(10-19-2019, 09:02 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Everyone should read this over and over again.  I am not trying to say that the Bengals management have any such capabilities, but everyone on here would gladly accept what the Astros went through to get what they are now.

It is clear that it won't be Dalton, and likely not Green.  A part of me will always hurt over 2015.  That team was so much fun...in the beginning.  But they tried to take shortcuts.  Guys that were not reliable like Burfict and Adam Jones.  Incredible talents that always seemed to implode at the wrong moments.  I love Geno and Carlos, but I don't remember ever thinking that they were at their best in the biggest games.  The roster will have to turn over and I am not sure how many of the current coaches will survive.  I am sure they will give ZT every chance.  The odd choice at DC and offensive line coach, perhaps not so much.

However, if they start now with building the team from the trenches.  Get your offensive and defensive lines shored up in the next two drafts.  Combine that with some serious FAs at the LB, Safety, and perhaps offensive line positions and you can have a team that will be very competitive to surround a new, young QB.  I know everyone will throw the slow start of Dewayne Haskins at me, but that Justin Fields kid has incredible size, strength, arm, and mobility.  I want our next QB to be one that has wheels.  It seems much harder to build a tremendous offensive line (Only Oakland, Dallas, and New England have one) that it is to have a QB that makes defenses change their plan with their mobility:  Russell, Mahomees, Watson, Wentz, Murray are all this type of QB.  I would love to see Fields here in two years as he has the size and strength, but also outstanding mobility.  

And if the team addresses the lines BEFORE the skill positions this time, I think the likes of Boyd, Tate, Ross, etc. will show much more than they have already and whatever young QB gets the nod will also be in a much better position to be successful.  

Seriously though, that whole "build the line before you get the QB" is so antiquated, i get a subdural hematoma every time i read it. That thinking went out the window as soon as FA started. You can do both or get the QB first, just as easy these days. 

You are right. It is harder to replace 5 guys as opposed to 1 guy. It's also harder to accumulate 5 good offensive linemen and then pay them all within 5 years. That's why you get the QB, then build around him--as you said, a mobile QB. One that has wheels is a plus. That QB can last a decade+ and he will fit under the cap easier than multiple offensive linemen. 

If i never see that '70s thinking around here again...it will be too soon. 

Just to stay on topic, the Bengals have a potential franchise LT, they have a guy playing well (though declining every week--hopefully he picks up this week) at center. They have a bunch of guys to compete for other positions and they have some good draft positions coming up. And then there's a couple offensive linemen out there in free agency. 

They really do have the ability to fix the line in 1 season. 

(10-19-2019, 10:46 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well, they've copied the Rams playbook atleast. I don't see them using the TE's and RB's in passing...which I think are issues. Throw Mixon the ball on more than screens. When you can't run, do short passes!

What I don't see is the Bengals scouting opponents, identifying weaknesses, and attacking them with custom gameplans. The 49ers and Steelers did that to us. We use the same gameplan every game. And maybe that worked for the Rams who have superior personnel.

I gotta agree with you....and you're right, we don't have the personnel to dictate what we're going to do to our opponents. 

The reason I mentioned FSU is because they went from a pro style offense to a fast break, no huddle spread option. Obviously, the personnel didn't match up, and they were not fit enough physically to keep up with the demands. The team still doesn't have all of the right pieces, but they're at least in shape enough to keep up the pace. Also, Taggart did relinquish play calling duties after his first season.

(10-19-2019, 11:21 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Seriously though, that whole "build the line before you get the QB" is so antiquated, i get a subdural hematoma every time i read it. That thinking went out the window as soon as FA started. You can do both or get the QB first, just as easy these days. 

You are right. It is harder to replace 5 guys as opposed to 1 guy. It's also harder to accumulate 5 good offensive linemen and then pay them all within 5 years. That's why you get the QB, then build around him--as you said, a mobile QB. One that has wheels is a plus. That QB can last a decade+ and he will fit under the cap easier than multiple offensive linemen. 

If i never see that '70s thinking around here again...it will be too soon. 

Just to stay on topic, the Bengals have a potential franchise LT, they have a guy playing well (though declining every week--hopefully he picks up this week) at center. They have a bunch of guys to compete for other positions and they have some good draft positions coming up. And then there's a couple offensive linemen out there in free agency. 

They really do have the ability to fix the line in 1 season. 

Yep

The pure drop back passer have to have a stud Oline, it's still 1973 line of thinking just won't go away. 

(10-19-2019, 10:57 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Full contact is step 5 of the progression. In order to be cleared for step 5, the player has to participate in step 4 and be symptom free for 24 hours. Wednesday was Glenn’s first day back at practice, right?  If Wednesday was his first day back at practice and he had been cleared for step 5 then when did he pass step 4 so he could advance to step 5?

I don't know. I'd guess that's an internal thing and they don't announce each step once they're cleared because, i'd imagine, there is a possibility for relapse at any time. 

If he's announced a "full go", that means literally everything. Same as with him listed as FP on the injury report on Wednesday before it was changed to DNP with a NIR (not injury related) on Thursday and Friday. 

The smoking gun seems to be the blowup and him leaving, asking to be traded, because the Bengals expected him on the field, ready to go, and he didn't feel he was ready. Like the link i posted before, that's not in his hands to decide. The docs say when he's ready and when they say go, he's expected to go. I think that backs up your argument that he's not dogging it. He was cleared, but didn't feel he was ready to play in a game yet. That's when the dispute/walkout/fine happened. 

(10-19-2019, 11:30 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I don't know. I'd guess that's an internal thing and they don't announce each step once they're cleared because, i'd imagine, there is a possibility for relapse at any time. 

If he's announced a "full go", that means literally everything. Same as with him listed as FP on the injury report on Wednesday before it was changed to DNP with a NIR (not injury related) on Thursday and Friday. 

The smoking gun seems to be the blowup and him leaving, asking to be traded, because the Bengals expected him on the field, ready to go, and he didn't feel he was ready. Like the link i posted before, that's not in his hands to decide. The docs say when he's ready and when they say go, he's expected to go. I think that backs up your argument that he's not dogging it. He was cleared, but didn't feel he was ready to play in a game yet. That's when the dispute/walkout/fine happened. 

That may be the case, but what did he expect when they're playing an out of work G at LT, and much of the team is the walking wounded? Williams played hurt, Dennard is most likely going to play this week after being hurt....neither of two guys are likely game ready, but the team is out of options, and they know it. So they're sacking up and at least making an effort to play. Glenn, not so much. To me, Williams playing on one leg, and Gio speaking to his teammates after Baltimore shows the locker room is not lost, but maybe a cancer or two needs cut out. 

(10-19-2019, 11:21 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Seriously though, that whole "build the line before you get the QB" is so antiquated, i get a subdural hematoma every time i read it. That thinking went out the window as soon as FA started. You can do both or get the QB first, just as easy these days. 

You are right. It is harder to replace 5 guys as opposed to 1 guy. It's also harder to accumulate 5 good offensive linemen and then pay them all within 5 years. That's why you get the QB, then build around him--as you said, a mobile QB. One that has wheels is a plus. That QB can last a decade+ and he will fit under the cap easier than multiple offensive linemen. 

If i never see that '70s thinking around here again...it will be too soon. 

Just to stay on topic, the Bengals have a potential franchise LT, they have a guy playing well (though declining every week--hopefully he picks up this week) at center. They have a bunch of guys to compete for other positions and they have some good draft positions coming up. And then there's a couple offensive linemen out there in free agency. 

They really do have the ability to fix the line in 1 season. 

Our OL is mostly cast offs. We're 4 linemen away from a good line. You can get away with one and maybe two lessor linemen, but not 4.

 

(10-19-2019, 11:35 AM)Wyche Wrote: That may be the case, but what did he expect when they're playing an out of work G at LT, and much of the team is the walking wounded? Williams played hurt, Dennard is most likely going to play this week after being hurt....neither of two guys are likely game ready, but the team is out of options, and they know it. So they're sacking up and at least making an effort to play. Glenn, not so much. To me, Williams playing on one leg, and Gio speaking to his teammates after Baltimore shows the locker room is not lost, but maybe a cancer or two needs cut out. 

When i said he didn't feel he was ready...that could have been a nice way to say he simply didn't want to play on this team. I've never seen him as a tough, team guy, so it wouldn't/doesn't come as a surprise if he just wanted to be designated healthy (which could improve his trade options) but not want to get out there and get hurt on a bottom 3 team. 

(10-19-2019, 11:38 AM)BengalChris Wrote: Our OL is mostly cast offs. We're 4 linemen away from a good line. You can get away with one and maybe two lessor linemen, but not 4.

 

I'd say 3 away. Jonah coming in, Hopkins at Center are set right now. That's where all the guys they already have (competing), the draft and free agency come in, to fill the other 3 spots. 

There's a mauler G at Georgia and a couple T's coming out next year and there are a few options at G and T in free agency next year. As i've said in a couple other threads, a lot would be dependent on them getting another pick in rd1, via trading a current player, but it's doable. 

(10-19-2019, 11:40 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: When i said he didn't feel he was ready...that could have been a nice way to say he simply didn't want to play on this team. I've never seen him as a tough, team guy, so it wouldn't/doesn't come as a surprise if he just wanted to be designated healthy (which could improve his trade options) but not want to get out there and get hurt on a bottom 3 team. 

I gotcha....sure seems to be the case.

(10-17-2019, 04:31 PM)Nately120 Wrote: This whole concept of players not wanting to be here reminds me of my buddy back in the day who said "Someday I'll find a woman who is good enough that I won't want to cheat on her."  I feel like we need to really nail the drafts to find more players like AJ Green who find some sort of perverse pleasure in throwing their entire careers into the hell pit that is the Bengals.

I can almost hear the predraft interview. "Do you want to play in the dumpster fire that is the Bengals?"
"ABSOLUTELY! I want to play for the worst team in the world just to prove it can be done!" 
"We're gonna draft you in the first round!...ok,maybe sign you as a college free agent. But first, do you have any serious injuries that can keep you from actually playing?"
"Well I did get told I'll need my skull amputated at some point."
"Your future is set in stone here."

Everyone seems to think the pass protection isn’t an issue — which it is — but why isn’t anyone complaining about the worst run blocking in NFL history?

(10-19-2019, 02:31 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Everyone seems to think the pass protection isn’t an issue — which it is — but why isn’t anyone complaining about the worst run blocking in NFL history?

Yes. Run blocking is actually worse. The pass protection is actually decent at points, but bad at other times.

Against the Ravens the pass pro was above average.

Is Billy Price a lost cause at this point? Keep reading about potential of Williams and Hopkins, but nothing on Price. I say we trade him while we can if that is the case.

(10-19-2019, 11:45 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I'd say 3 away. Jonah coming in, Hopkins at Center are set right now. That's where all the guys they already have (competing), the draft and free agency come in, to fill the other 3 spots. 

There's a mauler G at Georgia and a couple T's coming out next year and there are a few options at G and T in free agency next year. As i've said in a couple other threads, a lot would be dependent on them getting another pick in rd1, via trading a current player, but it's doable. 

I wasn't counting Jonah because he's not playing this year. Realistically, counting Jonah and assuming he plays well, we need a RT badly, at least 1 guard and another OT to backup Jonah. Going into this year with only 3 OTs was a bad mistake.

That's tough to get done in one draft. Can't count on upgrades in free agency from Mike Brown.

 

(10-19-2019, 03:39 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Is Billy Price a lost cause at this point? Keep reading about potential of Williams and Hopkins, but nothing on Price. I say we trade him while we can if that is the case.

Not sure what to make of him at this point....but he has definitely struggled.

(10-19-2019, 11:28 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yep

The pure drop back passer have to have a stud Oline, it's still 1973 line of thinking just won't go away. 

Yep, Lamar just highlighted it in his resume last time we played how 2019 should be. :andy:

The big fat blocking linemen of the 70s became big, athletic, fast rushers.

(10-19-2019, 03:55 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I wasn't counting Jonah because he's not playing this year. Realistically, counting Jonah and assuming he plays well, we need a RT badly, at least 1 guard and another OT to backup Jonah. Going into this year with only 3 OTs was a bad mistake.

That's tough to get done in one draft. Can't count on upgrades in free agency from Mike Brown.

 

That's what i'm saying. They can get a G (draft) and T (FA), then the guys they have starting now are depth or fighting for the other G spot. 

True, can't count on it with the way the Bengals do things, but it can be done. 

(10-19-2019, 03:39 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Is Billy Price a lost cause at this point? Keep reading about potential of Williams and Hopkins, but nothing on Price. I say we trade him while we can if that is the case.

Well the Browns just traded a former 1st Round pick on the line to the Rams. We'd be lucky to get a 5th for Price.

He grades out pretty much terrible pass blocking. Like some of the lowest grades I've seen. Run blocking, he's not even average...but much better than his pass blocking. I'd still call it inadequate.

I don't know. This is his 2nd coach. Last year injuries were blamed. He supposedly muscled up over the off season...and he's still bad.

Some of his issue appears to be technique to me. He gets out of position and they truck him and put him on the ground.

(10-19-2019, 03:55 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I wasn't counting Jonah because he's not playing this year. Realistically, counting Jonah and assuming he plays well, we need a RT badly, at least 1 guard and another OT to backup Jonah. Going into this year with only 3 OTs was a bad mistake.

That's tough to get done in one draft. Can't count on upgrades in free agency from Mike Brown.

 

Can we really count on Jonah playing well? I mean, on paper he should...but so should Price. So should atleast 1 of Ced or Fisher.

Plus, they're throwing him in at LT and he's away from playing for a year.

I'd say there's atleast some risk.

(10-19-2019, 05:19 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: That's what i'm saying. They can get a G (draft) and T (FA), then the guys they have starting now are depth or fighting for the other G spot. 

True, can't count on it with the way the Bengals do things, but it can be done. 

They almost certainly won't sign a Tackle in free agency. It's a premium position and there aren't a lot of them. The cost will be soo high too.

I agree though that they should try. We just both know it's not their MO.