(10-23-2019, 11:32 AM)jason Wrote: They aren't stacking the box though. I was surprised to find that out myself. They're getting shut down with 7 in the box. That's how bad we've been.

They're bad because when an Olineman isn't blowing a 1 on 1 matchup, a LB or S is filling a hole, unblocked. 

(10-23-2019, 12:48 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'm feeling the same way a bit. I've seen him get hit in the backfield, a lot ! But I've also seen where it sure seems there were holes open to this side or that and he runs into the pile. 

He's not getting the opportunity to do anything. He get's blown up in the backfield and Taylor throws the ball. He makes a good run and Taylor...throws the ball.

Last year, after 7 games played, he had 116 rushing attempts. He had less than 15 rushes in 3 of those games. 
This year, after 7 games played, he has 84 rushing attempts. He's only had 2 games with  15 rushing attempts this year and those were 4.0 and 4.1 yards per carry games. 

It’s hard to believe that an offensive line could actually be this bad at Run blocking.There has to be other factors involved. The coaches need to get it figured out. Most of what this team is doing bad just keeps pointing to bad coaching.

(10-23-2019, 11:05 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: Turner must really be a nightmare to work with/for.   I can only imagine the stories that will eventually come out from there. From leader to loser in the AFC in yardage doesnt just happen just because.

  That's part of my theory also. Players just aren't buying into the technique that he's teaching. Plus I don't think the offense (save for Andy and few WRs) is buying into Zac's schemes and/or play calling. 

Hell, if we can see it, I'm 100% sure they can...

(10-23-2019, 09:44 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001068689/article/frustrating-bengals-struggle-to-get-joe-mixon-going

Cincinnati averages 53.1 rush YPG and allows 189.0 rush YPG this season. The 135.9 rush YPG differential is the worst by any team in a season since the 1950 Baltimore Colts (-140.9).

It's so bad I have to question, is it really just that the Oline is that bad ? I mean I get it our starters are marginal at best. But don't other factors have to be contributing to the awfulness ?

Bad blocking technique ?

Are we tipping our run plays somehow ?

Are we to predictable ?

Do we need a fullback ?

Like Pistons has said we've fielded basically the same Oline as last season a lot of the time. It just seems to me there's more going on here than just how bad the players are.

NO BLOCKING

NO BLOCKING

NO BLOCKING

Mike Brown saying for 30 years, " Why should I pay Guards and Offensive Linemen ". 

What is wrong with the running is also what is wrong with the passing the last 3 years.  THE WORST Offensive Line in the NFL

NO BLOCKING

forget technique, play calling,  Tell Pistons that the O Line from 2018 year AND 2017 before were worst O Lines in NFL also. 

The Players we have on O Line last 3 years, no other NFL team would want.  The worst starting 5 in NFL last 3 years. 

Add in now the WORST TACKLING Defense in NFL last 2 years, and Bengals always in Last Place is NO SURPRISE. NO BLOCKING or TACKLING.

Yet many would ignore the awful Blocking and Tackling and draft another finesse player such as quarterback. This is a team in dire need of good young talent on O Line and on Defense. Many blockers and tacklers need Fired from this team because they are THE WORST players in the NFL. I would hold off on quarterback draft picks and bring in all new blockers and tacklers because these guys on Bengals Stink. Last Place last year and 0-7 so far this year.

BENGALS ARE A LOUSY TEAM and were LOUSY last few years.

NO RUN LANES....NO PASSING LANES....NO BLOCKING.....on Defense, NO TACKLING....SO NO WINS.

I have seen something that might work. Mixon goes for an outlet pass off the pocket and Dalton keeps throwing the football down field. It is as though Dalton doesn't see how wide open Mixon is at the time. I saw this numerous times last week. Dump the ball off to Mixon and it is as good as a run.

(10-23-2019, 09:44 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001068689/article/frustrating-bengals-struggle-to-get-joe-mixon-going

Cincinnati averages 53.1 rush YPG and allows 189.0 rush YPG this season. The 135.9 rush YPG differential is the worst by any team in a season since the 1950 Baltimore Colts (-140.9).

It's so bad I have to question, is it really just that the Oline is that bad ? I mean I get it our starters are marginal at best. But don't other factors have to be contributing to the awfulness ?

Bad blocking technique ?

Are we tipping our run plays somehow ?

Are we to predictable ?

Do we need a fullback ?

Like Pistons has said we've fielded basically the same Oline as last season a lot of the time. It just seems to me there's more going on here than just how bad the players are.

I'd say yes, to each of those items.  And it's especially frustrating to see the defenses reacting instantly to our "personnel changes" from play to play.  They need to find a formation and personnel grouping that they can at least have a chance of running somewhat effectively from, and stay in it.

Some might say that staying in their best power formation will limit the passing game.  I say "so what"?  It's not like they're giving time enough for downfield routes to develop anyway, they can dink and dunk just as easily from 12 or 21 personnel as they can from 11.

(10-23-2019, 08:23 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: To add to my last post, last season we were regularly employing 12 personnel and running well out of it.  This season we run 11 personnel as a base, and it is not conducive to a run heavy offense.  It worked in LA because of the strong line and a RB who was an MVP candidate.

Personally I would prefer 21 personnel with a FB leading the way.  I would even settle for the Hewitt style H-back if it means we get a lead blocker out of it.

One last tidbit, I heard a (former?) oline coach on Movin' the Chains while driving home make the statement that the vast majority of current NFL linemen just don't have the skills to handle current dlinemen 1 on 1. This severely hampers things.

Yep

I do believe the talent/skill level of Olinemen coming out of college has dwindled quite a bit over the last several years. Why not at this point put a FB in as your base formation ?

(10-23-2019, 09:59 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: He's not getting the opportunity to do anything. He get's blown up in the backfield and Taylor throws the ball. He makes a good run and Taylor...throws the ball.

Last year, after 7 games played, he had 116 rushing attempts. He had less than 15 rushes in 3 of those games. 
This year, after 7 games played, he has 84 rushing attempts. He's only had 2 games with  15 rushing attempts this year and those were 4.0 and 4.1 yards per carry games. 

That sure makes a difference

(10-24-2019, 08:56 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'd say yes, to each of those items.  And it's especially frustrating to see the defenses reacting instantly to our "personnel changes" from play to play.  They need to find a formation and personnel grouping that they can at least have a chance of running somewhat effectively from, and stay in it.

Some might say that staying in their best power formation will limit the passing game.  I say "so what"?  It's not like they're giving time enough for downfield routes to develop anyway, they can dink and dunk just as easily from 12 or 21 personnel as they can from 11.

Why is ZT so determined to stay with the 11 personnel when it's obviously not working with our current players ?

Put in a damn FB !

It sure seems like we have like 20 plays and that's all we run. I believe it was last week where I read we were in 11 personnel like 83% of the time. Most in the NFL.

(10-24-2019, 09:19 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Why is ZT so determined to stay with the 11 personnel when it's obviously not working with our current players ?

Put in a damn FB !

It sure seems like we have like 20 plays and that's all we run. I believe it was last week where I read we were in 11 personnel like 83% of the time. Most in the NFL.

Indeed. The playbook seems VERY limited to amount of plays. 20 is being generous.

(10-24-2019, 09:52 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Indeed. The playbook seems VERY limited to amount of plays. 20 is being generous.

With guards who don’t pull and tackles who don’t push there are only a finite amount of possible plays to be run under those constraints.

(10-24-2019, 09:19 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Why is ZT so determined to stay with the 11 personnel when it's obviously not working with our current players ?

Put in a damn FB !

It sure seems like we have like 20 plays and that's all we run. I believe it was last week where I read we were in 11 personnel like 83% of the time. Most in the NFL.

Have to have one on the roster before you can put one in the game...

My secret conspiracy theory is they decided to tank this season even before it started. 
What?  THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!  There's no such thing as teams sucking on purpose!  
But humor me for a moment and let's pretend they actually make some big trades for picks to teams with both high draft pick capital and a few really solid players we could actually use combined with tanking for the top draft picks..  No wait.. Skip the player part of the equation. Just get a boat load of top picks then do the same thing next year.. So in two years it may be possible to just about completely rebuild, but that would require A. Advanced planning and B. Someone who knows how to pick really good players and to coach them right..
Like I said..humor me and let's pretend..   
Heck, let's REALLY pretend they won't pick players that require surgery before the season starts..  I love fantasies.