(10-10-2019, 02:11 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: I've said this before, but if we were to trade Green, and have a top 5-10 pick (maybe even top 3), I hope our team would select Thomas followed by Kindley as our 1st rounders. 

An Oline with Williams Kindley Hopkins Price and Thomas would be stellar.  The thing that is really great about Williams and Thomas is that they both played RT and LT and both did so at a high level.

I also like the kid from Michigan Bredeson (spelling), so Thomas and Bredeson (in the 2nd) would be the other option, if we do keep Green.

I wouldn't be unhappy at all with 2 Oline picks in the first. 

I haven't been looking at T much in the draft. I'm kind of stuck on Conklin in FA right now...but with a knee injury and the price tag, it might not be the smartest move. 

It all pretty much depends on trades and what they get in return.

(10-10-2019, 01:44 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm curious to know what Green considers a fair offer.

Well, the team can't seem to win without him. Last year they went 1-6 and are 0-5 this season without AJ.

Dalton or no Dalton doesn't seem to be the difference. Jeff Driskel went 1-4 as a starter to end last season, without AJ.

Worse coaching this season is also a factor. This coaching staff is drowning and maybe they'll learn to swim or maybe they won't. But if things continue going the way they are going it's hard to see them surviving.

 

(10-10-2019, 02:24 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Well, the team can't seem to win without him. Last year they went 1-6 and are 0-5 this season without AJ.

Dalton or no Dalton doesn't seem to be the difference. Jeff Driskel went 1-4 as a starter to end last season, without AJ.

Worse coaching this season is also a factor. This coaching staff is drowning and maybe they'll learn to swim or maybe they won't. But if things continue going the way they are going it's hard to see them surviving.

 

Having a "learning on the fly" coaching staff seems more conducive to keeping Dalton here, though.  Until he's actually out the door I won't believe he's gone.  I could take or leave the guy, I just think it's interesting we've gone from being sure we were going to move AJ for a high pick and now he says he wants to stay and we are picturing a brand new QB throwing the ball to him.

I don't see how Mike Brown can want to stay the course with one guy and not the other.

My guess at this point, given the Bengals historical trend, is to re-sign Green to a 4-5 year extension at about 18 mil per. Bengals do not have creativity to solve problems and do not have the judgment to know when to cut bait and strike while the iron is hot.

This 2020 draft will have outstanding WR and is deep. The QB of the future will be in this draft. I do not think the Bengals will have a high draft two years in row so decisions must be made regarding priorities. Is Green a priority? I think QB, O-Line, and backers are certainly priorities.

Retaining vets that are not producing is typical of the Bengals organization. The team will continue to go down the path of underachievement until most of the fan-base disappears and they reclaim laughing-stock status. This is what Mike Brown has done for 3 decades and it doesn't seem to bother him. Lewis at least brought respectability to the team, but that respect is gone.

Winning does not seem a priority with Mike Brown.

(10-10-2019, 02:24 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Well, the team can't seem to win without him. Last year they went 1-6 and are 0-5 this season without AJ.

Dalton or no Dalton doesn't seem to be the difference. Jeff Driskel went 1-4 as a starter to end last season, without AJ.

Worse coaching this season is also a factor. This coaching staff is drowning and maybe they'll learn to swim or maybe they won't. But if things continue going the way they are going it's hard to see them surviving.

 

Hypothetically, would you rather have AJ Green for 2 years, $32 mill ($16 mill/year) or Amari Cooper for 4 years, $72 mill ($18 mill/year)?

(10-10-2019, 02:31 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Winning does not seem a priority with Mike Brown.

We only have 29 years of evidence to support that, don't you think you're jumping the gun a bit here?

(10-10-2019, 02:39 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Hypothetically, would you rather have AJ Green for 2 years, $32 mill ($16 mill/year) or Amari Cooper for 4 years, $72 mill ($18 mill/year)?

Cooper for sure but stats and logic do not factor in the Bengals ability to make the correct decision.  It is all about prior relationships and familiarity.  

(10-10-2019, 02:49 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Cooper for sure but stats and logic do not factor in the Bengals ability to make the correct decision.  It is all about prior relationships and familiarity.  

And that will be the telltale sign that nothing will change.
People were so optimistic going into the season because they assumed with the coaching change that there would be real actual change.
However, if this team continues to take the same approach to the offseason as it always has, it will continue to perform, at best, as a 1-and-done contender.

(10-10-2019, 02:52 PM)ochocincos Wrote: And that will be the telltale sign that nothing will change.
People were so optimistic going into the season because they assumed with the coaching change that there would be real actual change.
However, if this team continues to take the same approach to the offseason as it always has, it will continue to perform, at best, as a 1-and-done contender.

True.  It felt like a change was forthright during the off-season.  Mike Brown turned 84 this year.  I could see him involved for the next 6 years or so.  Until they get a competent GM, poor decisions will be made.  The team needs a football person that understands the modern NFL.  

(10-10-2019, 11:28 AM)Wyche Wrote: https://www.bengals.com/news/green-feeling-a-return-i-think-i-ll-be-the-same-guy

So, looks like Green has not refused an extension. If the money's right, he still envisions staying in Cincy and helping with the rebuild. No unnamed sources, straight from the horse's mouth.

I'm sorry but he's not larry, he hasn't won a playoff game let alone went to the Superbowl, but even if you use that example how well have the cardinals done all these years carrying his contract.

Money talks....Green talks...

(10-10-2019, 03:30 PM)Okeana Wrote: I'm sorry but he's not larry, he hasn't won a playoff game let alone went to the Superbowl, but even if you use that example how well have the cardinals done all these years carrying his contract.

I don't think he is saying he is Larry but he admires what he did. There are two sides, Green has his desires and the team may have similar or different desires. Him wanting to be here isn't a bad thing, and him thinking him being here is a good thing for the organization isn't a bad thing either. 

I think we'd be better of trading him, but you can appreciate a guy in today's NFL who wants to stay loyal to the team that drafted him even when everyone else is telling him to run. 

(10-10-2019, 02:56 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: True.  It felt like a change was forthright during the off-season.  Mike Brown turned 84 this year.  I could see him involved for the next 6 years or so.  Until they get a competent GM, poor decisions will be made.  The team needs a football person that understands the modern NFL.  

Maybe having a bad enough record and losing so much money from the fans being fed up might be enough for this to happen?

(10-10-2019, 03:34 PM)Au165 Wrote: I don't think he is saying he is Larry but he admires what he did. There are two sides, Green has his desires and the team may have similar or different desires. Him wanting to be here isn't a bad thing, and him thinking him being here is a good thing for the organization isn't a bad thing either. 

I think we'd be better of trading him, but you can appreciate a guy in today's NFL who wants to stay loyal to the team that drafted him even when everyone else is telling him to run. 

Great post.

(10-10-2019, 03:34 PM)Au165 Wrote: I think we'd be better of trading him, but you can appreciate a guy in today's NFL who wants to stay loyal to the team that drafted him even when everyone else is telling him to run. 

I suppose.  To me this is like marrying the first girl you ever kissed and saying you'd never want to be with anyone else ever ever ever, but hey I guess that works for some people. 

(10-10-2019, 03:50 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Maybe having a bad enough record and losing so much money from the fans being fed up might be enough for this to happen?

Ehh, does it really make sense for us to demand that Mike Brown make changes while applauding AJ Green for wanting to stay here no matter what?  If AJ Green doesn't care what Mike Brown does, why should we?  I just don't see how we can simultaneously yearn for someone or something to convince Mike Brown to change while the best player of the Mike Brown era says "I'm here no matter what" and we are like "Right on!"

I like Aj and won't be mad if he re-signs. I won't resent him for leaving either.

The main issue with extending both him and Dalton is the cap space that the extensions will consume. They're like 9 mil under now, and Dalton/Green extensions would likely eat up all of that plus some of the money gained when Cordy Glenn is let go.

The rest of the potential departures won't free up all that much, either. Add to that the other players like Billings and Jackson that should be re-signed, and you're entering cap hell with zero chance of acquiring any outside talent other than in the draft. Spoiler Alert: The roster sucks and outside talent is needed. In fact, I'd be surprised if they could even afford to extend all of the younger guys if Dalton/Green return.

You're going to have a shitload of money tied up in guys that are over 30, plus more tied up in trash players like Hart and guys they barely use like Gio.

They'd be setting themselves up to be in the same position they are right now, only with the same guys being a year older and in some cases injury-prone.

The roster needs to churn. They need at least 3 capable defensive starters a-la what Marvin got in 2003. They likely need another OL. This team will rot for another 3 years if it pays Green/Dalton big money extensions.

(10-10-2019, 04:01 PM)samhain Wrote: I like Aj and won't be mad if he re-signs.  I won't resent him for leaving either.  

The main issue with extending both him and Dalton is the cap space that the extensions will consume.  They're like 9 mil under now, and Dalton/Green extensions would likely eat up all of that plus some of the money gained when Cordy Glenn is let go.  

The rest of the potential departures won't free up all that much, either.  Add to that the other players like Billings and Jackson that should be re-signed, and you're entering cap hell with zero chance of acquiring any outside talent other than in the draft.  Spoiler Alert: The roster sucks and outside talent is needed.  In fact, I'd be surprised if they could even afford to extend all of the younger guys if Dalton/Green return.  

You're going to have a shitload of money tied up in guys that are over 30, plus more tied up in trash players like Hart and guys they barely use like Gio.  

They'd be setting themselves up to be in the same position they are right now, only with the same guys being a year older and in some cases injury-prone.  

The roster needs to churn.  They need at least 3 capable defensive starters a-la what Marvin got in 2003.  They likely need another OL.  This team will rot for another 3 years if it pays Green/Dalton big money extensions.

The easy fix is to offer them both lower end contracts and if they don't take them you can act like they were being disingenuous over how much they really wanted to spend their entire careers in Cincy, after all.  Sad.

It’s almost scary to think what Tom Brady could do with a healthy A.J.Green.

belicheat straps brady with no WRs and he (Bill and Tom) still crush everyone.

(10-10-2019, 04:29 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: belicheat straps brady with no WRs and he (Bill and Tom) still crush everyone.

Coaching Trumps everything else.

(10-10-2019, 03:58 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ehh, does it really make sense for us to demand that Mike Brown make changes while applauding AJ Green for wanting to stay here no matter what?  If AJ Green doesn't care what Mike Brown does, why should we?  I just don't see how we can simultaneously yearn for someone or something to convince Mike Brown to change while the best player of the Mike Brown era says "I'm here no matter what" and we are like "Right on!"

Eh, where did AJ Green say "I'm here no matter what?"