(10-08-2019, 11:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: That's worked out great lately.

As to the OP: Throwin Samoan

Okay, you believe Zac would pick Tua correct?

I wonder how long the fan base will "love" this top QB prospect?

One of the dynamic QBs will probably get hurt early, like RGIII and the pocket passers won't have the time to do much of anything since the OLine will still be pretty bad. So how long before the fan base turns on this top draft pick and want him gone?

I actually think we already have Dalton's replacement if we decided to move on from him. As to the ones in this upcoming draft, find the one that matches Finley and that would be the pick.


I will add the caveat about the OLine though. J. Williams could be a stud, we won't know until he plays. Price has been a disappointment, but could be a decent player with the right supporting cast around him. I know people seem to like Hopkins, but I am not sold on him, but again he could be better if the other spots played better. So depending who we get in FA or draft, our line next year could be much improved.

Possibly, but the point was who would Zac pick?

Tua is an obvious bust. He’s an Alabama system QB, surrounded by elite talent. And is only so hyped because he came in for a struggling Hurts in that championship and helped Bama win the title. He won’t do much at the next level.

Jake Fromm or Herbert would both be wins, IMO. Personally, I’m more a fan of Fromm. But I’d happily take either.

Absolute no to Tua

(10-08-2019, 08:10 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: If I were in Zac Taylor’s shoes I might go for the best offensive lineman available instead in the first round.

Agreed, unless some qb blows up. We need to win on the trenches more often. Our qb needs time as well as mixon.

(10-08-2019, 05:53 PM)Joelist Wrote: Assuming we have a really high first rounder (which sure looks likely), which first round QB do you think Zac Taylor would take it he takes one? Note I am not saying which one would I take, but which one do I think Zac would take?

Realistically there are three upper first round grade QBs as of now:

- Tua Tagovailoa

- Jake Fromm

- Justin Herbert

I have a weird feeling that Zac would pass on Tua and go Justin Herbert. The reasoning is that Herbert seems like Jared Goff with better ability to actually read defenses (from the scouting reports). Tua is definitely quality but may need to have an offense designed around his play style.

Too easy.

Zac knows that Jake Fromm will have all the national recognition due to his impending massive State Farm sponsorship deal. So he'll be primed to be a nationally known NFL superstar.

Jake Fromm State Farm

(10-09-2019, 12:28 AM)Joelist Wrote: Possibly, but the point was who would Zac pick?

The one closest to Finley. 

I believe we will not pick any of the top QB prospects.  Which will be criticized by many on here as a bad move.  Yet even if we drafted a top QB prospect, it will still be criticized by some on here.

What I would do, is get a list of those who want QB A or QB B before the draft.  Make a note of them and then see if they were a pro Dalton or Anti Dalton.  Then watch as they either defend or attack the pick after the draft, then see if they still defend or attack after the QB plays.

Take Mahomes, many on here love the guy.  Sure the kid has some highlights and a lot of things go his way.  However, the Colts game proved what I have been saying about him, which is that he is not a pocket passer and will struggle if you keep him in the pocket.  He missed a lot of throws after hurting his ankle, he missed a lot of throws against Jacksonville as well.  Of course his defenders will say he was hurt, which is true, but he wasn't able to scramble around until his WRs were wide open and he was overthrowing like crazy.  Since I wasn't a fan of Mahomes before the draft, would have been critical of him after the draft, I would be happy for the success but aware that Mahomes is limited. I would point out his limitations and then his fans would rush to his defense.

No matter what ZT does, to some it will be the wrong move.  Hell there will be fans screaming for Tua, he could pick Tua, those same fans would criticize the pick and if Tua tanks, would use that as an excuse to attack ZT even more.

(10-09-2019, 07:33 AM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: The one closest to Finley. 

I believe we will not pick any of the top QB prospects.  Which will be criticized by many on here as a bad move.  Yet even if we drafted a top QB prospect, it will still be criticized by some on here.

What I would do, is get a list of those who want QB A or QB B before the draft.  Make a note of them and then see if they were a pro Dalton or Anti Dalton.  Then watch as they either defend or attack the pick after the draft, then see if they still defend or attack after the QB plays.

Take Mahomes, many on here love the guy.  Sure the kid has some highlights and a lot of things go his way.  However, the Colts game proved what I have been saying about him, which is that he is not a pocket passer and will struggle if you keep him in the pocket.  He missed a lot of throws after hurting his ankle, he missed a lot of throws against Jacksonville as well.  Of course his defenders will say he was hurt, which is true, but he wasn't able to scramble around until his WRs were wide open and he was overthrowing like crazy.  Since I wasn't a fan of Mahomes before the draft, would have been critical of him after the draft, I would be happy for the success but aware that Mahomes is limited. I would point out his limitations and then his fans would rush to his defense.

No matter what ZT does, to some it will be the wrong move.  Hell there will be fans screaming for Tua, he could pick Tua, those same fans would criticize the pick and if Tua tanks, would use that as an excuse to attack ZT even more.

(10-09-2019, 12:28 AM)Joelist Wrote: Possibly, but the point was who would Zac pick?

I don't know ZT enough to say for sure, but I would want a big, strong-armed QB with good mobility.  I know those don't grow on trees, but the kid at OSU fits that mold.  I would rather address more issues elsewhere on the team with a trade of the early pick and go after Fields the next year.  Brady and Brees are seemingly the last of their kind in terms of limited mobility.  

You look at the success of Mahommes, Wilson, Watson, and even to a lesser extent, Allen in Buffalo, and they have great mobility to avoid the rush and extend plays.  Unless you have a really stout offensive line (we have had one in about 20 years), you need a QB with some mobility.  The more the better. 

(10-09-2019, 12:28 AM)Joelist Wrote: Possibly, but the point was who would Zac pick?

My gut says Joe Burrow from LSU.

(10-09-2019, 07:43 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

Trust me, we already know where you stand on this.

It will be interesting if you will come out in support of a particular prospect BEFORE they play a game in the NFL.  Then it will be interesting to see how much you defend that prospect if we lose games.

They will take Joe Burrow LSU because of his lively arm, mobility is better than Fromm, and he has an attitude. Tua would be their second choice. Tua is mobile, accurate and has a good attitude. God knows the Bengals will select players with team first attitude. They will need it!

I hope someone gives us the Ricky Williams trade offer and this time we do the right thing and take it, totally reversing our fortune, or maybe this time it's a trap and Tua wins 7 rings. I don't know anymore, the Bengals have scrambled my brain

(10-08-2019, 07:39 PM)scorp1974 Wrote: Probably Herbert and he will be a bust.  We need better scouts and a real GM.

every year  a few QBs go in the first round  most don't amount to much long term

(10-09-2019, 10:06 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: every year  a few QBs go in the first round  most don't amount to much long term

Now I don’t know Zac Taylor personally but if I could do a “Vulcan mind meld” with him my analysis of his thoughts would go something like this: “I loved the film I saw on Ryan Finley at NC State and he did well in the preseason albeit against second and third team defenses. I’ll let him learn the pro game under Andy Dalton like Carson Palmer learned it under Jon Kitna. We’ll keep Andy through 2020 but as a very capable backup and mentor to Ryan. Meanwhile, we need talent and better coaching up front.”

(10-09-2019, 10:06 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: every year  a few QBs go in the first round  most don't amount to much long term

Then we’ll continue to be bad and try for another one with a high pick in a few years.

We’ve seen there’s no guarantee our 1st round picks will be any good no matter what position. Personally, I’m tired of missing on OL. There’s other important positions that need addressed, like QB and LB.

(10-08-2019, 05:53 PM)Joelist Wrote: Assuming we have a really high first rounder (which sure looks likely), which first round QB do you think Zac Taylor would take it he takes one? Note I am not saying which one would I take, but which one do I think Zac would take?

Realistically there are three upper first round grade QBs as of now:

- Tua Tagovailoa

- Jake Fromm

- Justin Herbert

I have a weird feeling that Zac would pass on Tua and go Justin Herbert. The reasoning is that Herbert seems like Jared Goff with better ability to actually read defenses (from the scouting reports). Tua is definitely quality but may need to have an offense designed around his play style.

Kinda my thoughts too. I actually believe they missed the boat on Daniel Jones....seems like the perfect guy to run a WCO.

(10-09-2019, 10:28 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Personally, I’m tired of missing on OL.

Me too! You’re absolutely right but let’s think about this issue analytically. Are the Bengals truly “missing” on early offensive lineman picks? Statistically this looks like a binomial distribution to me: This is either poor scouting or poor coaching — and I lean toward the latter and here’s why:

Andre Smith, Kevin Zeitler, Cedric Ogbuehi, Jake Fisher, Billy Price, and Jonah Williams* were all highly graded in college. We can look at their film and in college all of these men were extremely accomplished. If the Bengals hadn’t taken them, other teams would have jumped at the chance. These players came to Cincinnati with impressive resumes and lots of championship level experience but what happened? While most professional teams “coach up” their players to the next level, the Bengals seem to coach their players down.

*I know we have no pro data on Jonah yet.

(10-08-2019, 08:24 PM)Joelist Wrote: I'm not so sure he does QB either - that was why I said IF he went QB.

If it were my choice I'd lean more towards Tua, partly because I am always leery of QBs from Oregon. Yes Herbert has the height, arm power and touch and can also run some. But Oregon QB and success in the NFL tend not to be the same thing. Tua and Fromm at least are from programs that have produced NFL starters of good quality in the past.

But, the question is who do I think ZAC would take? And as such Herbert is a lot like Jared Goff except Herbert per scouting reports can actually read and diagnose defenses at the line.

Has Alabama produced a good quality starter at QB since Ken Stabler though?

(10-09-2019, 10:47 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Has Alabama produced a good quality starter at QB since Ken Stabler though?

No.

For the past decade Alabama has been like Tebow’s time at Florida. Surrounded by elite talent, elite coaching, etc. it makes the QB look way better than they actually are. Now I’m not saying I think Tua will be as awful as Tebow was at the pro level, I’m just saying I don’t think he’s worthy of top 10 consideration, much less first overall. I think Tua will be like a Kirk Cousins at best, and a Jake Locker at worst. (Obviously I’m not comparing playing styles, I’m talking about success at the NFL level).

Whoever reaches for Tua will regret it, IMO.