How do you handle it when your franchise QB wants out?

Bengals Management "Laughing Uproariously" At Carson Palmer's Demand
https://www.cincyjungle.com/2011/2/20/2004896/bengals-management-laughing-palmer-trade-demand

(11-03-2019, 08:53 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Some of our all time best players (Munoz, Chad, Geno, AJ) seem to have pretty good relationships with the organization. Not sure that balances out the tons of disgruntled players we’ve had, but it’s worth considering.

How many of the good players from Mike Brown's GM tenure have a good relationship here?

Guys like Pickens, Dillon, Spikes, Lee Johnson, Joseph, Palmer, Justin Smith...all don't. It's the bulk of our stars.

TJ and Chad seem to have mended fences some I guess. Willie Anderson seems neutral atleast.

I think Geno will be ok but he doesn't talk to press so who knows. Dunlap likes it here. Green says he does. IF he re-signs here, I'd say he'll be back after he retires. Geno, Atkins, and Dunlap have all atleast made the playoffs here and it's probably more Marvin than MB that made them respectable.

(11-03-2019, 10:41 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: True. And that's kind of the crux of the argument. He says that change was needed and some guys were needed. I don't know about the change, but they got some guys. 

They basically ended up doing what he wanted them to do. I'm a little fuzzy on it now--the timing of the Chad trade--but the wonder will always be there as to what if he stayed and Chad stayed and they did everything they did, minus draft Dalton. 

Whether a person is on Carson's side or not, the Bengals fielded a competitive, 5-time playoff team from '11-'15. I'm not defending one side or the other, just more wondering what Carson thought about those years right after he left and if he wonders what he could have done here. I honestly doubt that he does because of the way he talked about the FO. Maybe he would have always wanted more?

As funny as this video is that's in your sig.



Palmer with his busted nose is just as sad/laughable.




It's very telling what this organization is about.

(11-03-2019, 07:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: First off try to be mature enough to leave PnR subjects in that forum

First off, I realize you're frustrated because you have decided to defend the indefensible, but there is no reason for personal attacks.  Windmill noise cancer affects everyone.  Unless you're willing to admit it has never affected anyone. Ever.

Quote:Secondly, they made moves. Coles was coming off a fine season. It can be argued that it was better than TJ's 2008 season and Coles was younger. TO was still producing at a high level. Antwan Odom was coming off an 8 sack season. Six NFL teams came to the workout that Pacman put on and he was only 26 years old. . Just because we can look back 10 years later  and arguably say these moves didn't work out; doesn't mean we did nothing; as Carson suggested we always did. 

Arguably didn't work out? Arguably?  LMAO.  The opposite of didn't work out would be the moves worked out.  Care to make the argument that spending the same amount of money signing Coles, Bryant, and Owens instead of TJ worked out?

So yeah, the front office made some shitty moves in the off season that changed nothing which they did year after year.

Quote:The dude quit on his team, most likely because the fans were mean to him and his wife wanted to go back to the West Coast. But he's trying to spin something that everyone who knows anything about team sports as selfish into some noble move by him. Congratulations to him, some appear to buy it.

Yeah, I'm sure Carson went to Mike Brown and demand the fans be nice to his wife at the supermarket or he would retire.  But, it appears some folks buy that stupid shinola.

(11-03-2019, 11:26 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: As funny as this video is that's in your sig.



Palmer with his busted nose is just as sad/laughable.




It's very telling what this organization is about.

The dude got a bloody nose in a preseason game. The oline that year included Levi Jones, Bobbie Williams, and Andrew Whitworth. What exactly does that bloody nose tell you? 

(11-03-2019, 11:47 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: First off, I realize you're frustrated because you have decided to defend the indefensible, but there is no reason for personal attacks.  Windmill noise cancer affects everyone.  Unless you're willing to admit it has never affected anyone. Ever.


Arguably didn't work out? Arguably?  LMAO.  The opposite of didn't work out would be the moves worked out.  Care to make the argument that spending the same amount of money signing Coles, Bryant, and Owens instead of TJ worked out?

So yeah, the front office made some shitty moves in the off season that changed nothing which they did year after year.


Yeah, I'm sure Carson went to Mike Brown and demand the fans be nice to his wife at the supermarket or he would retire.  But, it appears some folks buy that stupid shinola.

Unsure what I'm doing to "defend the indefensible". I've agreed management is lacking, but that's not what CP9 said.

Yes arguably; as we went to the playoffs 4 years in a row after CP9 left. So some moves may have worked out.

Feel free to roll with CP9 demanded a trade because he wanted to win (The sure sign of a leader) 

(11-04-2019, 12:07 AM)bfine32 Wrote: The dude got a bloody nose in a preseason game. The oline that year included Levi Jones, Bobbie Williams, and Andrew Whitworth. What exactly does that bloody nose tell you? 

Levi was done at that point.  Willie was damn close.  It was a bad line.

That offseason, they signed some dude named Titus Adams and a washed-up Ed Hartwell, who I'm pretty sure didn't make the team.  They did nothing to protect their franchise quarterback, and reaped the results of their inactivity when the season came.  

I believe that was also the year that they had Anthony Schlegel, Chinedum Nkdukwe, and Jumpy Geathers lining up at linebacker because they opted to half-ass the offseason.  

I'm sure they signed some practice squad guys, though.   

(11-03-2019, 11:22 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: How many of the good players from Mike Brown's GM tenure have a good relationship here?

Guys like Pickens, Dillon, Spikes, Lee Johnson, Joseph, Palmer, Justin Smith...all don't. It's the bulk of our stars.

TJ and Chad seem to have mended fences some I guess. Willie Anderson seems neutral atleast.

I think Geno will be ok but he doesn't talk to press so who knows. Dunlap likes it here. Green says he does. IF he re-signs here, I'd say he'll be back after he retires. Geno, Atkins, and Dunlap have all atleast made the playoffs here and it's probably more Marvin than MB that made them respectable.

In a culture of gaffes and gotcha journalism, AJ Green is a straight up genius.  Either that, or he has one hell of a PR person advising him on what to say.  He never says anything derogatory about his situation, no matter how much of a latrine fire the team becomes.  He leaves the door open for anything.  

Maybe he just flat out loves it here and is content to be a rich star athlete with everything he could want minus a functional organization.  I have no idea at this point.  

Either way, the guy is the definition of class.  I hope things don't get nasty with him.  He deserves better.

I'm going to applaud Palmer for waiting until we went back into suck mode before speaking his mind. Other than that i feel nothing. He had a few decent years here and that's about it.

(11-04-2019, 12:14 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Unsure what I'm doing to "defend the indefensible". I've agreed management is lacking, but that's not what CP9 said.

Yes arguably; as we went to the playoffs 4 years in a row after CP9 left. So some moves may have worked out.

Feel free to roll with CP9 demanded a trade because he wanted to win (The sure sign of a leader) 

What did the Bengals do this offseason? Nothing. And the year before that? Nothing. And so it goes year after year.

I think most people understand when I just wrote nothing, I didn’t literally mean they didn’t sign one single player. But, there’s always that one person in every crowd that’s like, “Nuh uh! You’re a liar. In 2018 the Bengals signed free agent OT Bobby Hart and in 2019 the Bengals re-signed Bobby Hart. So they did something.”

Whatever, Fred.

(11-04-2019, 01:38 AM)samhain Wrote: Levi was done at that point.  Willie was damn close.  It was a bad line.

That offseason, they signed some dude named Titus Adams and a washed-up Ed Hartwell, who I'm pretty sure didn't make the team.  They did nothing to protect their franchise quarterback, and reaped the results of their inactivity when the season came.  

I believe that was also the year that they had Anthony Schlegel, Chinedum Nkdukwe, and Jumpy Geathers lining up at linebacker because they opted to half-ass the offseason.  

I'm sure they signed some practice squad guys, though.   

I think there's a certain amount of comfort playing here.

For instance, you play for the Steelers and don't win a SB and the media and fans criticize you. Here, you don't have those expectations.

People still "hate" on Palmer for the way he quit the team. And to be honest at first I did as well. But then I thought about it a bit and realized he quit on Mike Brown's ways. And I can't say I blame him.

I'm sure Palmer knows what he's talking about and I'm quite sure he's right.

This team is doomed until we get a competent owner that isn't trying to run this team like it's still 1968.

(11-04-2019, 02:36 AM)Atomic Orange Wrote: I'm going to applaud Palmer for waiting until we went back into suck mode before speaking his mind. Other than that i feel nothing. He had a few decent years here and that's about it.

I bet Palmer was terrified Mike Brown was going to be hoisting the Lombardi from 2011 to 2015.  Those 5 straight 12th place finishes had everyone wondering if Mike Brown really was an amazing owner the whole time.

And Dalton wants a trade now, but he's gonna be freaking out that Mike Brown is gonna be hoisting that Lombardi in 2020 without him.

(11-04-2019, 03:15 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: What did the Bengals do this offseason? Nothing. And the year before that? Nothing. And so it goes year after year.

I think most people understand when I just wrote nothing, I didn’t literally mean they didn’t sign one single player.  But, there’s always that one person in every crowd that’s like, “Nuh uh!  You’re a liar. In 2018 the Bengals signed free agent OT Bobby Hart and in 2019 the Bengals re-signed Bobby Hart. So they did something.”

Whatever, Fred.

If we want to be honest in our positions we must consider what CP 9 was referring to when he said nothing:

His actual words were this:

Quote:We were close to getting good and we needed some key pieces. And I had gone to the organization and was like ... we need a couple players here, a couple players there ... and then of course the offseason comes, and nothing happens. Nothing changes.

We were very active in signing a couple players here, a couple players there during the time frame CP9 was talking about.

And as to the rest: you are a liar (let's just go with mistaken; no need to be ugly)  we did a lot this off season including replacing the entire coaching staff. We just did something last week, we replaced our starting QB. Will any of them pay off? Who knows, but to say we did nothing is a lie.

So Palmer is saying what most of us already know.

This franchise is just run......differently than most of the league. Expecting changes in the m/o of this front office is foolhardy. Do so at your own risk


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(11-04-2019, 01:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And as to the rest: you are a liar (let's just go with mistaken; no need to be ugly)  we did a lot this off season including replacing the entire coaching staff. We just did something last week, we replaced our starting QB. Will any of them pay off? Who knows, but to say we did nothing is a lie.

How about if we just re-phrase the off season activities as saying 'they do nothing that indicates they want to build a championship team'. Yes, they do things but nothing to indicate they desire to win. 

(11-02-2019, 05:03 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Just read this on the Enquirer. It looks like these comments were taken from a recent podcast he was on.

The Oakland Raiders) were just a solid organization. ... And we built something special. We got better every year. ... We continued to improve and make strides and so it was just so comforting - coming from Cincinnati, who is a whole nother kind of mess and disaster. So coming from that and then going to Oakland and then all of a sudden, I got to Arizona, I was like, man, this is the NFL. This is how you're supposed to do it. This is right. And it was just so comforting. And so much less stress and pressure.

There's so much pressure on quarterbacks as it is. When you have to worry about some idiot making the decision on a roster move, or hiring coaches, or some of the stuff you have to worry about ... when you have that added pressure and stress of not trusting the organization and knowing that they don't know what they're doing, that's just an added amount of stress you don't need as a young player. And going through that and seeing that and then getting to Arizona and going through what I went through in Cincinnati and what I went through in Oakland and then winning and appreciating the wins. And then winning a bunch ... it really let me really enjoy each win. My five years in Arizona were so much fun because we were winning and I knew how to enjoy it because I knew the other side of it. I knew what it was like to be bad, and be on a bad, bad team. ... Unfortunately, it took me too long to get (to Arizona). But it was refreshing, no doubt.

From the jump ... everybody, every single person - NFL people, agents, ex-quarterbacks I had talked to that were since retired and moved on - said, 'You can't go to Cincinnati. You can't go to Cincinnati. It's a quarterback graveyard.' ... I, at the time, was arrogant, young dumb, 20-year-old kid, and I was like, 'I'm gonna go there and make a difference. I'm gonna go there and change it. I don't care what all these people are saying.' ... I was naive. I didn't want to believe it and want to hear it. And I thought, 'Well, they haven't had me. I'll go there and change it.' ... I thought I was the difference-maker. I thought, 'The organization doesn't matter. The players on the field are what matters.' And I was 100 percent wrong. All that matters is the organization. Because great organizations get the right players. So I was wrong on that. And it was just an accumulation of so many things.

We won our division. We got good one year. We were close to getting good and we needed some key pieces. And I had gone to the organization and was like ... we need a couple players here, a couple players there ... and then of course the offseason comes, and nothing happens. Nothing changes. And it was year after year. In order to win in the NFL ... you've got to be desperate to win a championship. You've got to be all in. The financials and the money side of it are very important obviously to owners, and to everybody that's invested in the organization. But if the most important thing is the financials and the second-most important thing is winning, then you don't have a chance. And it's so important that ownership is willing to do what it takes to win. ... If you just kinda sit there and hope that things fall your way, you've got to get really, really lucky to win a championship. But if you're desperate and you're willing to do what it takes and you'll spend to go get this player. ... You've got to be consistently trying to build a championship team. If you're just kinda sitting there and hoping somebody falls in your lap, it's hard to do it that way. You've got to have the ball bounce your way a number of times in the playoffs. And you've got to get lucky here and get lucky there. You look at New England and there's not a lot of luck. And lot of that is built specifically. You look at what Pittsburgh's done the last 20 years, there's not a lot of luck involved in that ... you look at what Seattle's done, there's not a lot of luck. ... That's not hoping that somebody falls to you in the draft. That's being manipulative of the draft and moving players and churning up rosters and building the right chemistry in the locker room and there's so much that goes into it, it's just not a lucky thing. In order to be successful in the NFL, the organization is of the utmost importance.

Bullshit, it's all Dalton's fault. Stupid Carson...

(11-02-2019, 09:11 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The fans once cheered after Kenny got injured, while he was writhing in pain on the field, with his wife in the stands. Kenny called the fan base "stupid and classless". I remember sitting in the stands during a couple games as a youngster with my dad and uncle, hearing people berate Kenny and not understanding why they were so pissed off at "our" QB.

Could be they just don't understand there are 21 other starters out there, and special teams. It sure is odd.....

During the offseason after the 2010 season when Palmer sat out and demanded a trade Mike Brown signed three new starters in free agency that helped improve our defense from 24th to 9th in scoring.

How the hell can anyone here defend Palmer for calling that "nothing"?

(11-04-2019, 12:07 AM)bfine32 Wrote: The dude got a bloody nose in a preseason game. The oline that year included Levi Jones, Bobbie Williams, and Andrew Whitworth. What exactly does that bloody nose tell you? 

Please read.

The New Orleans Saints sacked Palmer three times in the first half Saturday night in a 13-0 victory that underscored the Cincinnati Bengals' growing problem. Right now, it's as bad as it gets.

"I'll tell you what makes me angry: Seeing my quarterback get off the ground," left tackle Levi Jones said. "It infuriates me, especially seeing blood on his face."
The Bengals couldn't move the ball or protect their franchise quarterback in the first half. Palmer left the game when Kevin Kaesviharn got to him on a third-down safety blitz with 2 seconds left before halftime.
As he walked to the sideline, Palmer's nose already had a prominent bump. He dabbed at the blood with a towel, then draped the towel over his head and walked to the locker room, prematurely done for the night. He went for further examination to see how badly the nose was hurt.
A line that gave up only 17 sacks last season was fuming at its inability to protect him.
"That's the thing that's hurting me right now, to see Carson getting hit," guard Bobbie Williams said. "It hurts me deeply."
Palmer got knocked to the ground five times during a 27-10 loss to Detroit a week earlier.