(10-03-2019, 03:24 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's all of the above. Our coaches are bad. Our schemes. Our players lack talent.

And worst of all, I think the players know the coaches are bad and are giving up.

Injuries are also a part.
Imagine if the Rams were without Cooks and either Kupp or Woods.
Imagine if Whitworth was out.
The Rams' OL has been bad with Saffold and Sullivan gone. Whitworth has been their only good OL so far this year.
Now take out their second-best edge rusher (would that be Fowler or Ebukam?).

Without the above, they might not even have 3 wins.

(10-03-2019, 10:36 AM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: The question we need to ask is - what motivates the owners and upper management?

It's definitely NOT profits because a winning team like the patriots bring in 100 times more money than the mighty Bengals do.

(10-04-2019, 04:13 PM)Nately120 Wrote: After that season he also made demands that the players be held to standards that were very "not fun" and demanded a restructuring of the department that selects the players that is given to make a roster.  I'm not holding my breath that either of those things happen here in year 2, but you never know.

As soon as Bill was allowed to make personnel decisions and be a nasty and super not fun HC things turned around quickly.  This isn't a great sign seeing how "fun 'n' easy and don't be afraid to screw up" was our rallying cry going into this season.  We just need to drop the Belichick comparisons, because we are doing the opposite in the FO and at HC.

I bring it up because so many think that Taylor has already reached his potential as HC; that he will never improve; that we can judge how good/bad he is based on 4 games.

MOTIVATION will NOT help this team. They are motivated. They have very little talent at key positions to translate the motivation into a winning team!!!

(10-04-2019, 04:22 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I bring it up because so many think that Taylor has already reached his potential as HC; that he will never improve; that we can judge how good/bad he is based on 4 games.

I get it, but defending ZT (and anyone else on this team we like) is also heavily based around the notion that no one can win here...which doesn't inspire confidence that things are going to get better.  Right now we are in the unenviable spot where our optimism is reduced to saying "it's hopeless" which is interesting. 

(10-04-2019, 04:28 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I get it, but defending ZT (and anyone else on this team we like) is also heavily based around the notion that no one can win here...which doesn't inspire confidence that things are going to get better.  Right now we are in the unenviable spot where our optimism is reduced to saying "it's hopeless" which is interesting. 

I'm not one defending ZT based on that "no one can win here". Marvin Lewis is proof that that's not true. He won here. Sure, he didn't win a championship or even a playoff game, but is anyone really saying the playoff losses are Mike Brown's fault?

Zac Taylor may or may not be the one that gets us a Super Bowl, but a good coach can and WILL win here. It'll be harder if the FO keeps doing things its way, but it won't be impossible. 

Either way, we have no idea how good ZT will end up as a HC based on only 4 games.

(10-04-2019, 04:37 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'm not one defending ZT based on that "no one can win here". Marvin Lewis is proof that that's not true. He won here. Sure, he didn't win a championship or even a playoff game, but is anyone really saying the playoff losses are Mike Brown's fault?

Zac Taylor may or may not be the one that gets us a Super Bowl, but a good coach can and WILL win here. It'll be harder if the FO keeps doing things its way, but it won't be impossible. 

Either way, we have no idea how good ZT will end up as a HC based on only 4 games.

that to me phil is just plain crazy talk!!! mervin is NOT proof that no one can win here! Get a grip! MIKE EFFIN BROWN IS PROOF NO ONE CAN WIN HERE!!!

(10-03-2019, 11:20 AM)jason Wrote: How long are we gonna blame pregame speeches and motivational speeches for losses? They're losing because they ain't no good.

:andy: :andy: :andy:

(10-04-2019, 04:37 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'm not one defending ZT based on that "no one can win here". Marvin Lewis is proof that that's not true. He won here. Sure, he didn't win a championship or even a playoff game, but is anyone really saying the playoff losses are Mike Brown's fault?

Zac Taylor may or may not be the one that gets us a Super Bowl, but a good coach can and WILL win here. It'll be harder if the FO keeps doing things its way, but it won't be impossible. 

Either way, we have no idea how good ZT will end up as a HC based on only 4 games.

With great coaching, great management, great drafts, some really good free agents- none of which we either have or should expect to happen- this team roster stinks and we are at least 3 years from being a contender for AFN North much less Super Bowl.

The best guys on the team are aging out or will not sign second contracts.

(10-04-2019, 04:43 PM)RASCAL Wrote: that to me phil is just plain crazy talk!!! mervin is NOT proof that no one can win here! Get a grip! MIKE EFFIN BROWN IS PROOF NO ONE CAN WIN HERE!!!

(10-04-2019, 04:43 PM)RASCAL Wrote: that to me phil is just plain crazy talk!!! mervin is NOT proof that no one can win here! Get a grip! MIKE EFFIN BROWN IS PROOF NO ONE CAN WIN HERE!!!

I think you need to get a grip.

Mike Brown is not the reason we lost in the 2015 playoffs.

(10-04-2019, 04:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I think you need to get a grip.

Mike Brown is not the reason we lost in the 2015 playoffs.

OHHHHHHH PUHlease!!! cherry pick one year! thats all you ever do!!!

(10-04-2019, 04:56 PM)PhilHos Wrote:

you having difficulties phil?

(10-03-2019, 10:36 AM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: The question we need to ask is - what motivates the owners and upper management?

Employing family members, slashing overhead costs, milking the taxpayers for stadium maintenance, hoarding rollover cap money, signing former 1st rounders to cut-rate contracts, and the value menu at Wendy’s.

What does not motivate management is challenging for Super Bowl wins. Playoff runs cost money.

(10-04-2019, 04:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I think you need to get a grip.

Mike Brown is not the reason we lost in the 2015 playoffs.

Mike Brown, he of the .41 winning percentage, zero Playoff wins, and zero titles? GM Mike Brown? Can’t be his fault, he only sets overall organizational accountability and commitment to winning. Winning a title with Mike Brown as owner/GM should be worth like 5 regular Lombardis.

The man is the NFL’s biggest Jonas, yet he’s not dumb enough to pull a Schott/Sterling and give the league cause to remove him. If the league can tolerate Booger Sugar Jim Irsay and Rub and Tug Bob Craft they’re not going to can Mike for general ineptitude. Since Katie/Troy have learned from the master don’t bet on improvement.

(10-04-2019, 04:22 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I bring it up because so many think that Taylor has already reached his potential as HC; that he will never improve; that we can judge how good/bad he is based on 4 games.

For the record, I don't think it's impossible for him to improve. Likely anyone gets better on a job.

All I'm pointing out is that his track record has been sketchy in the past, and he's not some natural offensive play caller. McVay might be. Taylor struggles knowing what to call when.

He might end up being a better HC than OC.

Honestly, with Coaches having to be scouts, it's a big ask for Taylor to excel at all of these things. It's just tough to succeed in this system.

(10-04-2019, 04:28 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I get it, but defending ZT (and anyone else on this team we like) is also heavily based around the notion that no one can win here...which doesn't inspire confidence that things are going to get better.  Right now we are in the unenviable spot where our optimism is reduced to saying "it's hopeless" which is interesting. 

Exactly! The ZT defense is basically...look the offensive line is horrible and the front office didn't address LB.

The narrative on the board in the offseason was a new staff was going to come in and coach guys up and make them produce better and hold them accountable.

That's failed. So people revert to the default which is blame management and injuries and say no one would win in this situation.

(10-03-2019, 10:28 AM)Nately120 Wrote: By that logic none of the NFL teams should be motivated to win because they are all comprised of people who make way above the median income level.  Unless there is some sort of NFL team where every guy makes $37,000 a year that I'm unaware of.  If I ran a team I'd only sign players who would play for $40k or so and then watch them become the most popular team in the county because everyone who complains that athletes make so much would be so on board with my philosophy.

Of course I'd be raking in billions, but I deserve it.

The players union might have something to say about that plan to pay everyone median wages. Nope..the players unions made em all into millionaires. They're not giving that up now or ever. On the other hand who wouldn't want to see Mike Brown make another couple billion bucks? He's a JOB CREATOR doncha know?   He works harder than all of us combined..

(10-04-2019, 04:21 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: It's definitely NOT profits because a winning team like the patriots bring in 100 times more money than the mighty Bengals do.

You are partially correct. It is clear that short term profits are what Mikey is all about. But he makes his money without risks needed to be taken to make even more. He accepts $X per year and wont invest to make $2X. His business model is built on milking the NFL cow but not increasing the size of the dairy herd. 

(10-04-2019, 04:03 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Speaking of Bill belichick: in his first season as Patriots HC, they started 0-4 and only went on to win 5 games that season. The offense didn't score more than 19 points in any of those first 4 games and in one, they only scored 3.

Great post. Lou is going to have to make the defense win games.