(10-07-2019, 12:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is just not true.  Period.

According to Profootballoutsiders last year Dalton's DVOA under pressure was -49.9.  That ranked 11th best out of the 34 QBs with at least 200 pass attempts.  PFO goes one step farther and looks at the difference between QBs DVOA with pressure and without.  Dalton had the 12th lowest difference.  So he is effected by pressure less than most QBs in the league.


All of these claims that Dalton sucks so bad under pressure and that so many other QBs do better is just BS.  It come from obsessing on every mistake Dalton makes and ignoring every good play he makes. 

I honestly think a lot of people don't watch the other games, just highlights. I see QBs all over the league making some similar mistakes. The issue here is that a lot of the time no one picks up the slack to overcome the obstacles. I'd also say Andy can't overcome obstacles on his own a lot of the time.

That said, I think it's time to move on for all parties involved. I just hope we find a QB that's at least as good, or it could be a long uphill climb for this team.

(10-07-2019, 01:46 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I've been a Dalton supporter since he was drafted and have always pulled for him to become a top tier QB. We're now in year 9 and it still hasn't happened. With the exception of 2015, he's never had an elite type season. I mean, he it what he is at this point. Although he is capable of having an awesome performance at times, he still has many of the same flaws and shortcomings that he had early in his career. 

Andy is capable of being a winning NFL QB in the right circumstance. After 9 years, I don't think we should wait around for that circumstance to be here again. The team is able to part ways with Andy after this season and I think they should. I think it would be best for them and for Andy. Keeping him around at this point, sort of feels like forcing a situation to continue when it really doesn't need to and probably isn't best for either side. 

I'm not saying you bench Andy right now, but if they continue to look bad and lose games over the next 4-6 weeks, I think you have to start taking a serious look a Finley to see what you have in him, so that so that you're not going into the offseason not knowing how he looks against NFL competition in a starting role. 

That's pretty much where I'm at right now. You can win with Dalton, but he's not enough to overcome this many weaknesses (like poor playcalling, poor OL, etc.). That said, even though we're not mathematically eliminated from the playoffs - and given how weak our division is, making the playoffs is still a possibility - I think we should start to look to the future. Give Finley a couple of starts against the weaker defenses (compared to other NFL  teams, not us, obviously) see if he might be a guy we could be our QB of the future. If he is, that leaves our draft picks to be used to fill other areas of weakness.

(10-07-2019, 01:52 PM)Wyche Wrote: I honestly think a lot of people don't watch the other games, just highlights. I see QBs all over the league making some similar mistakes. The issue here is that a lot of the time no one picks up the slack to overcome the obstacles. I'd also say Andy can't overcome obstacles on his own a lot of the time.

That said, I think it's time to move on for all parties involved. I just hope we find a QB that's at least as good, or it could be a long uphill climb for this team.

How many "franchise QBs" did we draft in the 90s that turned into anything but? Heck, Jeff Blake ended up as probably our best QB of the decade and we didn't even draft him and was 3rd string on our roster!

(10-07-2019, 11:28 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Right on !

Dalton can not even slightly elevate this team. Rarely, very rarely does he do QB stuff and extend plays and get it done. Like you say if he gets shoved off his spot the play is over.

totally daltons fault the defense couldn't stop the cardinals on sunday...

Blake to Pickens. Blake to Darnay Scott.

(10-07-2019, 01:13 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: You’ve made your Dalton hate clear — and we get it.  

Anyway, replacing Andy Dalton won’t be easy.  [Without a vastly improved offensive line and better play calling, any Cincinnati quarterback would be a sitting duck.  We could put Eli Manning back there and SPLAT!  We would see the same result.

Andy Dalton doesn’t suck but we need to be realistic moving forward.  I don’t see him staying in Cincinnati past this season but he would be great in a place like Minnesota or Oakland.  Let’s give the next quarterback in Cincinnati the weapons up front so he doesn’t look like a driver’s side airbag on impact.

No. Mobile QBs move around to avoid the rush more often than not. 

(10-07-2019, 02:09 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: totally daltons fault the defense couldn't stop the cardinals on sunday...

It is Dalton's fault that he missed a five yard wide open pass to Eifert in the end zone.

(10-07-2019, 04:30 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: It is Dalton's fault that he missed a five yard wide open pass to Eifert in the end zone.

Yes it is. Just like it's Tate's fault for dropping an easy catch for a TD.

(10-07-2019, 04:30 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: It is Dalton's fault that he missed a five yard wide open pass to Eifert in the end zone.

Yes.  Dalton made mistakes, but it is ridiculous to blame everything on Dalton's mistakes and claim all the mistakes by the rest of the team don't matter.

And it is ridiculous to act like no other QB in the league ever misses on a pass.

The tactics you guys use to try and make Dalton look bad could be used to blame any QB in the league for any loss.  Find one mistake the QB makes, then ignore every mistake made by any teammate and also ignore any good plays made by that QB.

(10-07-2019, 04:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes.  Dalton made mistakes, but it is ridiculous to blame everything on Dalton's mistakes and claim all the mistakes by the rest of the team don't matter.

And it is ridiculous to act like no other QB in the league ever misses on a pass.

Last week against the Bills, Tom Brady started the game 4 for 10. I couldn't believe it since he's the greatest QB in NFL history. There's no way he should throw incomplete passes!

(10-07-2019, 04:36 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Last week against the Bills, Tom Brady started the game 4 for 10. I couldn't believe it since he's the greatest QB in NFL history. There's no way he should throw incomplete passes!

THE DALTON GANG RIDES AGAIN!!!!! No matter how many times or how many future HOF qbs you and the rest of your gang compare him to he is and will always be a middle of the road, under achieving, not ready for prime time player.

(10-07-2019, 05:10 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: THE DALTON GANG RIDES AGAIN!!!!! No matter how many times or how many future HOF qbs you and the rest of your gang compare him to he is and will always be a middle of the road, under achieving, not ready for prime time player.

The wimpy whiners strike again.

When you disprove their logic they give up and just repeat unsubstantiated claims.

"It doesn't matter when a receiver drops a TD.  Other QBs complete plenty of passes when the defender drops the ball. Derp!"

(10-07-2019, 12:39 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Dalton sucks. 

He needs to be replaced.

Airtight argument if you ask me...

(10-07-2019, 01:52 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: I honestly think a lot of people don't watch the other games, just highlights. I see QBs all over the league making some similar mistakes. The issue here is that a lot of the time no one picks up the slack to overcome the obstacles. I'd also say Andy can't overcome obstacles on his own a lot of the time.

That said, I think it's time to move on for all parties involved. I just hope we find a QB that's at least as good, or it could be a long uphill climb for this team.

AJ has been doing it for years. Without his circus catches and freak athleticism, Dalton does not have what little success he’s had. And we’re seeing the result of him not having an elite WR to bail him out right now...

(10-07-2019, 02:09 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: totally daltons fault the defense couldn't stop the cardinals on sunday...

Did the defense miss a wide open Tyler Eifert for a TD?

That’s a throw a 9 year veteran HAS to make. And it was the difference in the game. But I guess if you like kicking FG’s you could do worse than Andy Dalton...

(10-07-2019, 05:49 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: AJ has been doing it for years. Without his circus catches and freak athleticism, Dalton does not have what little success he’s had.

Dalton had a Pro Bowl season in '16 when Green just played 9 games.

(10-07-2019, 05:52 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Did the defense miss a wide open Tyler Eifert for a TD?

Did Dalton drop a sure TD pass.

Did Dalton give up 521 yards?

It is absurd to pick just one play and claim that is the only play that counted in the entire game.

It is absurd to claim that no other QB ever throws a bad pass.

(10-07-2019, 05:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton had a Pro Bowl season in '16 when Green just played 9 games.

Was that his 7th alternate year, or 5th alternate? I always get them confused. 

(10-07-2019, 06:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is absurd to claim that no other QB ever throws a bad pass.

Who would ever do something that stupid? 

Why do you like strawman arguments so much?

(10-07-2019, 06:36 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Who would ever do something that stupid? 

Why do you like strawman arguments so much?

This is not a strawman.

When you say Dalton has to be replaced because of one incompletion in an entire game then you are implying that other QBs don't do that.