(10-31-2019, 01:44 AM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: What is wrong with vanilla ice cream?  Nothing... it is just as flavorful as any other flavor out there.

Yes the Bengals had a great defense in '15.  Not too many people are calling for a benching of Atkins or Dunlap are they?  Those 2 have played even more poorly than Dalton has, but instead of calling them out, they call out the DC and other players as well, but not those 2.

Dalton did play poorly against the Chargers... but so did that "elite" defense you speak of.  Atkins and Dunlap got how many sacks in that game again?  1 sack for 6 yards... yet Dalton played poorly, even though he was sacked 3 times for 8 yards.

Don't forget the drops either.  I know I saw one pass that hit Green (yes, our star WR) in the hands, dropped right into the bucket, and he just doesn't catch it.

'13 was definitely a terrible playoff loss though.  Probably the ONLY 1 you can actually point to Dalton's play as the reason for the losses.  The others are not quite so easily claimed, unless you really just don't like the way Dalton plays the game (which is pocket QB, managing the game, doing what the coaches tell him to do).  I see Dalton as the scapegoat and not the reason for the losses.

Woodhead gashed us in 13 and the coaches forgot BJGE was avg 5 yards a clip that game too. Dalton's errors were the biggest failure most likely, but others were culpable as well. Folks have short memories.

(10-31-2019, 01:44 AM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: What is wrong with vanilla ice cream?  Nothing... it is just as flavorful as any other flavor out there.

Yes the Bengals had a great defense in '15.  Not too many people are calling for a benching of Atkins or Dunlap are they?  Those 2 have played even more poorly than Dalton has, but instead of calling them out, they call out the DC and other players as well, but not those 2.

Dalton did play poorly against the Chargers... but so did that "elite" defense you speak of.  Atkins and Dunlap got how many sacks in that game again?  1 sack for 6 yards... yet Dalton played poorly, even though he was sacked 3 times for 8 yards.

Don't forget the drops either.  I know I saw one pass that hit Green (yes, our star WR) in the hands, dropped right into the bucket, and he just doesn't catch it.

'13 was definitely a terrible playoff loss though.  Probably the ONLY 1 you can actually point to Dalton's play as the reason for the losses.  The others are not quite so easily claimed, unless you really just don't like the way Dalton plays the game (which is pocket QB, managing the game, doing what the coaches tell him to do).  I see Dalton as the scapegoat and not the reason for the losses.

Great point about Adkins and Dunlap. They have done nothing. The D line to me is actually the biggest disappointment this season, not Andy. We knew what we had in Andy for years. The Oline has sucked for several years, so if anyone was let down by that group this year, well they have issues.

QB’s always get all the glory and blame. Not saying Dalton is completely innocent, he has his share. But there’s nothing to get fans excited about benching a couple D linemen when there nothing behind them. Finley is the new AJ, and fans demanded some kind of change. The timing was odd but maybe that’s Browns way of making some kind of splash since he wasn't going to trade anyone. Just a distraction? I dunno.

I do think we need to see what we have in him before the draft. With a healthy Green and Ross he will be compared to Andy and I’m sure there will be some who will say “ Andy would have played better” with these guys healthy the rest of the season. I fear this is not the end. The way I see it, Andy had more chances than any other team would have givin him. But at the same time Andy’s downfall was not just himself but Ownership for putting such a horrible line in front of him.

Heck I can’t believe this is the first time in 17 years a Bengal QB has been benched due to performance.

Heck I can’t believe this is the first time in 17 years a Bengal QB has been benched due to performance.

(10-30-2019, 11:14 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: What I am saying that NO QB can win unless the stars are aligned.

Drew Brees only has 1 SB... Aaron Rodgers only has 1 SB.  Russell Wilson has 1. 

Now Tom Brady always seems to have the stars aligned... guess what he has?  A coach that knows the importance of OLine play.  An organization that knows how to build to the strengths of the players around him.

Alex Erickson has had near 100 yards this past game against the Rams...  He had 137 against the Jags.  I repeat this... Alex Erickson. 

That is Tom Brady hitting Chris Hogan when Hogan was on the team.  Hogan was a no name person.  Still is, but with Brady and the Patriots he won 2 SBs.  For all the talk that Dalton doesn't make his WRs better he seems to get guys like Erickson some pretty stats.

So no, you are wrong, Dalton can win when things aren't perfect... he is just in an organization that doesn't even try to improve things around him.  No QB can win here.  I don't care who they are, they will not win here.  Not until the organization starts trying to address things that actually need addressing.  Dalton is pissed and he has every right to be pissed.

It is one thing for things to break down from time to time... it is another to claim that Dalton is the issue that things are broken down.  Sure a new QB may win some games, but they won't have any long term success since this organization is doing nothing to try and align the stars.  

You are acting like Erickson is trash when the truth is this is the first year they have really given him a chance to excel before he was buried behind Marvin's vets. And yes Dalton did help Erickson and Tate improve this year even Ross. But that was only after you took his shiny toys like AJ away and he was forced to throw the ball to other players. Boyd was playing bad in a few games so Dalton was forced to go to other guys not to mention he has a new head coach telling him to spread the ball around. One of Dalton's flaws is tunnel vision when AJ is on the field. Erickson is a good WR if you do not send him on a go route every other route he can run effectively.

As far as stars aligning for QB's that BS explain how a drunk rapist in yellow and black has a hand full of SB rings did the beer cans align for this guy. Injuries hit every team every year adapt and overcome is what the SB QB's do when AJ goes down do not throw your hands up and say its over. Bottom line with Dalton is he is gun shy he stares at the rushers he does not look downfield he is a check down king. You can not expect to throw the ball 5 yards short and put it on your players to always pick up the first when you have not connected on a deep ball in 5 or 6 games and every defense you play is crowding the LOS to stop the check downs and your only true weapon on the field Mixon. They are daring the QB to beat them and they wont stop till a Bengals QB can beat them with the pass. When you throw short you are expecting your players to pick up 5 or 6 third down conversions on every drive throw the ball downfield 15 to 20 yards and do not put us in 3rd downs pick up the 1st down on 2nd down do not be a cookie cutter Offense or defenses will figure you out.

(10-30-2019, 11:33 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: Exactly.  Take away the OLine and consistency from the WRs and that is a recipe for QB failure.  I saw somewhere that we lead the league in dropped passes.  I would assume that these are catchable passes that the WR just didn't come down with. 

If a QB throws to a WR multiple times and that WR doesn't make the catch, the QB will then doubt that WRs abilities.  This causes Dalton to "miss" wide open WRs as he may see them, but remember the last 3 times he threw to that WR.  He also may see that the WR isn't as wide open as it looks and doesn't trust the WR to come down with the ball so he throws it away instead of risking an INT.

Sure we could win some games with Rodgers, maybe even with Mahomes.  However with the OLine play being so bad and the WRs not catching the passes that they should catch, we would still have a losing record and if we made the playoffs (due to division being so bad this year) we only lose in the 1st round anyway.

This is part of Dalton's problem he does not go for the win he try's not to lose the game. I have watched him throw the ball away on 3rd downs when we was in 4th quarter with less then 5 or 6 mins on the clock and putting it on the defense to get the stop and with even less time on the clock hoping to get the ball with 2 mins left on clock. But this is not Mike Zimmer's D anymore you got to win the games for us not play conservitive that's why we got rid of the last coach. Trust in your WR not named AJ and Boyd he use to be a gun slinger when he was a rookie QB that has been coached out of him by Marvin and the media.

None of this is important in Bengaldom ..The ONLY thing important is that on the website, bengals.com there is no reference to DEY..not whodey, newday, poopdey, not getscreweddey..No DEY at all..  and the people finally rejoiced.. 

(10-30-2019, 11:43 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: Yet I wouldn't blame Dalton one bit if he were to say... "Nah, I'm good."

Taylor already admitted to him that they want to see what Finley can do before going into the draft.  Which means the organization is either going to roll with Finley or draft a QB in the 1st.

Why should Dalton go out and finish the season?  If Finley plays like crap that is ZT's issue.  Of course Finley could play like crap, the OLine will still be terrible and the run game will be non-existent.  WRs will still drop passes, assuming that Green doesn't play. 

If Finley plays poorly, Dalton should say  "Maybe see what Dolegala can do?  I mean you want to make 100% sure before the draft, right?  I wouldn't want to prevent you from finding out what you have for the future at QB."

Of course I am pettier than Dalton is.  Dalton would probably just go back out there.

I will take Dolegala over Dalton in a heartbeat this year since Dalton already lost 8 games strait and we do want to see what the rookies have.

(10-31-2019, 12:08 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: That’s an interesting thought.  In most of our minds Andy Dalton is probably number two on the depth chart but something tells me in Zac Taylor’s mind he’s now number three behind Jake Dolegala.  I might be wrong but Zac probably considers Ryan Finley and Jake Dolegala “his guys” and Andy Dalton was “Marvin’s guy.”

Whatever the case, I want to see the Bengals win out.

I agree with this but I am with ZT on this Dalton is the 3rd string QB. Dolegala steps in if injury or bad play continues not after one game but after Finley is given a legit shot to show what he has got.

Of course dalton was caught off guard did you see how aloof he was in the last game. Just looked like he was just out there going through the motions. Win or lose no worries. Plus daltons bad performance? I had to turn off the game early it was not fun to watch dalton play QB. Awful throws half the game. Still batted down balls and bad pocket movement and presence.

From what I seen of finleys tape he has everything dalton doesnt. He throws catchable passes,pocket awareness, pocket movement it should be like night and day watching sunday. Dalton should have wins with this receiving core even without green. We have a low key sick offense with green healthy. It should be fun season the rest of the way with better qb play. I know Finley looks like a basket case or napoleon dynamite but that kind of makes me like him more. Teams will think Haha look at dorky finley. Then we beat their ass and they cry like how do you lose to ryan finley!! Napoleon dynamite lol

(10-31-2019, 12:17 AM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: This is accurate. Boo hoo Andy. Your lucky you even lasted this long.  Should have been let go long time ago. Where’s all the Dalton supporters that have been defending him for years you’ve all gone mostly quiet. Your boy Andy has been nothing but mediocre.  Anyone that thinks he was ever a good QB is a moron.

The dalton supporters are everywhere seething mad lol

(10-31-2019, 12:36 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Yep. But in their infinite wisdom (and i do believe the decision was made in Zac's mind games ago) they decided to wait until the bye (since the season was over) to give Finley more time to adjust. 

AND, there's no damn way they were going to do anything before the trade deadline with anyone, so people need to stop bringing that into the equation when talking about when it was announced. They were going to stand pat all along, see what they have to work with this year and use their allotted picks next year to fill gaps. It's the 'Bengals way'. Half measure here, half measure there, get em next year. Wash, rinse, repeat. 

Spot on IMHO

The only way MB would have considered trading Dalton would have been one hell of a sweetheart deal, something no team would have offered anyways.

Having said that just to be considerate they should have told him way before they did, Sunday evening, Monday morning ?

In fact I feel they should have benched Dalton 2 or 3 weeks ago. 

(10-31-2019, 02:10 AM)TKUHL Wrote: Great point about Adkins and Dunlap. They have done nothing. The D line to me is actually the biggest disappointment this season, not Andy. We knew what we had in Andy for years. The Oline has sucked for several years, so if anyone was let down by that group this year, well they have issues.

QB’s always get all the glory and blame. Not saying Dalton is completely innocent, he has his share. But there’s nothing to get fans excited about benching a couple D linemen when there nothing behind them. Finley is the new AJ, and fans demanded some kind of change. The timing was odd but maybe that’s Browns way of making some kind of splash since he wasn't going to trade anyone. Just a distraction? I dunno.

I do think we need to see what we have in him before the draft. With a healthy Green and Ross he will be compared to Andy and I’m sure there will be some who will say  “ Andy would have played better” with these guys healthy the rest of the season. I fear this is not the end. The way I see it, Andy had more chances than any other team would have givin him. But at the same time Andy’s downfall was not just himself but Ownership for putting such a horrible line in front of him.

Pretty much dead to rights. Good post.

Obviously this was poorly handled by the Bengals. I have wanted to move on from Dalton for years and feel that it should have happened while the roster was peaking, but Dalton deserved a better end than this. Aside from the timing, kudos to Zac Taylor for making this move when "stay the course" would've been what everyone is accustomed to with this franchise. I don't have high hopes for Finley, but he surprised me in the preseason so lets see if he can do it again. I think this has to be a clean break, meaning that Dalton should not play another snap here. They should have traded him when the decision was made to bench him instead of keeping him around, to avoid whatever awkwardness this is going to cause in the locker room.

(10-31-2019, 04:14 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: You are acting like Erickson is trash when the truth is this is the first year they have really given him a chance to excel before he was buried behind Marvin's vets. And yes Dalton did help Erickson and Tate improve this year even Ross. But that was only after you took his shiny toys like AJ away and he was forced to throw the ball to other players. Boyd was playing bad in a few games so Dalton was forced to go to other guys not to mention he has a new head coach telling him to spread the ball around. One of Dalton's flaws is tunnel vision when AJ is on the field. Erickson is a good WR if you do not send him on a go route every other route he can run effectively.

As far as stars aligning for QB's that BS explain how a drunk rapist in yellow and black has a hand full of SB rings did the beer cans align for this guy. Injuries hit every team every year adapt and overcome is what the SB QB's do when AJ goes down do not throw your hands up and say its over. Bottom line with Dalton is he is gun shy he stares at the rushers he does not look downfield he is a check down king. You can not expect to throw the ball 5 yards short and put it on your players to always pick up the first when you have not connected on a deep ball in 5 or 6 games and every defense you play is crowding the LOS to stop the check downs and your only true weapon on the field Mixon. They are daring the QB to beat them and they wont stop till a Bengals QB can beat them with the pass. When you throw short you are expecting your players to pick up 5 or 6 third down conversions on every drive throw the ball downfield 15 to 20 yards and do not put us in 3rd downs pick up the 1st down on 2nd down do not be a cookie cutter Offense or defenses will figure you out.

You think Ben has a "hand full of SB rings"?   He has 2.  Both years he had strong running games and strong defenses.  Along with good WRs.  Not only that but some crazy endings to some games.  Palmer's knee injury wasn't something that Ben could have counted on and while the Bengals may not have won the SB, they could have beaten Pittsburgh.  So yeah Stars Aligning.

You see Nick Foles doesn't win SB MVP if the stars doesn't align.

You act like Dalton hasn't played without AJ before.  He has and he has played well.  You know why 2015 was so good?  Cause when Dalton threw to the other WRs they actually caught the ball.  Unlike the drops that has came about since Sanu and Jones left.

When those 2 left, who did we replace them with?  1 guy... Tyler Boyd.  Then we get John Ross in a different draft, who has been injured and not as consistent as Jones.

Aaron Rodgers is the king of YAC... Brady is the king of short throws.  Rarely do they throw the ball downfield.  Brees is the only one to throw down field consistently. 

The expression that QBs are told is "Give you guys a chance".  Well at some point those guys are going to have to make the most out of their chances.

(10-31-2019, 04:35 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: I will take Dolegala over Dalton in a heartbeat this year since Dalton already lost 8 games strait and we do want to see what the rookies have.

Yeah... lets see the rookies struggle behind the OLine, not have a running game, WRs drop passes and defense give up big plays.  Sure will see a lot.

I mean as long as they are not Dalton, right?

When they fail then you just know drafting Tua, Burrows, Hurts or just about QB with our 1st pick or even 2nd will magically fix everything and we will be SB bound.

OR.... they fail here too, because the organization isn't doing anything to try and align the stars and after 1-2 bad games or rough start, fans will look at the 2021 draft for a QB in the first round.  Rinse and Repeat, the cycle is complete.

Congratulations we become the Browns.  All sorts of issues, but if we just keep drafting QBs we will finally get there.

(10-31-2019, 09:14 AM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: Yeah... lets see the rookies struggle behind the OLine, not have a running game, WRs drop passes and defense give up big plays.  Sure will see a lot.

I mean as long as they are not Dalton, right?

When they fail then you just know drafting Tua, Burrows, Hurts or just about QB with our 1st pick or even 2nd will magically fix everything and we will be SB bound.

OR.... they fail here too, because the organization isn't doing anything to try and align the stars and after 1-2 bad games or rough start, fans will look at the 2021 draft for a QB in the first round.  Rinse and Repeat, the cycle is complete.

Congratulations we become the Browns.  All sorts of issues, but if we just keep drafting QBs we will finally get there.

The bengals have drafted 1 first round Qb in the last 20 years.

Keep up the delusion

(10-31-2019, 02:08 AM)Wyche Wrote: Woodhead gashed us in 13 and the coaches forgot BJGE was avg 5 yards a clip that game too. Dalton's errors were the biggest failure most likely, but others were culpable as well. Folks have short memories.

Yeah they do. 

I rewatched our game in SD that year and predicted that we would lose.  The reason is that we didn't beat SD, SD beat themselves.  SD was moving the ball without issue.  Then Gates fumbled and errant throws by Rivers, that just killed drives and momentum.  Even then they was 1 play away from winning that game.

We didn't dominate SD, we squeaked out a win. 

The playoff game, the players played like they were overconfident.  We played well in the 1st half, but then Gio's fumble and then everything just started to fall apart.  Dalton looked to be the only one out there trying that game.  Well Sanu as well.  The coaches stopped running in the 2nd half and many believe that Gruden threw that game so that he could get the Washington job or move on faster.

(10-31-2019, 09:16 AM)mt415tress Wrote: The bengals have drafted 1 first round Qb in the last 20 years.

Keep up the delusion

You know, I am not saying what the Bengals will do... only what you fans want them to do.  Which is go on a QB carousal.

"Palmer needs benching", "Dalton needs benching".  "Put in McCarron".  "Put in Finley".  "Draft this guy..."  over and over again.

Bottom line, there are a lot of teams that would like to have Andy and could put a decent line in front of him and win. Sure he's pissed he didn't get a chance to be traded, but the Bengals are not trading him because they know Finley has to play behind the same line Dalton did, and very well may not last a game. Dalton is now the backup plan.