(10-08-2019, 05:17 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I wonder how typical this is when you completely revamp offensive and defensive schemes.

Either way, we apparently "have the right people", so this points specifically to coaching lol.

Generally teams have expectations that new coaches will make players better...not nearly every single player get worse.

The worst part is that Taylor thinks this team is one or two lucky breaks away from being 3-2. These ratings point to a team that has gotten significantly worse.

(10-08-2019, 07:15 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Yes it would that's was the whole point of the statement. 1 group not being able to do there Job would bring down the whole unit.  
As for Hart being worse well he wasn't that good to begin with.

The LB unit was terrible last year. It's not like they were great last year and bad this year.

Bottom line is players have regressed. Bates blows coverage and misses tackles. The LB's have nothing to do with that.

(10-08-2019, 08:38 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The LB unit was terrible last year. It's not like they were great last year and bad this year.

Bottom line is players have regressed. Bates blows coverage and misses tackles. The LB's have nothing to do with that.

Right the LBers not being able to do there Job wouldn't have an impact on other positions. 

(10-08-2019, 08:44 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Right the LBers not being able to do there Job wouldn't have an impact on other positions. 

The LB's were bad last year. The comparison is from this year to last year. It's a wash.

They're not making Geno Atkins rating decline for instance.

The o line was terrible last year but lost Boling and Glenn (to this point). The FO allowed our terrible o line to get worse. Then throw in no AJ green and that’s enough to explain why all of our offensive players have regressed. Those subtractions affect every player on offense.

Defense to me looks slightly better than Austin’s defense but worse than Marvin’s after he took over. Any way you cut it the defense is horrible but it was last year too. I don’t believe in Lou one bit, but this defense was still bad after Marvin took over last year so I think we are just lacking talent across the board on D.

I’m not a Marvin fan but if he couldn’t turn the defense into a respectable D when he took over as DC then I guess I can’t blame Lou too much. We just aren’t good and don’t have good players. I don’t see Lou as a long term answer, but I can’t see many DC’s being able to get this defense to middle of the pack status without a few major acquisitions. Maybe Zim could but even he would need some LB’ers at minimum

(10-08-2019, 09:02 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: The o line was terrible last year but lost Boling and Glenn (to this point). The FO allowed our terrible o line to get worse. Then throw in no AJ green and that’s enough to explain why all of our offensive players have regressed. Those subtractions affect every player on offense.

Defense to me looks slightly better than Austin’s defense but worse than Marvin’s after he took over. Any way you cut it the defense is horrible but it was last year too. I don’t believe in Lou one bit, but this defense was still bad after Marvin took over last year so I think we are just lacking talent across the board on D.

I’m not a Marvin fan but if he couldn’t turn the defense into a respectable D when he took over as DC then I guess I can’t blame Lou too much. We just aren’t good and don’t have good players. I don’t see Lou as a long term answer, but I can’t see many DC’s being able to get this defense to middle of the pack status without a few major acquisitions. Maybe Zim could but even he would need some LB’ers at minimum

We've given up a franchise record yards after 5 games. Seems worse than Austin's defense.

(10-08-2019, 08:56 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The LB's were bad last year. The comparison is from this year to last year. It's a wash.

They're not making Geno Atkins rating decline for instance.

1.) Genos numbers are worse though
2.)Vigil was actually better last season Especially at the start of last season when he had a 69 or 70 rating after 5 games. He also lead all NFL LBers with 15 run stops after said 5 games.
3.) Brown played less in the first 5 games  last season and also didn't play when the Defense had it's turn around at the end. Maybe he is the weakest link on the team 
4.) Teams are throwing the ball less on us this season then they were last year. Bates main strength is his coverage ability. Also it's not like teams are attacking us deep either.

(10-08-2019, 04:53 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: It could be adjusting to new system.  It could be coaching staff at specific positions.  It could be the offensive and defensive schemes.  It could be performance issues against particular opponents.  My guess is all of these are relevant in lowered PFF scores.

Time to play the "what if" game again...but, if they had the Oline they expected and AJ was never hurt, there's at least a good chance they're 3-2 right now instead of 0-5. 

(10-08-2019, 09:40 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: 1.) Genos numbers are worse though
2.)Vigil was actually better last season Especially at the start of last season when he had a 69 or 70 rating after 5 games. He also lead all NFL LBers with 15 run stops after said 5 games.
3.) Brown played less in the first 5 games  last season and also didn't play when the Defense had it's turn around at the end. Maybe he is the weakest link on the team 
4.) Teams are throwing the ball less on us this season then they were last year. Bates main strength is his coverage ability. Also it's not like teams are attacking us deep either.

The offense isn't scoring much combined with our run defense lacking I can see why teams wouldn't bother throwing deep. Just keep the chains moving, run the ball. If you don't make it you can get the ball back after the Bengals' offense punts it back to you.

 

(10-08-2019, 10:49 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Time to play the "what if" game again...but, if they had the Oline they expected and AJ was never hurt, there's at least a good chance they're 3-2 right now instead of 0-5. 

I'm sure Marvin felt the same way after losing Green, Eifert and Dalton for half the year last season, and he had a winning record at that point. Still got fired.

Seats will just get emptier as the season goes on. People still remember the 90's teams Mike Brown put out there and this team looks just like those.

 

(10-08-2019, 11:22 PM)BengalChris Wrote: The offense isn't scoring much combined with our run defense lacking I can see why teams wouldn't bother throwing deep. Just keep the chains moving, run the ball. If you don't make it you can get the ball back after the Bengals' offense punts it back to you.

 

The odd thing is our defense has given up the most yards through 5 games in franchise history...and YES - Teams are mainly attacking us with the run. That's shocking!

Usually passing stats are where teams put up big yardage.

(10-08-2019, 11:47 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The odd thing is our defense has given up the most yards through 5 games in franchise history...and YES - Teams are mainly attacking us with the run. That's shocking!

Usually passing stats are where teams put up big yardage.

Good LBs that fill gaps properly and have speed to cover the edges changes that. 

Their propensity for playing off WRs baffles me still though. They have corners good enough to press and when they drop back 5 yards at the snap on 3rd and 3, they're just giving a first down away and a guarantee that they'll be out there at least another 3 downs. 

Almost like hiring a QB Coach as a HC and letting him also call the offensive plays, and hiring your eighth choice at DC is not a good idea.

Shocking. Lol

(10-08-2019, 04:35 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Bobby Hart's rating is 6.4 points worse than last year. HOW is that possible? He was the worst starting RT in football and he's now worse.

I thought he had a good game against AZ.  

(10-08-2019, 10:49 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Time to play the "what if" game again...but, if they had the Oline they expected and AJ was never hurt, there's at least a good chance they're 3-2 right now instead of 0-5. 

I think that is how the front office and Taylor view things right now.  But I must say, even if we assume the Bengals "true" record is 3-2, that is one ugly 3-2 team.  They lack discipline, have poor mechanics, and make many mental errors.  I would not feel any better if the Bengals were 3-2 and winning the division.  

Hart was a terrible signing,  the O-Line is horrendous and the Bengals backers should be rated toward the lower end if not the worse in the NFL.  Bengals need to fix those two position groups and I still wish the Bengals would have convinced the Florida Gator coach to become the DC.   He looks like the real deal.  

(10-08-2019, 11:53 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Good LBs that fill gaps properly and have speed to cover the edges changes that. 

Their propensity for playing off WRs baffles me still though. They have corners good enough to press and when they drop back 5 yards at the snap on 3rd and 3, they're just giving a first down away and a guarantee that they'll be out there at least another 3 downs. 

Good point on the CB's...and just one point I want to make is that CB's fit better in certain schemes. I don't know that the Bengals look at that while scouting.

Didn't Marvin make corners play more man last year after he took over running the defense.

The Cardinals did seem to convert at will on us on 3rd down. Even 3rd and long with passes.

(10-08-2019, 04:53 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: It could be adjusting to new system.  It could be coaching staff at specific positions.  It could be the offensive and defensive schemes.  It could be performance issues against particular opponents.  My guess is all of these are relevant in lowered PFF scores.

I'd say you're right. A combination of several factors. It's hardly ever cut and dry. 

(10-09-2019, 11:01 AM)Wyche Wrote: I'd say you're right. A combination of several factors. It's hardly ever cut and dry. 

So why in particular does our team struggle to learn new systems? This doesn't happen to every team that changes coordinators/HC's.

It seems they struggled to learn Austin's system too.

Do we not target the right skills in draft picks?

(10-09-2019, 09:53 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Good point on the CB's...and just one point I want to make is that CB's fit better in certain schemes. I don't know that the Bengals look at that while scouting.

Didn't Marvin make corners play more man last year after he took over running the defense.

The Cardinals did seem to convert at will on us on 3rd down. Even 3rd and long with passes.

A lot of those conversions were due to what faulk alluded to.....too much cushion.

(10-09-2019, 11:07 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So why in particular does our team struggle to learn new systems? This doesn't happen to every team that changes coordinators/HC's.

It seems they struggled to learn Austin's system too.

Do we not target the right skills in draft picks?

I'm not 100% sure, to be honest, Pistons. Maybe our minimal scouting approach is not addressing "football smarts" vs pure physical talent? Maybe we're not good at the position coaching level? Whatever the case may be, yes, the defense has definitely fallen off the last few years. Even when Marvin stepped in and "dumbed" the system down, they struggled.