(10-03-2019, 12:23 PM)thillan Wrote: Yeah I know the OP was sarcasm, and this thread has a serious conversation.. I think I’d give him another year no matter what. Bengals had one of the worst defenses last year, and didn’t bring in anything. Offensive line is a wash, with retirement and injuries.

Really, we are mad at the guy, but what can you expect. Mediocre QB, poor OL, poor defense that brought in no new talent, how can you improve?

I'm fine with Bengals giving Taylor another year. But I'd also be fine with them starting over after this year. At this point, I don't care who is coaching as long as there's improvement next year.

(10-03-2019, 01:43 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Turner is ZT's buddy. I doubt ZT wants him fired.

Yeah, that's a sticky wickett.  I assume Turner will get the axe eventually, but ZT vouched for him and gave us a load of "don't believe what you've read or seen, believe me" in regards to Turner and Bobby Hart.  It's just the worst sort of coach-speak, but I get it.

Is Turner the guy who is like his cousin's father in law or something like that?


At any rate, it's a knock on ZT (in addition to the FO, mostly) that we are already ready calling for the firings of the guys he brought to help him. Who do you think is going to to show up to replace them? Ugh.

(10-03-2019, 01:43 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Turner is ZT's buddy. I doubt ZT wants him fired.

Maybe so, but Taylor will learn that "buddies" may hinder his progress, and he must learn to cut bait in order to succeed.  This will take time to sink in however because Taylor is young, idealistic, and hopeful.  But when the teeth of reality bites harder, he will take a long look at each coaching position more objectively during the next off season.  His job will be on the line.  

(10-03-2019, 01:54 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Maybe so, but Taylor will learn that "buddies" may hinder his progress, and he must learn to cut bait in order to succeed.  This will take time to sink in however because Taylor is young, idealistic, and hopeful.  But when the teeth of reality bites harder, he will take a long look at each coaching position more objectively during the next off season.  His job will be on the line.  

This is the NFL though, we shouldn't need our HC to learn basic rules of professionalism and success on the job any more than we should be teaching NFL players "fundamentals."  This, like the o-line, is one of those things that our process is going to lead to a 5+ year fix.

(10-03-2019, 01:57 PM)Nately120 Wrote: This is the NFL though, we shouldn't need our HC to learn basic rules of professionalism and success on the job any more than we should be teaching NFL players "fundamentals."  This, like the o-line, is one of those things that our process is going to lead to a 5+ year fix.

Taylor should have brought in Mike Sherman.  He needed some help for sure.  Hopefully he is a quick study.  I am preparing myself for a 3 year fix before we see a turn around.  Maybe I am too hopeful.  

(10-03-2019, 11:02 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's a bit premature to put this list together, but lets start to create a list:

Bob Fredricks - He's the passing game coordinator for the Fort Sumner Middle School offense. Their passing offense was ranked last in the conference when he took over. He's managed to boost their rankings to next to last now. He brings a high flying, innovative approach to the game. There's a soundclip of him charismatically firing his players up before a game saying 'Let's gain some yards through the air!!!' His team then responded with a 175 yard aerial assault on the Ligonier Alligators in a scrimmage.

Cons - He doesn't have much experience. He was the 6th grade girls volleyball coach the previous season. 2 Years before that he was a high school math teacher and golf coach. He was fired as golf coach, but reports say he didn't have much talent on the team.

What candidates do you have? 

I am glad this thread was a joke. I never jumped on we are fixed because we hired a new HC train, but I think ZT should get at least 2 years to prove he can coach in the league, not 4 games. Now is we go 0-16 and team regresses with a lot of poor coaching, my stance could change.

(10-03-2019, 01:49 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Yeah, that's a sticky wickett.  I assume Turner will get the axe eventually, but ZT vouched for him and gave us a load of "don't believe what you've read or seen, believe me" in regards to Turner and Bobby Hart.  It's just the worst sort of coach-speak, but I get it.

Is Turner the guy who is like his cousin's father in law or something like that?


At any rate, it's a knock on ZT (in addition to the FO, mostly) that we are already ready calling for the firings of the guys he brought to help him.  Who do you think is going to to show up to replace them?  Ugh.

We're essentially the Siberia of the NFL. What other team gets turned down by like 5 defensive coordinators?

It's going to be hard to get qualified coaches here...because they know the teams history in regards to player acquisition. It's just hard to win and succeed here.

Coaches with other options don't want to come here.

Our staff is a bunch of rejects.

Heck...even Marvin sort of was. He was passed over how many times for HC jobs before we hired him. On paper, he looked like a good candidate with the Ravens defense...but he was passed over a bunch.

(10-03-2019, 02:07 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am glad this thread was a joke. I never jumped on we are fixed because we hired a new HC train, but I think ZT should get at least 2 years to prove he can coach in the league, not 4 games. Now is we go 0-16 and team regresses with a lot of poor coaching, my stance could change.

I think that seeing improvement from the players and playcalling would be a bit of a boost as the season goes on regardless of record.

As of now, the guys look lost. IF they continue to look lost. Or if they totally tune out the coaches...which during the Steelers game some of that seemed to be starting to happen...They may be forced to fire him.

If zac truly is the man for the job, then he needs to grow a pair and stand up to the front office. Duke Tobin and the Brown family completely set him up for failure, and I hope he realizes this. The front office was likely delusional enough to think this offensive line was competent, that we didn’t need any help at linebacker, etc... Zac should have demanded more help. But he didn’t. He stood pat and let this shit show form. So either he knew this and didn’t have the courage to stand up to ownership.... or he agreed with everything they did.

(10-03-2019, 11:39 AM)lone bengal Wrote: I bet legit coaches would wanna come to a team that just fired a guy after one season. Let’s just stop the madness Taylor might not be the guy but we need to give him time to find out what he can do with a real offensive line. This roster is a mess and will take time to fix. Always thought a coach needed  3 years to get his system and players in place. If we don’t see progress in year 2 I would start to get worried. Plus people act like Mcvay just came to the Rams and his system just magically turned the team around. The Rams front office helped him out big time. They signed Andrew Withworth , Robert Woods, Suh, Aqib Talib, traded for Brandin Cooks , Patrick Peters,  and Dante Flower JR. And they supplemented that with having good drafts and had talent like Arron Donald and Gurley  already on the roster. They also signed a great Veteran Defense coordinator with head coach experience in Wade Phillips. To help out Taylor the Bengals signed a DC with no experience who was there 5th option and signed free agents like B.W. Webb, Wynn and John Miller.

So, in other words, Mike Brown didn't do what the Rams did. Is anyone surprised?

The roster is more of a mess now than last season, which shouldn't really surprise anyone since it is highly likely that the front office weighed its own player evaluations over those of the new coaches.

 

(10-03-2019, 02:17 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: If zac truly is the man for the job, then he needs to grow a pair and stand up to the front office. Duke Tobin and the Brown family completely set him up for failure, and I hope he realizes this. The front office was likely delusional enough to think this offensive line was competent, that we didn’t need any help at linebacker, etc... Zac should have demanded more help. But he didn’t. He stood pat and let this shit show form. So either he knew this and didn’t have the courage to stand up to ownership.... or he agreed with everything they did.

Taylor is a young idealistic HC at his first gig.  Reality will set in just as it did for Marvin Lewis at which point he demanded changes in facilities and more control.  If the team wins 2-3 games, then Taylor will have to "look in the mirror" again and make some demands.  I think he will need a year to sort out the problems of personnel and to evaluate what he needs to win.  

If Tobin and the Front Office continues to bring in lower tier FA, Taylor will have to draw the line at some point.  If players or coaches do not perform, he will have to learn that the NFL is a business and changes must be made.  He has to put performance above all things.  

Taylor is establishing relationships at this point.  He is not at the point to truly evaluate these relationships objectively.  I hope Mike Sherman talks to Taylor this off season and help him with the evaluation process.  

(10-03-2019, 02:17 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: If zac truly is the man for the job, then he needs to grow a pair and stand up to the front office. Duke Tobin and the Brown family completely set him up for failure, and I hope he realizes this. The front office was likely delusional enough to think this offensive line was competent, that we didn’t need any help at linebacker, etc... Zac should have demanded more help. But he didn’t. He stood pat and let this shit show form. So either he knew this and didn’t have the courage to stand up to ownership.... or he agreed with everything they did.

I don't think Taylor was setup for failure.

IF anything, I think he was a smooth talker in the interviews and had Bengals Management convinced that he could get a staff together, put good scheme's in place, and make the players perform better. That obviously has not happened.

Now it looks like talent is the issue.

Honestly, is there ever a 3-13 team that is loaded with talent? Of course not. Bad coaching makes the talent level look bad.

(10-03-2019, 01:57 PM)Nately120 Wrote: This is the NFL though, we shouldn't need our HC to learn basic rules of professionalism and success on the job any more than we should be teaching NFL players "fundamentals."  This, like the o-line, is one of those things that our process is going to lead to a 5+ year fix.

Correct. People cite the staffs inexperience like it should be an excuse that allows their results to be overlooked. The bottom line is they got jobs here and should be able to do them or be held accountable.

Nate nails it. All of you old arse men fell for your own expectations. Reality is often disappointing.

As a younger fan, I’ve enjoyed most of the season so far, all because I get to see someone other than Marvin Lewis coach. It will only get better when the remnants of the Dalton Green era are gone, all of them. A bengals team without green dalton Atkins and Dunlap and Bernard are the best thing that can happen to the Bengals.

I think i said it 2-3 years ago, and still firmly believe in this guy.

Mike Pettine.

He has turned the GB D from complete garbage into a top 10 maybe top 5 defense.
THE BEST Cleveland has looked in the past 10 years was under him. Johnny mania screwed him over.

I firmly believe this guy is a great HC candidate and will impress the next time he gets a chance.

Bengal coaching legend Mike Zimmer might be available soon

Can't coach talent and some people just don't have it. Can coaching help some develop into better players? Sure, but that even has limits. Some of the players have shown that they are the bottom of the heap in NFL players. Problem is, anyone better is somewhere else.

(10-03-2019, 11:49 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You'll always have the Seahawks loss...to look back fondly on. Peak Taylor.

LOL but i hope its not true

It may take seeing a QB on IR to get the goobers running things to understand that no matter what it takes the blocking has to be fixed. Really after the fiascos this season (and no the pass blocking was only decent inn Seattle - every other game it has been awful) if I were Dalton and Finley I would refuse to go out there behind this line without MAJOR adjustments.

(10-03-2019, 02:10 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: As of now, the guys look lost. IF they continue to look lost. Or if they totally tune out the coaches...which during the Steelers game some of that seemed to be starting to happen...They may be forced to fire him.

Stop it. You're just throwing out conjecture now. None of that has any basis in truth.