of franchises doing that.)

(10-01-2019, 04:55 PM)PhilHos Wrote: The issue isn't Mike Brown doesn't want to win. He DOES want to win. The problem is that he wants to win HIS way. His way has been a failure for almost 30 years, but he's going to keep trying until it works he can say, "Told ya."

But that doesn't count.  That's like saying I want to be the CEO of a major company but I want to do it my way, by sitting on the couch watching daytime TV and doing nothing.  Or I want to be a chiseled adonis but I want to get that way by eating nothing but ice cream.

(10-01-2019, 08:15 PM)Nately120 Wrote: But that doesn't count.  That's like saying I want to be the CEO of a major company but I want to do it my way, by sitting on the couch watching daytime TV and doing nothing.  Or I want to be a chiseled adonis but I want to get that way by eating nothing but ice cream.

Right. I think a normal person who was the owner of a business would realize that the way they did things didn't work. I guess the NFL isn't a normal business with revenue sharing though. A normal company when mismanaged would go under.

Here, they just toy with the fanbases emotion.

Logically it makes no sense to follow a team this mismanaged.

(10-01-2019, 04:53 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah:

Zac Taylor on the myth that Mike Brown doesn’t care about winning: I’ll dispel that myth right now. I’ve never seen someone who wants to win as badly as Mike Brown. I just can’t tell  you how much I’ve learned from him and how much respect I have for him

— Katherine Terrell (@Kat_Terrell) March 26, 2019

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When I first read that I saw it as a red flag on Taylor. To go out of his way to talk up a guy he doesn't even know. Didn't resonate well with me.

 

(10-01-2019, 11:03 PM)BengalChris Wrote: When I first read that I saw it as a red flag on Taylor. To go out of his way to talk up a guy he doesn't even know. Didn't resonate well with me.

 

Either Zac was blowing smoke up his new boss’ ass... or they are two peas in a pod: Delusional and in over their heads. And if that is the case, Zac already has a job here as long as he wants. Results be damned.

This is a truly horrifying scenario

(10-02-2019, 01:43 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: Either Zac was blowing smoke up his new boss’ ass... 

If there's one thing I'm learning about Zac Taylor, it's that he's a smooth talker.