(10-08-2019, 06:52 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Not sure why everyone is freaking out about this? First, consider the source of Hobspin. Second, even if it's true, consider the owner and this should not surprise you at all. These guys are stuck on the conclusion that they are just a play away from being competitive and that they should have won 3 of the 5 games they've lost now. They are not as quick to give up as the fans are right now and probably wont be for a few more losses. However, the trade deadline would have happened by then and it will be a hindsight 20/20 thing.

For everyone that's upset about it, then write Mike Brown an email or a personalized letter and mail it to him. Tell him your thoughts. However, don't be belligerent or he wont even consider reading the message in it's entirety and only reinforces his thoughts that he is smarter than you. He's been famous for writing fans back.

So basically, we can't believe it because Bengals.com wrote it. And, IF it is true...it's because we have bad ownership.

Bright times ahead fans!

(10-08-2019, 03:43 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: ..... Because they are idiots.

I look forward to Green walking in the off-season. 

If the Bengals do indeed wish to resign AJ then I would assume they would meet with him to find out where he is mentally. If he looks them in the eye and says he wants to go elsewhere next year then they would be silly not to trade him. I think AJ would be straight up with them as he has always been a class act and hasn’t pulled any punches. I would think that conversation either has to happen or already has.
I personally think it makes a lot of sense to trade him even though he has been a great player to root for as a Bengals fan. I would truly enjoy seeing him do well somewhere else and I haven’t really said that about many ex Bengals. JMO.

(10-08-2019, 04:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Or it could just mean that they did not get good enough offers.

Too many fans claim we should trade every one with out any though to the fact that every player we trade away creates another hole.

If we trade Geno for a second round pick what are the chances we get a player as good as Geno with that pick?  And that just gets us to "breaking even".

It is not that simple to rebuild an entire roster.

You don't trade Geno to get another player "as good", necessarily. You're talking about a guy coming out of college. If you get someone that becomes a solid starter (say an OG), it's a win/win. You got the capital to get the player and fix a spot on the line and you create a bit of cap space to go after a better FA. 

Of course, this is all spitting in the wind because that's not the Bengals MO. 

If i was sitting in the GM seat, i'd cut Hart and Andre, trade Geno and AJ, offer Dre and take whatever someone would give and then i would throw big money at Jack Conklin and Corey Littleton in FA, then i'd focus on OG, WR and LB in the draft. 

So next year's team would have Jonah back as well as having added Conklin. Hopkins, Price, and MJ are young, plus a (hopefully) good OG from the draft. Work on signing Mixon long term. You have a decent amount of WRs already on the team, lead by Boyd and on defense, they already have a lot of Dline, plus Littleton and Pratt heading the LBs with Brown and Vigil behind them and you have WJ3, Dennard and Phillips as your top 3 CBs. 

(10-08-2019, 11:40 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You don't trade Geno to get another player "as good", necessarily. You're talking about a guy coming out of college. If you get someone that becomes a solid starter (say an OG), it's a win/win. You got the capital to get the player and fix a spot on the line and you create a bit of cap space to go after a better FA. 

Of course, this is all spitting in the wind because that's not the Bengals MO. 

If i was sitting in the GM seat, i'd cut Hart and Andre, trade Geno and AJ, offer Dre and take whatever someone would give and then i would throw big money at Jack Conklin and Corey Littleton in FA, then i'd focus on OG, WR and LB in the draft. 

So next year's team would have Jonah back as well as having added Conklin. Hopkins, Price, and MJ are young, plus a (hopefully) good OG from the draft. Work on signing Mixon long term. You have a decent amount of WRs already on the team, lead by Boyd and on defense, they already have a lot of Dline, plus Littleton and Pratt heading the LBs with Brown and Vigil behind them and you have WJ3, Dennard and Phillips as your top 3 CBs. 

Yep. There's a big cap savings on Glenn too.

You could go the Buffalo route and add 22 free agents...which did help them. But, yes - I like your moves.

Also yes - Like you said, this is a philosophical exercise that we won't do. A team like the Dolphins will likely sign those guys.

So then, a rebuild here would mean 3 wins for several years.

(10-08-2019, 11:45 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yep. There's a big cap savings on Glenn too.

You could go the Buffalo route and add 22 free agents...which did help them. But, yes - I like your moves.

Also yes - Like you said, this is a philosophical exercise that we won't do. A team like the Dolphins will likely sign those guys.

So then, a rebuild here would mean 3 wins for several years.

If they decided to take the dip...i wouldn't go too hog wild like the Bills. If they were to sign Conklin and Littleton, they still have their own guys. 

Double D, Hopkins, Fedj and Billings are UFAs and they have Wilson and Tupou as RFAs. Vigil is a UFA but i'm kind of mehhh on him. They could probably get him pretty cheap anyway. 

So, that's at least 8 they have to sign next year. Nine if you count Vigil. 

(10-09-2019, 12:01 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: If they decided to take the dip...i wouldn't go too hog wild like the Bills. If they were to sign Conklin and Littleton, they still have their own guys. 

Double D, Hopkins, Fedj and Billings are UFAs and they have Wilson and Tupou as RFAs. Vigil is a UFA but i'm kind of mehhh on him. They could probably get him pretty cheap anyway. 

So, that's at least 8 they have to sign next year. Nine if you count Vigil. 

I'd probably add a Guard like Quentin Spain too.

Conklin/Miller/Hopkins/Spain/Williams would be a solid line.

Still need to get a backup tackle...and for a reasonable price...I'd be ok with Hart. Reasonable being $3 million a year. Then, Price as a backup C or Guard. MJ at Guard. Probably need 1 or 2 more quality backups.

Right or wrong, Mike Brown doesn’t believe in the “players for picks” strategy. He didn’t do it in the 1990s when he should have and he’s not going to do it now. Since 1991 Mikey Boy has used the same strategy — get a quarterback and assume everything else magically falls into place — and it just doesn’t work. David Klingler? Akili Smith? Jeff Blake? Gus Frerotte? Neil O’Donnell?

Trade him to the Chiefs for Watkins and a 2. Stick it to the Pats and we replace AJ.

(10-08-2019, 08:16 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: After scouting the Bengals I highly doubt other teams are really interested in our players. “NFL good” and “Cincinnati good” aren’t the same things.

That is a very good point.  The way we fans view our "star" players, and the way the rest of the world views them, are likely on completely different planes.  It's become obvious to me at least, that Geno and Carlos have both lost a step, when it comes to cornering a QB in the pocket.  It's likely that the rest of the world sees that the same way.

(10-08-2019, 03:46 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: This is the approach of a losing organization with no sense on how to fix things.  They appear to not understand the concept of when to cut bait.

They have no sense of why they have failed so that is why they have no sense on how to fix it.

This is all about AJ himself - if he wants to stay with the team, Mikey will be happy tom accommodate. If AJ decides to leave, Mikey will franchise him and piss him off.

(10-09-2019, 10:06 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Right or wrong, Mike Brown doesn’t believe in the “players for picks” strategy.  

Palmer, Rivers, and Ocho were all traded for draft picks.

McCarron was supposed to be traded for draft picks.

(10-09-2019, 10:14 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That is a very good point.  The way we fans view our "star" players, and the way the rest of the world views them, are likely on completely different planes.  It's become obvious to me at least, that Geno and Carlos have both lost a step, when it comes to cornering a QB in the pocket.  It's likely that the rest of the world sees that the same way.

I think the opposite can be true for our best players though...that in a normal organization their actual production would be higher.

With AJ Green, I certainly think that would be the case. IF the Falcons drafted him instead of Julio Jones, Green would likely have several 1600 yard receiving seasons.

Now guys like Nick Vigil...I doubt they go to some other team and become a star. We've seen that over and over where guys are bad here and go elsewhere and are bad.

But our great players like Justin Smith, Joseph, Spikes, etc...do go places and thrive.

(10-08-2019, 08:16 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: After scouting the Bengals I highly doubt other teams are really interested in our players. “NFL good” and “Cincinnati good” aren’t the same things.

(10-09-2019, 10:14 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That is a very good point.  The way we fans view our "star" players, and the way the rest of the world views them, are likely on completely different planes. 

In my experience Bengal fans are harder on their own players than the rest of the league.

Justin Smith was a bust who wouldn't start for most teams.

Whitworth couldn't handle speed rushers and needed to be moved back to OG.

Leon Hall was too slow to play CB.

Palmer sucked and was finished in 2010.

Domata Peko was so bad that playing him was "proof the Bengals don't care about winning".

(10-09-2019, 10:16 AM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: They have no sense of why they have failed so that is why they have no sense on how to fix it.

If this isn't true, then nothing is true.

(10-09-2019, 11:56 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think the opposite can be true for our best players though...that in a normal organization their actual production would be higher.

With AJ Green, I certainly think that would be the case. IF the Falcons drafted him instead of Julio Jones, Green would likely have several 1600 yard receiving seasons.

Now guys like Nick Vigil...I doubt they go to some other team and become a star. We've seen that over and over where guys are bad here and go elsewhere and are bad.

But our great players like Justin Smith, Joseph, Spikes, etc...do go places and thrive.

Those guys are pretty far removed from the current situation.  However, Joseph and Spikes thrived quite well here, and were highly regarded by the fan base.  For some reason, there just wasn't as much fan love for Justin Smith.

AJ Green would have been a star on any team that would have drafted him, thus the title "star" player.  Nick Vigil is pretty darned far from being a "star" player in everyone's eyes.  (One would think, at least)

What I was getting at is, as they stand, currently at this moment, our "star" players have their greatest return value to the team during this trade deadline leadup.  Once the season is over, AJ is a FA and only worth a 3rd round comp pick at best, where as right now, he might gather a 1st round pick.

(10-09-2019, 09:56 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'd probably add a Guard like Quentin Spain too.

Conklin/Miller/Hopkins/Spain/Williams would be a solid line.

Still need to get a backup tackle...and for a reasonable price...I'd be ok with Hart. Reasonable being $3 million a year. Then, Price as a backup C or Guard. MJ at Guard. Probably need 1 or 2 more quality backups.

Yep. I'd probably try to get a OG in the draft, but if they were in spending mode, i would cry over picking one up in FA. 

Hart would be be ok as a backup. I don't think he's too expensive next year and hit cap hit goes down as well. All his guaranteed money was up front. John Jerry is getting older, but he's been a pretty valuable backup at T this year. 

(10-09-2019, 10:14 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That is a very good point.  The way we fans view our "star" players, and the way the rest of the world views them, are likely on completely different planes.  It's become obvious to me at least, that Geno and Carlos have both lost a step, when it comes to cornering a QB in the pocket.  It's likely that the rest of the world sees that the same way.

AJ, Carlos and Geno are still "nfl good" players. Anyone else though...

(10-09-2019, 12:52 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Those guys are pretty far removed from the current situation.  However, Joseph and Spikes thrived quite well here, and were highly regarded by the fan base.  For some reason, there just wasn't as much fan love for Justin Smith.

AJ Green would have been a star on any team that would have drafted him, thus the title "star" player.  Nick Vigil is pretty darned far from being a "star" player in everyone's eyes.  (One would think, at least)

What I was getting at is, as they stand, currently at this moment, our "star" players have their greatest return value to the team during this trade deadline leadup.  Once the season is over, AJ is a FA and only worth a 3rd round comp pick at best, where as right now, he might gather a 1st round pick.

I think we're saying the same thing now that I see this explanation.

I feel like the only way they won't trade Green is IF they feel like getting Jonah back and adding a draft pick or two can turn us around next year. It's highly probable they think this way too.