(10-26-2019, 10:56 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Let Findley and Jake QB the team after the bye, alternate them each week and treat the rest of the year like preseason. Why not?

That’s not the Bengal Way, as much as we would like it to be. Mike Brown pays starters to start, not to sit. He’s proven that since 1991.

(10-26-2019, 10:39 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Then we both agree that their results are not valid.

You can't use a source to support your position and then admit that source is not valid.

You love to go to the extremes to try and make your point. If you want to live that way, more power to you. I'm not gonna do it.

And no, i don't agree that their results are not valid. And no, that doesn't mean i have to agree with them grading Dalton higher in '18 than '15.

You're arguing apples to oranges again. A quarterback rating that's higher one year than the other can show a QB was "better" in that year. A grade, based on game to game play, contextually, can say he played better in the year that his statistics were less. 

Your lack of understanding/believing context and you habit of creating situations that aren't there continue to trip you up. 

(10-26-2019, 10:56 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The reality is every player should understand if we go to 0-8, they have not earned playing time. A lot of starters have underperformed.

So why not give Findley and others their chance to prove they can play in the NFL by giving him and others more snaps and some vets less snaps.

The idea the team would say ZT has given up has no merit when the guys paid to do well have not. done well.

Let Findley and Jake QB the team after the bye, alternate them each week and treat the rest of the year like preseason. Why not?

i agree except for alternating the QBs. Finley is #2 and deserves the chance to prove himself or not. If he fails from the get go, then later i could see Dolegala getting in the last couple games, but i'm not really sure how ready he is to step onto an NFL field against #1's. They may not want to play him at all this year. 

I can see making a case for waiting till after the bye. If (when ) they're 0-8 and they still going exactly nowhere, i can see where they gave it a shot, it didn't work, then they make changes when they have 2 weeks to prepare new players and then see how the rest of the season plays out. It's frustrating (if) the changes make a difference and we look back and say "what if they pulled the trigger sooner" but that's exactly the way the Bengals operate. Always the reactors, never the actors. 

The most likely scenario, though, is them playing out the season with Dalton out there every single game, every single drive, every single down. 

(10-26-2019, 11:07 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: And no, i don't agree that their results are not valid. And no, that doesn't mean i have to agree with them grading Dalton higher in '18 than '15.

Why would you not agree with results that are valid?

(10-26-2019, 11:15 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Why would you not agree with results that are valid?

I'm not going to keep jumping down in the hole and playing in your dirt. I've explained my position, fully and adeqately. 

P.S. This is that lack of context i was talking about.

(10-26-2019, 11:15 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: The most likely scenario, though, is them playing out the season with Dalton out there every single game, every single drive, every single down. 

...and that’s exactly what will happen. Like I said to Fred in another thread, Mike Brown pays starters to start — not to sit. Would I like to see Ryan Finley play? Yes, but not behind this offensive line. No rookie deserves that. Andy Dalton, for better or worse, has had time to learn to function within a dysfunctional offense. We’ll never see how good Ryan is on the current iteration of the Bengals’ offense.

(10-26-2019, 11:41 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: ...and that’s exactly what will happen.  Like I said to Fred in another thread, Mike Brown pays starters to start — not to sit.  Would I like to see Ryan Finley play?  Yes, but not behind this offensive line.  No rookie deserves that.  Andy Dalton, for better or worse, has had time to learn to function within a dysfunctional offense.  We’ll never see how good Ryan is on the current iteration of the Bengals’ offense.

I'm not worried about Finley behind this line. He showed an ability to move and create space in the PS, and while they were backups, they were still trying to get to the QB and make the team. I'd figure it would take time to adjust to the speed of #1 D players, but i think he could adapt. 

Dalton just isn't the answer because he needs an entire, healthy roster to play well enough to compete for a SB. Finley may not be the answer either but i'd like to find that out before the 2020 draft to see if they need to take a QB in the 1st.

I'm not worried (relatively) about the Oline because you can still draft and sign FA to fix that...which is where the "relatively" part comes in. It would have to be something the Bengals don't normally do--sign a big money T/G to fill a spot and then, fingers crossed, Jonah is good at LT and they can draft another T/G. 

(10-26-2019, 11:59 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I'm not worried about Finley behind this line. He showed an ability to move and create space in the PS, 

Giants sacked him 3 times in just 2 quarters.

I liked what I saw out of Finley in the preseason, but I don't think he will do very well playing in our current situation.

(10-26-2019, 12:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Giants sacked him 3 times in just 2 quarters.

I liked what I saw out of Finley in the preseason, but I don't think he will do very well playing in our current situation.

He may not. But i'd rather find out just where he stands, so they have a better idea of what to do going forward. 

I don't think the line is so bad that it wouldn't be able to get a good read on him. 

(10-26-2019, 12:36 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I don't think the line is so bad that it wouldn't be able to get a good read on him. 

I agree.  There are a lot of things the coaches will be able to tell about him even if his numbers are crap.

But I also bet the fans will only give him about two weeks if he sucks before they start calling for Dolegala.

"We need a bigger QB who can take the hits.  Thinley just can't cut it."

(10-26-2019, 12:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I agree.  There are a lot of things the coaches will be able to tell about him even if his numbers are crap.

But I also bet the fans will only give him about two weeks if he sucks before they start calling for Dolegala.

"We need a bigger QB who can take the hits.  Thinley just can't cut it."

Two weeks might be a bit generous.

(10-26-2019, 12:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I agree.  There are a lot of things the coaches will be able to tell about him even if his numbers are crap.

But I also bet the fans will only give him about two weeks if he sucks before they start calling for Dolegala.

"We need a bigger QB who can take the hits.  Thinley just can't cut it."

For the record, I don't see Findley or Jake as a franchise QB, I want them to audition (play) to see if they can be reliable back ups., neither has the mental skills of AD yet, not even close.

(10-26-2019, 12:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I agree.  There are a lot of things the coaches will be able to tell about him even if his numbers are crap.

But I also bet the fans will only give him about two weeks if he sucks before they start calling for Dolegala.

"We need a bigger QB who can take the hits.  Thinley just can't cut it."

Cryin Thinley just can't cut it!  Put in Body By Jake Dolegala. 

(10-26-2019, 06:25 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: For the record, I don't see Findley or Jake as a franchise QB, I want them to audition (play) to see if they can be reliable back ups., neither has the mental skills of AD yet, not even close.

Oh yeah..Andy is synonymous with mental skills.. and cussing .. 

Finley now. What's the purpose, are we saving him? He's our backup QB. We're 0-7. Saving him for what?

Afraid that he's better than Dalton is the issue. Invest too much into 1st QB, problem be.

Really, let us fans watch something different than the trash that's put out there every week for 3 hours, with 2 seconds of AJ Green rolling his eyes, on repeat.

Forest Gregg benched Kenny Anderson for a game, and I believe it was the same year they went to the Super Bowl.

Give Ryan the keys, let him sink or swim

whats the worse he can do, play like the kid in Carolina who carried his team (until today)

Starting Finley will do absolutely nothing in the win/loss column. And in truth I would be torn either way. Sure, Finley needs a look in real time. He is likely not the future, agreed. Dalton certainly is not.

Problem is, Mikey is not trading Dalton, nor is it likely he will be signed to an extension. Mikey will pay out Dalton to the end, then let him walk in FA. It's the Mike Brown way. So with that mentality, he will not rock the boat in hopes Dalton will be a good little trooper and play nice till then - which means not benching him and throwing Finley in for a look. I am sure Zac has been instructed as much.

Also, to make things a bit more interesting - just by watching Dalton, it almost seems as if he's tanking at times to get out of town. Making sure there will be no offer for an extension. Not saying he's worth keeping, but body language on the field this season speaks as much. Just my take.

Is anyone concerned that Finley throwing the ball 50+ times per game behind this lines to this WR corps will just "prove" to Mike Brown that Dalton is by far the best QB for the Bengals?

Finely will come in and win, just so the Bengals will not get the first overall pick. Not like it maters. Too many holes one player can't fix.