(11-02-2019, 06:23 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: I thought Palmer was smarter. You can come out of college and already know everything he said he was naive about. He can complain all he wants about the Bengals all he wants but they did hire his bro. Even when everyone knew his brother was inferior for the NFL.

Well...Carson Palmer is the textbook case of if we land a franchise QB what will happen. People generally think that an Aaron Rodgers would turn the franchise around. Most likely, we'd land that QB because we had a high pick...and either fail to build around him...

(or) Have some success like making the playoffs and then quit investing in the other areas of the team that need improved instead relying on the draft almost exclusively.

That's IF we develop the QB.

(11-02-2019, 06:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: When Carson arrived the Cards had had a total of 3 winning seasons in the previous 28 years.

That doesn't change what I stated as far as comparing the recent Cardinals management to the Bengals which is what I responded to. Since the last Bengals playoff win in 1990 the Cardinals made it to the division round of the playoffs during the 1998 season, the Super Bowl during the 2008 season, the division round again during the 2009 season, a playoff game during the 2014 season and the conference championship game during the 2015 season.  As far as the NFL goes over all 32 teams that's a pretty decent track record and something the Bengals have not even been close to over that same time frame.

After 1990 the Bengals have a total of 7 winning seasons and no playoff wins. During that same time the Cardinals have had 6 winning seasons with multiple play off wins and a Super Bowl appearance. So I don't think it is fair to imply the Cardinals are managed worse than the Bengals.

(11-02-2019, 06:18 PM)samhain Wrote: That's a pretty big stretch considering he gave up on the remainder of his contract to quit football and leave this team.  If he was a money grubber, wouldn't he have continued to collect checks losing be damned?  

He's absolutely correct about everything he says.  

If he's so full of shit, then go ahead and point out anything he's said about this front office that's factually incorrect.  What exactly is he claiming that isn't true?

Quote:We won our division. We got good one year. We were close to getting good and we needed some key pieces. And I had gone to the organization and was like ... we need a couple players here, a couple players there ... and then of course the offseason comes, and nothing happens. Nothing changes.

Off the top of my head we signed Pacman Jones, Antonio Bryant, Gibril Wilson, and Terrel Owens that off season.

Carson Palmer is a punk. 

From a reasonable fans perspective it is difficult not to generalize incompetence to everyone in a front office at this point.

It is incomprehensible that one man, Mike Brown, can ruin the lives of so many over nearly 3 decades. I could see Mike Brown hanging around for another 6 years until he's 90 years of age and I can actually see this idiot owner taking the Bengals to another town because the lease is up in 2026. This is the sport equivalent of hell.

(11-02-2019, 05:38 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: "The don't go to Cincinnati" attitude is one thing I often wonder when the Bengals don't land quality free agents.  I mean let's face it, the Bengals are not exactly known as a team players probably want to go to once they hit free agency.  A large part of it I think has to do with the overall image team management has.  So maybe even if the Bengals wanted quality free agents and tried to acquire them maybe they got a hard nope from the player's agent or the player.

Let's face it, if you were a quality player hitting free agency would your first choice be a team that is widely known to be poorly managed and hasn't won a playoff game in almost 3 decades?  Maybe if you were just playing for money and got an offer far above any others.

^This

I don't think the Front Office of the Bengals even wants to admit that players and especially their agents sway away from them.

So what do we get as fans in return?

"We don't need to go all crazy in FA.  Build through the draft."  While they fill holes with 3rd tier available FAs.

The real truth is it's probably really damn hard for the Bengals to sign anyone of value even if they wanted too.

They will almost always have to overpay if a FAs agent even listens, unless it's a current player wanting to work with them to stay.

This is the team we (try to) route for, and are doomed by ownership.

Damn, I wish they'd either cash in and sell the team or the NFL forces them to relinquish the franchise.

(11-02-2019, 06:38 PM)J24 Wrote: If the money is there then I doubt free agents will care.

For the top free agents, generally multiple teams will give them money.

For the Tier C and D guys that we usually sign...guys that I doubt multiple teams want...we pay them VERY well. I doubt that Webb would have got the contract he did by more than 1 or 2 teams.

(11-02-2019, 07:24 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: That doesn't change what I stated as far as comparing the recent Cardinals management to the Bengals which is what I responded to. Since the last Bengals playoff win in 1990 the Cardinals made it to the division round of the playoffs in 1999, the 2009 Super Bowl, the division round again in 2010, a playoff game in 2015 and the conference championship game in 2016.  As far as the NFL goes over all 32 teams that's a pretty decent track record and something the Bengals have not even been close to over that same time frame.

After 1990 the Bengals have a total of 7 winning seasons and no playoff wins. During that same time the Cardinals have had 6 winning seasons with multiple play off wins and a Super Bowl appearance.  So I don't think it is fair to imply the Cardinals are managed worse than the Bengals.

Some 75% of the league has played in a Super Bowl since 1990 and all but 3 or 4 teams...have won 5+ playoff games. (Most that haven't are expansion teams.)

(11-02-2019, 07:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Off the top of my head we signed Pacman Jones, Antonio Bryant, Gibril Wilson, and Terrel Owens that off season.

Carson Palmer is a punk. 

So you dispute the fact that Bengals management is inept which is his main assertion?

(11-02-2019, 07:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Off the top of my head we signed Pacman Jones, Antonio Bryant, Gibril Wilson, and Terrel Owens that off season.

Carson Palmer is a punk. 

Not that TO is the end all be all of critics(lol)but he sure shit all over the Bengals front office.

It didn't even take him a full season to see what was going on there.

Palmer is a punk.  Mike Brown is an absolute NFL moron and his cronies suck hard whilst counting our $$.  TO is a cancerous assbag.

All three of those above statements are true.

Yet here we sit.  Still left with one of them.  Forever... and ever... and ever...

(11-02-2019, 05:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If Carson had walked after his rookie deal was up then I would respect his opinion.  But he knew exactly what he wad doing when he took that huge contract extension.  He can't claim he did not know how the team wasran after he had been playing for them for years.

This is no defense for the Bengals fron office.  i am just pointing out that Palmer also cared more about money than winning.  

And he only made the playoffs one season with the Cards after doing it twice with the Bengals.

He is totally full of shit.

Carson is NOT full of shit boy!!! You on the other hand???

(11-02-2019, 08:04 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: ^This

I don't think the Front Office of the Bengals even wants to admit that players and especially their agents sway away from them.

So what do we get as fans in return?

"We don't need to go all crazy in FA.  Build through the draft."  While they fill holes with 3rd tier available FAs.

The real truth is it's probably really damn hard for the Bengals to sign anyone of value even if they wanted too.

They will almost always have to overpay if a FAs agent even listens, unless it's a current player wanting to work with them to stay.

This is the team we (try to) route for, and are doomed by ownership.

Damn, I wish they'd either cash in and sell the team or the NFL forces them to relinquish the franchise.

I think that Marvin gave the franchise a bit of a professional reputation...where guys would want to come here.

So what would it look like IF free agents viewed a team as toxic and stayed away? Well maybe about 5-6 defensive coordinators would turn us down before one accepted.

There's just been rumors for so long that free agents don't view this franchise as attractive. Heck, I can find articles from early 2000 about how our scouting practices are antiquated. 15+ years later...they're similar.

(11-02-2019, 08:15 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So you dispute the fact that Bengals management is inept which is his main assertion?

Ya know.

Between Palmer and what we already know about the Brown family there lies the truth.

Even if Palmer is a golden boy asshole he probably speaks some truth and confirms what most of us already have perceived anyway.

People can still dislike someone but realize they are capable of telling the truth regardless. :andy:

It's that strong hatred that blinds someone so much, which keeps them from accepting it, is something we see all of the time. 

(11-02-2019, 08:20 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think that Marvin gave the franchise a bit of a professional reputation...where guys would want to come here.

So what would it look like IF free agents viewed a team as toxic and stayed away? Well maybe about 5-6 defensive coordinators would turn us down before one accepted.

There's just been rumors for so long that free agents don't view this franchise as attractive. Heck, I can find articles from early 2000 about how our scouting practices are antiquated. 15+ years later...they're similar.

I absolutely agree with this.

Before the media all wanted Marvin gone as much as we did as fans.

Lewis was a respectable coach and players would gladly play for him.

Good coaches would come work for him as well.

Taylor has no clout what-so-ever.

Marvin had guys pulling for him from day one around the league at all levels.

We shall see how long this New Dey coach lasts here.

I hope he turns it around and it doesn't keep sliding more into toxicity or it may very well be short lived for him.

(11-02-2019, 08:26 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Ya know.

Between Palmer and what we already know about the Brown family there lies the truth.

Even if Palmer is a golden boy asshole he probably speaks some truth and confirms what most of us already have perceived anyway.

People can still dislike someone but realize they are capable of telling the truth regardless. :andy:

It's that strong hatred that blinds someone so much, which keeps them from accepting it, is something we see all of the time. 

I don't get the hate for Palmer. He basically did the same thing Pickens, Spikes, Dillon, Ochocinco all did. He just had stronger convictions and was willing to retire if he wasn't traded. I generally don't favor signing a contract and not honoring it, but he would have retired and walked away from money. Guys force trades all the time in the NFL.

What other franchise has a long list of it's best players that become villains?

Now it's happening to Dalton. It kind of happened to Whitworth too as he left and his wife had that interview about how it all was handled.

Good luck AJ Green! We'd love to keep you, but odds are you'll become a villain.

(11-02-2019, 08:12 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Some 75% of the league has played in a Super Bowl since 1990 and all but 3 or 4 teams...have won 5+ playoff games. (Most that haven't are expansion teams.)

I don't think this is 75% of the teams in the NFL that have played in a Super Bowl since 1990.  Maybe I'm just too lazy to do the math but it certainly seems less that 75% of all 32 teams.


1990 Broncos v 49ers
1991 Giants v Bills
1992 Redskins v Bills
1993 Cowboys v Bills
1994 Cowboys v Bills
1995 49rs V Chargers
1996 Cowboys v Steelers
1997 Packers v Patriots
1998 Broncos V Packers
1999 Broncos v Falcons
2000 Rams V Titans
2001 Ravens v Giants
2002 Patriots v Rams
2003 Buccaneers v Raiders
2004 Patriots v Panthers
2005 Patriots v Eagles
2006 Steelers v Seahawks
2007 Colts v Bears
2008 Giants v Patriots
2009 Steelers v Cardinals
2010 Saints v Colts
2011 Packers v Steelers
2012 Giants v Patriots
2013 Ravens v 49rs
2014 Seahawks v Broncos
2015 Patriots v Seahawks
2016 Broncos v Panthers
2017 Patriots v Falcons
2018 Rams v Patriots
2019 Patriots v Rams

Edit: Doing the math it is close though. But as no surprise most of those teams have a long history of at least being contenders.

(11-02-2019, 08:37 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: I don't think this is 75% of the teams in the NFL that have plated in a Super Bowl since 1990.  Maybe I'm just too lazy to do the math but it certainly seems less that 75% of all 32 teams.


1990 Broncos v 49ers
1991 Giants v Bills
1992 Redskins v Bills
1993 Cowboys v Bills
1994 Cowboys v Bills
1995 49rs V Chargers
1996 Cowboys v Steelers
1997 Packers v Patriots
1998 Broncos V Packers
1999 Broncos v Falcons
2000 Rams V Titans
2001 Ravens v Giants
2002 Patriots v Rams
2003 Buccaneers v Raiders
2004 Patriots v Panthers
2005 Patriots v Eagles
2006 Steelers v Seahawks
2007 Colts v Bears
2008 Giants v Patriots
2009 Steelers v Cardinals
2010 Saints v Colts
2011 Packers v Steelers
2012 Giants v Patriots
2013 Ravens v 49rs
2014 Seahawks v Broncos
2015 Patriots v Seahawks
2016 Broncos v Panthers
2017 Patriots v Falcons
2018 Rams v Patriots
2019 Patriots v Rams

The only teams to not play in a Super Bowl during this span are:


Jets
Dolphins
Browns
Bengals
Texans
Jaguars
Chiefs
Lions
Vikings

(11-02-2019, 08:18 PM)RASCAL Wrote: Carson is NOT full of shit boy!!! You on the other hand???

I look at Carson like the kid who would take his ball and go home when he didn't get his way. Couldn't stand cry baby punks like that as a kid and even less as an adult F!@# Carson in 2010 and F!@# Carson today.

(11-02-2019, 08:34 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: I absolutely agree with this.

Before the media all wanted Marvin gone as much as we did as fans.

Lewis was a respectable coach and players would gladly play for him.

Good coaches would come work for him as well.

Taylor has no clout what-so-ever.

Marvin had guys pulling for him from day one around the league at all levels.

We shall see how long this New Dey coach lasts here.

I hope he turns it around and it doesn't keep sliding more into toxicity or it may very well be short lived for him.

Marvin is dead to us. Get over it. Long live Zac 

(11-02-2019, 08:45 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The only teams to not play in a Super Bowl during this span are:


Jets
Dolphins
Browns
Bengals
Texans
Jaguars
Chiefs
Lions
Vikings

Crazy that 7 of those 9 are AFC. Gotta think it's because the Patriots have dominated.

(11-02-2019, 08:47 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I look at Carson like the kid who would take his ball and go home when he didn't get his way. Couldn't stand cry baby punks like that as a kid and even less as an adult F!@# Carson in 2010 and F!@# Carson today.

But you're blaming Bengals Management for Zac's failure. Why wouldn't you cut Palmer the same slack?