(11-03-2019, 03:07 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: He looked pretty good in AZ. Imagine just taking Dalton out and putting Carson on the team from '11-'15. They fixed the Oline, drafted AJ, had Gresh and drafted Eifert and had a very good to elite D for that whole time. 

Carson would have done more with that team than Dalton did. Don't know if he would have won in the playoffs, but he would have done better, being a better overall QB. 

Palmer had one good year in AZ.  In 2015 he had a 104 QBR.  He had a 95 QBR in '14, but only played 6 games due to injury.  The rest of the time he posted QBR's in the 80's.  In fact, if you compare the two, the only seasons Palmer posted a better QBR than Andy were 2011 by .1 and '14, where he only played 6 games as aforementioned.  

After the injuries, Palmer was a middle of the road starter making elite money.  

what does chad Johnson think of Cincy, that is a more interesting question than pick 6 palmer

(11-03-2019, 05:05 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: No you crazy. Dillon was adequate but was not HOF material. You homers want to overvalue Bengals players to justify any argument. 

Adequate?  Yeah, ok. 

(11-03-2019, 04:04 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: And players can retire or hold out if they want. That’s how it works.

Never said they couldn't and he is still a quitter.

Dillon rushed for over 1,600 yards in their Superbowl year and had 12 TDs. And that's when Brady wasn't the Brady we know today. He only had 28 TDs against 14 picks. Dillon was the MVP of that offense.

If he doesn't deserve a ring (dumbest thing I've ever read on here) then none of those other guys do either. Randy Moss = No ring. Laywer Milloy, Brueschi, Rodney Harrison... None of those rings count. It's all just Brady and Belichick.

(11-03-2019, 06:05 PM)Whatever Wrote: Palmer had one good year in AZ.  In 2015 he had a 104 QBR.  He had a 95 QBR in '14, but only played 6 games due to injury.  The rest of the time he posted QBR's in the 80's.  In fact, if you compare the two, the only seasons Palmer posted a better QBR than Andy were 2011 by .1 and '14, where he only played 6 games as aforementioned.  

After the injuries, Palmer was a middle of the road starter making elite money.  

I'm not really sure how "good" most of those AZ teams were in his time there, but for the most part, i'd have to guess that Dalton had better around him than Carson did. At least, that would be my gut reaction, knowing the Bengals teams, without looking. 

In the season's you stated, not counting '15, Carson wasn't much worse than Dalton and if he played on less talented teams, that says a lot. I will still contend that if Carson had stuck around and the Bengals did everything the same, except draft Dalton (where they could have helped another part of the team with a high #2 pick), Carson would have done more with those teams than Dalton did. 

Maybe not much more, but how many Bengals fans go on about "what ifs" in the year Carson went down with the knee and Andy went down with the thumb? It's always going to be conjecture, but it's not conjecture that Carson was a more talented QB than Dalton is/was. 

(11-03-2019, 05:17 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Not improving the same starting position you know you need to improve at least two consecutive seasons is essentially the same as doing nothing.

Hey, the Bengals made some moves to fill out a 53 man roster so Carson is a liar.

I guess being as literal as possible is the windmill you’re going to tilt at today. But, I warn you; they say the sounds windmills make can cause cancer. So wear your ear plugs.

First off try to be mature enough to leave PnR subjects in that forum

Secondly, they made moves. Coles was coming off a fine season. It can be argued that it was better than TJ's 2008 season and Coles was younger. TO was still producing at a high level. Antwan Odom was coming off an 8 sack season. Six NFL teams came to the workout that Pacman put on and he was only 26 years old. . Just because we can look back 10 years later  and arguably say these moves didn't work out; doesn't mean we did nothing; as Carson suggested we always did. 

The dude quit on his team, most likely because the fans were mean to him and his wife wanted to go back to the West Coast. But he's trying to spin something that everyone who knows anything about team sports as selfish into some noble move by him. Congratulations to him, some appear to buy it.

I hold no ill will toward Palmer, but the fact this "idiot" organization managed postseason appearances five consecutive seasons after his gig as the starter was up does sorta make him look like a bitter old man to a large degree. Too bad about how it ended, as I believe he and AJ could have been a terrific tandem. Carson had the arm to maximize Green`s deep threat potential.

(11-03-2019, 07:34 PM)ElkValleyBengal Wrote: I hold no ill will toward Palmer, but the fact this "idiot" organization managed postseason appearances five consecutive seasons after his gig as the starter was up does sorta make him look like a bitter old man to a large degree.   Too bad about how it ended, as I believe he and AJ could have been a terrific tandem.   Carson had the arm to maximize Green`s deep threat potential.

But he left us and went to a team that hadn't had a winning season in 8 years because "he cared about winning". Some folks will believe anything. 

(11-03-2019, 07:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: But he left us and went to a team that hadn't had a winning season in 8 years because "he cared about winning". Some folks will believe anything. 

Well he was traded to the Raiders. He didn't sign there.

But, yes...as I've said earlier...he's played for 3 terrible franchises. When the Cardinals are your example of how a quality team does things...you've had a bad career.

(11-03-2019, 05:10 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: You lose all credibility when you call Corey Dillon adequate smh

I really don't think this poster has any credibility anyways.

He seems like an alt poster just trolling the boards.

Not a single person who ever witnessed Dillon play and understood his situation here in Cincy would call him just an "adequate" RB.

With the Pats, he was what everyone knew he was.

(11-03-2019, 07:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: But he left us and went to a team that hadn't had a winning season in 8 years because "he cared about winning". Some folks will believe anything. 

Yeah, the more he talks about it the more he tastes his foot it seems.   Somewhere along the way he apparently believed he had a say in personnel decisions.  I think someone already stated that he really should just let it go.  I wish my employer punished me like the Bengals did him. 

(11-03-2019, 06:05 PM)Whatever Wrote: Palmer had one good year in AZ.  In 2015 he had a 104 QBR.  He had a 95 QBR in '14, but only played 6 games due to injury.  The rest of the time he posted QBR's in the 80's.  In fact, if you compare the two, the only seasons Palmer posted a better QBR than Andy were 2011 by .1 and '14, where he only played 6 games as aforementioned.  

After the injuries, Palmer was a middle of the road starter making elite money.  

What's the point in even comparing Palmer and Dalton now?  From 2011-2016 or so sure, but now?  Ehh.  Palmer is retired and Dalton is on the bench while our QB coach head coach scratches his head and Mike Brown tells us how stupid it would be to change course.  Dalton stuck it out like a good soldier and he's 0-8 and getting booed and riding the pine wishing he would have been traded.

Palmer was done after his 8th year here and Dalton is done after his 9th and for all their attitudes and salaries differed they both left winless in the post-season, getting battered behind a lousy o-line, and being booed.  Sure, Palmer is a douche and Dalton isn't, but what sort of difference did that make?

(11-03-2019, 07:51 PM)ElkValleyBengal Wrote:  I wish my employer punished me like the Bengals did him. 

I wish my employer punished me the way the NFL punishes Mike Brown.

(11-03-2019, 06:14 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: what does chad Johnson think of Cincy, that is a more interesting question than pick 6 palmer

Some of our all time best players (Munoz, Chad, Geno, AJ) seem to have pretty good relationships with the organization. Not sure that balances out the tons of disgruntled players we’ve had, but it’s worth considering.

(11-03-2019, 08:53 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Some of our all time best players (Munoz, Chad, Geno, AJ) seem to have pretty good relationships with the organization. Not sure that balances out the tons of disgruntled players we’ve had, but it’s worth considering.

I'll give you Munoz but he played for the Paul Brown-era Bengals and the fact that he didn't spend his whole career toiling for losing seasons could be a big help when it comes to how he views things today.  Chad was a problem and had issues with the organization for a lot longer than Palmer.  I'd actually wager if Chad actually did anything with the Patriots, or Dolphins, or even the Montreal Alouettes that he wouldn't have been so quick to mend fences with the Bengals. Palmer found a bit of an NFL home in AZ, but Chad has nothing of the sort outside of Cincy so he came crawling back, in a sense.

The jury is still out on Geno and AJ, they both seem like they have the personality it takes to deal with a guy like Mike Brown but I'm not sure that says much if the best sports in the league can somewhat tolerate him.  That's like me saying that everyone I've met hates me but I've come across some dogs that like me when I'm giving them milkbones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM0UyNqrS0o

(11-03-2019, 09:00 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'll give you Munoz but he played for the Paul Brown-era Bengals and the fact that he didn't spend his whole career toiling for losing seasons could be a big help when it comes to how he views things today.  Chad was a problem and had issues with the organization for a lot longer than Palmer.  I'd actually wager if Chad actually did anything with the Patriots, or Dolphins, or even the Montreal Alouettes that he wouldn't have been so quick to mend fences with the Bengals. Palmer found a bit of an NFL home in AZ, but Chad has nothing of the sort outside of Cincy so he came crawling back, in a sense.

The jury is still out on Geno and AJ, they both seem like they have the personality it takes to deal with a guy like Mike Brown but I'm not sure that says much if the best sports in the league can somewhat tolerate him.  That's like me saying that everyone I've met hates me but I've come across some dogs that like me when I'm giving them milkbones.

You had me until the end. I don’t think it’s like that at all lol

(11-03-2019, 09:44 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You had me until the end. I don’t think it’s like that at all lol

Well I lied...even dogs don't like me.

(11-03-2019, 06:59 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I'm not really sure how "good" most of those AZ teams were in his time there, but for the most part, i'd have to guess that Dalton had better around him than Carson did. At least, that would be my gut reaction, knowing the Bengals teams, without looking. 

In the season's you stated, not counting '15, Carson wasn't much worse than Dalton and if he played on less talented teams, that says a lot. I will still contend that if Carson had stuck around and the Bengals did everything the same, except draft Dalton (where they could have helped another part of the team with a high #2 pick), Carson would have done more with those teams than Dalton did. 

Maybe not much more, but how many Bengals fans go on about "what ifs" in the year Carson went down with the knee and Andy went down with the thumb? It's always going to be conjecture, but it's not conjecture that Carson was a more talented QB than Dalton is/was. 

The Cardinals had only 2 losing seasons during Palmer's tenure and had guys like Chandler Jones, Larry Fitzgerald, Patrick Peterson, David Johnson, Calais Campbell, Tyrann Mathieu, Mike Iupati, Antonio Cromartie, John Abraham, and Adrian Wilson.  

Palmer had more talent coming out, but he wasn't the same after his knee and elbow issues.  They were both good, but not elite starters.  Palmer was just paid as if he was elite.

A lot of top paid QB's that want their FO's to make moves take pay cuts and/or restructure their contracts to make it happen.  Palmer never did either.

Ultimately, if Palmer would have had more success than Dalton if he stayed, then he's completely full of it.  He would basically have had to secure a couple of playoff wins and/or byes to do that.  He couldn't say they couldn't be competitive.

(11-03-2019, 10:17 PM)Whatever Wrote: Ultimately, if Palmer would have had more success than Dalton if he stayed, then he's completely full of it.  He would basically have had to secure a couple of playoff wins and/or byes to do that.  He couldn't say they couldn't be competitive.

True. And that's kind of the crux of the argument. He says that change was needed and some guys were needed. I don't know about the change, but they got some guys. 

They basically ended up doing what he wanted them to do. I'm a little fuzzy on it now--the timing of the Chad trade--but the wonder will always be there as to what if he stayed and Chad stayed and they did everything they did, minus draft Dalton. 

Whether a person is on Carson's side or not, the Bengals fielded a competitive, 5-time playoff team from '11-'15. I'm not defending one side or the other, just more wondering what Carson thought about those years right after he left and if he wonders what he could have done here. I honestly doubt that he does because of the way he talked about the FO. Maybe he would have always wanted more?