I've always been the person that said we've got the talent to make a run at this thing.... but no longer.

We do have some talent, but that talent is aging and this team has way too many holes to compete for a championship (and to me that's what it's all about).

I love AJ Green, Geno, Carlos Dunlap and even think Andy Dalton is a good QB.  But let's face it, this roster is incomplete to compete.  We need to fix the OL and LB corps in a bad way.  Not a 1-year fix but a multi-year fix through the draft.  We're not going to sign make-a-difference free agents so we need to stockpile draft picks.  The only way to do this is to deal the best things we have, sadly.

Right now we can get value for some of our better players.  It may not be a popular thing for many on these boards but at least sets a course and a vision for the future.  Right now I'm no longer buying that this product can work, so every year that goes by is another year wasted.  Not one player or coach can fix this mess.  It's going to take a couple of years minimum, and that's assuming we grab a couple free agent difference makers (which probably won't happen with the current management philosophy).  

Let's start now while we still have some young talent, like Mixon, WJ3, Hubbard, Bates and Noah Williams (TBD).  I dangle our best players to anyone that will listen.

It's time....

It was time 2 years ago. The difference between us and say the browns, is they have an owner that wants to win and actually employs a gm. Meanwhile we have duke Tobin and Paul brown jr. it’s a damn nightmare

This rebuild is going to take decades.

The FO is off the rails. Their big contracts wrapped up in over 30 players, and the newer three year deals blown on bums like Hart, Webb, Brown, and Miller. So we got another year with them no matter what.

Signs point to dark days in the jungle. For the foreseeable future.

(10-02-2019, 11:19 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: I've always been the person that said we've got the talent to make a run at this thing.... but no longer.

We do have some talent, but that talent is aging and this team has way too many holes to compete for a championship (and to me that's what it's all about).

I love AJ Green, Geno, Carlos Dunlap and even think Andy Dalton is a good QB.  But let's face it, this roster is incomplete to compete.  We need to fix the OL and LB corps in a bad way.  Not a 1-year fix but a multi-year fix through the draft.  We're not going to sign make-a-difference free agents so we need to stockpile draft picks.  The only way to do this is to deal the best things we have, sadly.

Right now we can get value for some of our better players.  It may not be a popular thing for many on these boards but at least sets a course and a vision for the future.  Right now I'm no longer buying that this product can work, so every year that goes by is another year wasted.  Not one player or coach can fix this mess.  It's going to take a couple of years minimum, and that's assuming we grab a couple free agent difference makers (which probably won't happen with the current management philosophy).  

Let's start now while we still have some young talent, like Mixon, WJ3, Hubbard, Bates and Noah Williams (TBD).  I dangle our best players to anyone that will listen.

It's time....

I do believe you got your biblical names mixed up 8n there, but I get what you're saying...

I'll be honest that the only thing keeping me from jumping ship completely is this very board and even this is becoming depressing.  The Brown family ain't fixing anything. Even if they could they're not competent to do it. 

It just might be time for a rebuild, but I don’t think we are certain. 4 games in, we know our weaknesses and then some. But many teams try to rebuild that just rebuild back into mediocrity. We need to fix what we have and stay focused on correcting our line first and then see. All this talk about the D is warranted, but hard to judge when their gassed early because the O kept them on the field too long.

(10-02-2019, 11:34 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: It just might be time for a rebuild, but I don’t think we are certain. 4 games in, we know our weaknesses and then some. But many teams try to rebuild that just rebuild back into mediocrity. We need to fix what we have and stay focused on correcting our line first and then see. All this talk about the D is warranted, but hard to judge when their gassed early because the O kept them on the field too long.

Getting killed on MNF should be enough to cause this team to want badly to win in front of our fans.Being at home and all that should make them the favorites to win this.If I were a D-player and this number one pick starts to run with the ball,he would be drilled big time by me,of course a legal hit and all that.Its time to bring down the hammer with the axe right behind it.I want ZT to be a winner along with this coaching staff,because if he starts winning it will make me happy. :andy: :andy: :andy: :andy: :andy:

1.) Where not going to get = value for them
2.) Rebuilding in the NFL is easy compared to other sports. If it takes us a long time then the front office is doing it wrong.
3.) I think Geno,Carlos, and AJ have plenty left in the tank and can help us win in the next two to three seasons. If you actually address the needs of this team without being complete crap at QB this team can still be a contender.

(10-02-2019, 11:24 PM)jj22 Wrote: This rebuild is going to take decades.

The FO is off the rails. Their big contracts wrapped up in over 30 players, and the newer three year deals blown on bums like Hart, Webb, Brown, and Miller. So we got another year with them no matter what.

Signs point to dark days in the jungle. For the foreseeable future.

What are you talking about? The webb, Brown, and Hart deals are easy to get out of.

I pray our first or second round pick next yr will be a right tackle. We are in dire need of any line help

(10-02-2019, 11:40 PM)fortyyearfan Wrote: Getting killed on MNF should be enough to cause this team to want badly to win in front of our fans.Being at home and all that should make them the favorites to win this.If I were a D-player and this number one pick starts to run with the ball,he would be drilled big time by me,of course a legal hit and all that.Its time to bring down the hammer with the axe right behind it.I want ZT to be a winner along with this coaching staff,because if he starts winning it will make me happy. :andy: :andy: :andy: :andy: :andy:

I want a win so much I can hardly wait!

The real problem is putting bandages on the gaping bullet wound that is the O-Line. Regardless of the QB, and regardless of the weapons, you build the line first. We've been cursed with bad drafts and an impotent free agency in that regard. The answer is to not go in a different direction, but to double down (gambling degenerates withstanding) on the line. If you build the line, the talent will follow.

PB knew this and MB doesn't. A third of you want some mythical giant, scrambling, gunslinger that can achieve success independent of the line or its deficiencies. Another third want Andy to magically turn into a scrambling, roll-out QB. The logical ones, want the same thing we've wanted for four years now. A real plan to turn this O-Line into something beyond incompetent.

It's not Rocket Science, you build from the lines out. And you actually build said line, not half ass it with Tobtard and friends.

(10-02-2019, 11:24 PM)jj22 Wrote: This rebuild is going to take decades.

The FO is off the rails. Their big contracts wrapped up in over 30 players, and the newer three year deals blown on bums like Hart, Webb, Brown, and Miller. So we got another year with them no matter what.

Signs point to dark days in the jungle. For the foreseeable future.

Cant happen, this team will leave town in 5 years if they don't get the city behind them.

The pissing contest between the city, county and crazy left wingers will drive the team out of town

(10-02-2019, 11:23 PM)Andy2AJ Wrote: .....Meanwhile we have duke Tobin and Paul brown jr. it’s a damn nightmare

Paul Brown Jr?????

That's an insult and criminal to call Mike Brown, Paul Brown Jr!!!

Paul Brown was one of the greatest football minds in the game.

His biggest mentor now has 6 SB rings and counting!!!

We lost a lot of talent 4 years ago in free agency...and really struggled to replace them. Still haven't.

(10-03-2019, 09:45 AM)bengalguy71 Wrote: Paul Brown Jr?????

That's an insult and criminal to call Mike Brown, Paul Brown Jr!!!

Paul Brown was one of the greatest football minds in the game.

His biggest mentor now has 6 SB rings and counting!!!

PB Jr is Mikey's son, so Paul Brown's grandson. And by all accounts he knows even less than Mikey who knew much less than PB. 

(10-03-2019, 10:23 AM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: PB Jr is Mikey's son, so Paul Brown's grandson. And by all accounts he knows even less than Mikey who knew much less than PB. 

The difference between Mikey and his dad, is his dad would sell off everything he owned to win a game. Mikey wouldn’t sacrifice his 1989 lumina Doran offensive lineman. Bobby hart isn’t worth the weight that heap of junk would bring