Many wanted Zimmer or Gruden to stay and replace Marvin. Gruden is not Hue in that he actually won some games with Washington. So, how about Gruden to replace Taylor or Tobin. Myself, I like the idea of Ohio born and Louisville QB of Arena League and Bengal coaching experience to play-offs and a Gruden in The Front Office. Gruden replacing Tobin and a higher job title.

The idea of Gruden helping young Taylor get the right coaches and players sounds better than anything Bengals are doing last few years with Tobin. Maybe not as good as Paul Brown working with young Walsh or Wyche, but Gruden back working with young Taylor sounds right. Gruden may cost more than Tobin but as even cheap bankers say, it's the cost of doing business.

Jay is a coach. Not a GM. I wouldn't see him replacing Tobin.

His niche is offensive coordinator.

all for Jay as OC....

(10-16-2019, 01:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Jay is a coach. Not a GM. I wouldn't see him replacing Tobin.

His niche is offensive coordinator.

and Paul Brown was a coach before he became an owner GM.   Bengals may want to think outside the box and niche. This thing is broken in a million pieces and The Brown Family Lawyers really could use a " Football Person "  in the Front Office which they haven't had since Paul Brown died.   Gruden has been with Bengals, knows some of these players still, knows front office.  Gruden could be just the ' Football Guy " this Front Office of Lawyers needs.   Sorry, the Brown Family have proven over 30 years they don't know what they are doing setting only loss records in NFL.   They are in dire need of a " Football Person " as Paul Brown was.  Gruden could be that person.  He could also help young Taylor as an old Paul Brown helped young Wyche in 1988. 

Denver has John Elway in the Front Office. Baltimore had Ozzie Newsome in the Front Office. All Bengals have is a team of lawyers all named Brown or Blackburn and none would make a good pimple on Paul Browns butt. Wyche is getting too old. I'm for bringing Gruden back in a front office Rebuild of the team capacity.

Given a choice between the Input of The Tobin Family and the Input of The Gruden Family, I choose the Gruden Football Family Football Knowledge over the Tobin Family Football Knowledge any day.

PS : Gruden would NOT come back here to be Taylors OC. Odds are against that. That's why I'm thinking Gruden more replacing Tobin who needs replaced. A Gruden to help bring in Offense & Defense players in free agency & the draft. Like Paul Brown with Wyche, able to go on practice field and help mentor young rookie coach Taylor.

I agree, Jay Gruden is a coach, and very average as a Head Coach, and moderately successful as an Offensive Coordinator. I can't think of a singe thing about him that says he would have any inclination toward being good at player/personnel management. Some of these ideas coming out on here lately, are really looking like feeble attempts at drawing straws.

(10-16-2019, 01:49 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I agree, Jay Gruden is a coach, and very average as a Head Coach, and moderately successful as an Offensive Coordinator.  I can't think of a singe thing about him that says he would have any inclination toward being good at player/personnel management.  Some of these ideas coming out on here lately, are really looking like feeble attempts at drawing straws.

The Brown Family is the worst Front Office in NFL since Paul Brown died.  Sticking with what they are doing is the idea that makes less sense than anything.   We can't get Jon Gruden, but we could get Jay Gruden back.  If not Jay Gruden , this Front Office of lawyers needs a Football Person and Tobin just isn't filling that bill per Last Place, Last Place, Last Place.

This Franchise needs to accept the incompetence from Paul Brown dying to Now. This Team needs a complete rebuild from Front Office down, not from water boy up. Jay Gruden of Gruden Family coming back sounds good to me. The Firm of Brown, Brown, Brown, Blackburn, Blackburn, Tobin and Brown Incorporated needs outside help because they are THE WORST front office in NFL over last 30 years. No play-off wins and most 0-4 starts to seasons.

Again, Baltimore had Browns/Ravens TE Ozzie Newsome in Front Office, but why would we want to do what Super Bowl Teams do ? Paul Brown knew football, his Kids don't. Tobin needs fired.

(10-16-2019, 01:57 PM)kevin Wrote: The Brown Family is the worst Front Office in NFL since Paul Brown died.  Sticking with what they are doing is the idea that makes less sense than anything.   We can't get Jon Gruden, but we could get Jay Gruden back.  If not Jay Gruden , this Front Office of lawyers needs a Football Person and Tobin just isn't filling that bill per Last Place, Last Place, Last Place.

If the team were to attempt to bring anyone from recent history back, in a managerial capacity, I would think that Marvin Lewis would be the man.

For all of the gripes and complaints that I had about him, in regard to his in-game coaching decisions and so forth, I always did and still do see him as a guy that "gets" the bigger picture.  When he was allowed to hire his own coaches, he brought in some good ones, and the team went on a nice run for 5 years.  It's also true that many have said that he has a good eye for talent, and he got good mileage out of many a "scrap heap" player in his time here.

Bring Marvin back, put him in charge of scouting, organizing the draft, and talent acquisition from current NFL teams (free agency and trades).  Keep Katie in charge of contract negotiations and Troy doing whatever he does, but keep their hands out of the talent selection game.  Let Marvin make himself available as a resource for young Zac Taylor to draw wisdom and advice from.

As far as Mike Brown and family goes on Marvin Lewis, I can think of no other person in the world that they would consider turning over "football operations" to, other than the man they have had a long and mostly healthy relationship with.

I would be completely OK with Gruden back to the Bengals, preferably as OC.

I will also say this...the offensive players drafted when Gruden was in Cincinnati were pretty good overall.
Green
Dalton
Boling
Zeitler
Sanu
Jones
Eifert
Bernard
Burkhead

Also, I didn't know this before just now, but Gruden actually was GM (and HC) of the Florida Tuskers in the UFL, so he has some GM-level experience.

(10-16-2019, 02:15 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If the team were to attempt to bring anyone from recent history back, in a managerial capacity, I would think that Marvin Lewis would be the man.

For all of the gripes and complaints that I had about him, in regard to his in-game coaching decisions and so forth, I always did and still do see him as a guy that "gets" the bigger picture.  When he was allowed to hire his own coaches, he brought in some good ones, and the team went on a nice run for 5 years.  It's also true that many have said that he has a good eye for talent, and he got good mileage out of many a "scrap heap" player in his time here.

Bring Marvin back, put him in charge of scouting, organizing the draft, and talent acquisition from current NFL teams (free agency and trades).  Keep Katie in charge of contract negotiations and Troy doing whatever he does, but keep their hands out of the talent selection game.  Let Marvin make himself available as a resource for young Zac Taylor to draw wisdom and advice from.

As far as Mike Brown and family goes on Marvin Lewis, I can think of no other person in the world that they would consider turning over "football operations" to, other than the man they have had a long and mostly healthy relationship with.

Marvin was terrible at finding good LB talent. For someone who was such a prominent LB coach, he sure failed in his specialty area.

(10-16-2019, 02:28 PM)ochocincos Wrote:
Marvin was terrible at finding good LB talent. For someone who was such a prominent LB coach, he sure failed in his specialty area.

No, he wasn't.  Pollack, Thurman, Rivers, Maualuga, Burfict.  Despite each of their individual issues, they were all highly talented players.  Marvin couldn't control things like broken necks, broken jaws, broken personalities, etc.  I'm guessing that the "management" told him that he couldn't keep spending good picks on LBs, for them to get destroyed or self-destruct.

(10-16-2019, 01:49 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I agree, Jay Gruden is a coach, and very average as a Head Coach, and moderately successful as an Offensive Coordinator. I can't think of a singe thing about him that says he would have any inclination toward being good at player/personnel management. Some of these ideas coming out on here lately, are really looking like feeble attempts at drawing straws.

People love to complain about our coaches having to double as scouts so I think looking at the offensive players we drafted while he was here would give us an indication.

He was here from 2011-13 and we grabbed:
AJ, Andy and Boling in 2011
Zeitler, Sanu and Marvin Jones in 12
And Eifert, Gio and Rex in 13.

We made the playoffs each year and the following 2 years with few misses on the offensive picks. Feels like we’ve missed a bunch since he left.

I’d say that’s at least a solid argument that he can evaluate talent

(10-16-2019, 02:42 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: No, he wasn't.  Pollack, Thurman, Rivers, Maualuga, Burfict.  Despite each of their individual issues, they were all highly talented players.  Marvin couldn't control things like broken necks, broken jaws, broken personalities, etc.  I'm guessing that the "management" told him that he couldn't keep spending good picks on LBs, for them to get destroyed or self-destruct.

All of those guys came over a decade ago aside from Burfict, and all were picked within the top 50 selections of their respective drafts.
And Burfict had Top 50 talent but went undrafted due to on-field character concerns.

My point is the Bengals drafted plenty of other LBs but only had good success with LBs with Top 50 talent. I expected Marvin would have been able to do a better job finding mid-to-late round guys and turning them into solid-or-better starters. 
That didn't happen.

(10-16-2019, 02:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: All of those guys came over a decade ago aside from Burfict, and all were picked within the top 50 selections of their respective drafts.
And Burfict had Top 50 talent but went undrafted due to on-field character concerns.

My point is the Bengals drafted plenty of other LBs but only had good success with LBs with Top 50 talent. I expected Marvin would have been able to do a better job finding mid-to-late round guys and turning them into solid-or-better starters. 
That didn't happen.

Have you ever taken a look at the NFL All Pro roster?  Every single LB on there was taken in the 1st or 2nd round.  When it comes to LBs, only a couple, or perhaps a small handful of really good ones come out each year.

(10-16-2019, 03:48 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Have you ever taken a look at the NFL All Pro roster?  Every single LB on there was taken in the 1st or 2nd round.  When it comes to LBs, only a couple, or perhaps a small handful of really good ones come out each year.

What about Pro Bowl? 
Heck, I just want a couple LBs who are rated 60+ on PFF. Is that so much to ask for? 
There are 42 LBs this season who hit that mark, none of which are on the Bengals.

(10-16-2019, 01:21 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: all for Jay as OC....

Yes if ZT allows him to call plays. I liked Jay because he made the scheme so that it played to Andy's strengths. 

(10-16-2019, 04:51 PM)ochocincos Wrote: What about Pro Bowl? 
Heck, I just want a couple LBs who are rated 60+ on PFF. Is that so much to ask for? 
There are 42 LBs this season who hit that mark, none of which are on the Bengals.

Pro Bowl is a meaningless popularity contest.  Everyone know's that the REAL NFL All-Star team is the All-Pro team.

(10-16-2019, 05:35 PM)MEBengalsFan Wrote: Yes if ZT allows him to call plays. I liked Jay because he made the scheme so that it played to Andy's strengths. 

If ZT allows that yes   got set aside that ego first..

(10-16-2019, 06:03 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Pro Bowl is a meaningless popularity contest.  Everyone know's that the REAL NFL All-Star team is the All-Pro team.

I get that but all Pro Bowlers are still good players. The Bengals hardly have anyone of even that caliber. Not this year anyway. About the only ones right now are Hopkins, Boyd, Atkins, Dunlap, and Billings.

If we get new HC, a I want a HC that has a winning record experience and is generally good. Like Reid, even if he tanks in the playoffs. That's what I was hoping for when Marvin was gone.

Nothing like enjoying a winning season and winning games.

Jay Gruden is not a good HC.  Donte Whitner said that players don't like him.  Go after Jim Harbaugh or Gary Kubiak if you want to be a good team.  Go after sub-par OC's or below average QB coaches if you want to walk around in sweatpants all day and let your unwashed gut hang out for all of society to see.