I have seen a few members here complimenting the Bengals red zone defense.  Currently they are third in the league allowing a td only 41.4% of the time the opponent enters the red zone, but that stat is kind of deceiving.

3 times in just 8 games the opponents settled for a FG in the final seconds of the first half because they ran out of time (SF, Ari, Jax).

2 times opponents have settled for a FG in the final minutes of the 4th quarter because all they needed was a FG.  Jacksonville just needed a FG to go up by two scores so they just ran the ball 3 times to kill clock and kicked FG with 2 minutes left.  Arizona just needed a FG in the final seconds to win so they spiked the ball to stop the clock.

2 times Buffalo fumbled in the red zone.

Arizona was stopped by a 10 yard illegal block in the red zone.

One red zone possession consisted of just one 4th down play from the Bengals 19 when Jacksonville kicked a FG.

Overall the Bengals have stopped teams from scoring tds 17 times in 29 red zone situations, but over half of those 17 (the nine listed above) were due to timing or mistakes by the offense. This explains a lot of why such a horrible defense can still rank as "high" as 21st in points allowed.

And by horrible I mean

32nd in yards per game
32nd in yards per play
32nd in QB pressures
32nd in QB hits
32nd in interceptions
32nd in pass yards per completion.
32nd in rush yards per game (by a huge 27+ yard margin over the next worst)
32nd in rush yards per attempt
31st in yards per drive
31st in sacks
31st in passing yards per attempt
30th in forced turnovers
30th in rush tds
29th in percentage scoring drives.

Indeed. Plus, we give up A LOT of big plays which there is another thread about.

I saw a crazy stat too about us giving up points with under 2 minutes to go in a half too. It's at an astoundingly high rate.

We've just been injured. Once the defense is healthy...watch out! Super Bowl bound!

Or we're epically bad due to lack of talent and bad coaching. But that can't be the case because I keep hearing Zac say we have the right group of guys.

Its a conundrum for sure!

(11-08-2019, 02:30 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Indeed. Plus, we give up A LOT of big plays which there is another thread about.

I saw a crazy stat too about us giving up points with under 2 minutes to go in a half too. It's at an astoundingly high rate.

Teams could run their 2 minute offense on us all game. We can't stop it.

(11-08-2019, 02:33 PM)R3stangs Wrote: We've just been injured. Once the defense is healthy...watch out! Super Bowl bound!

Or we're epically bad due to lack of talent and bad coaching. But that can't be the case because I keep hearing Zac say we have the right group of guys.

Its a conundrum for sure!

What if...Mike Brown only cares about getting the team to the playoffs and thinks that winning a Super Bowl is just luck?

(11-08-2019, 02:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have seen a few members here complimenting the Bengals red zone defense.  Currently they are third in the league allowing a td only 41.4% of the time the opponent enters the red zone, but that stat is kind of deceiving.

3 times in just 8 games the opponents settled for a FG in the final seconds of the first half because they ran out of time (SF, Ari, Jax).

2 times opponents have settled for a FG in the final minutes of the 4th quarter because all they needed was a FG.  Jacksonville just needed a FG to go up by two scores so they just ran the ball 3 times to kill clock and kicked FG with 2 minutes left.  Arizona just needed a FG in the final seconds to win so they spiked the ball to stop the clock.

2 times Buffalo fumbled in the red zone.

Arizona was stopped by a 10 yard illegal block in the red zone.

One red zone possession consisted of just one 4th down play from the Bengals 19 when Jacksonville kicked a FG.

Overall the Bengals have stopped teams from scoring tds 17 times in 29 red zone situations, but over half of those 17 (the nine listed above) were due to timing or mistakes by the offense. This explains a lot of why such a horrible defense can still rank as "high" as 21st in points allowed.

And by horrible I mean

32nd in yards per game
32nd in yards per play
32nd in QB pressures
32nd in QB hits
32nd in interceptions
32nd in pass yards per completion.
32nd in rush yards per game (by a huge 27+ yard margin over the next worst)
32nd in rush yards per attempt
31st in yards per drive
31st in sacks
31st in passing yards per attempt
30th in forced turnovers
30th in rush tds
29th in percentage scoring drives.

Holy shit. I didn't even realize it was THAT bad. Every player on this defense has regressed.

(11-08-2019, 02:35 PM)R3stangs Wrote: Teams could run their 2 minute offense on us all game. We can't stop it.

When you put out slow moving trees on defense, it's pretty easy to gas them out and run around them.

(11-08-2019, 02:41 PM)Fullrock Wrote: Holy shit. I didn't even realize it was THAT bad. Every player on this defense has regressed.

That can happen when you have someone become a DC who hasn't even called plays for even a full season prior.
He/she just flat out may not be good at figuring out what the offense is going to do and/or what the rest of the defense should be doing aside from his/her specialty area.

Those stats just really show you how bad this offense is when the narrative in camp was the defense dominating the offense on pretty much a daily basis.

(11-08-2019, 02:33 PM)R3stangs Wrote: We've just been injured. Once the defense is healthy...watch out! Super Bowl bound!

Or we're epically bad due to lack of talent and bad coaching. But that can't be the case because I keep hearing Zac say we have the right group of guys.

Its a conundrum for sure!

Well, Zac DID say his staff is a bunch of problem solvers. They've solved the age old problem of how to lose badly with a bunch of decent players. 
Yes, I actually went there. They do have a bunch of decent players and by a bunch I mean more than one or two.

There still good in the Redzone doesn't mean there a good defense though.

(11-08-2019, 02:47 PM)Fullrock Wrote: Those stats just really show you how bad this offense is when the narrative in camp was the defense dominating the offense on pretty much a daily basis.

Uh, No.  These stats show how shitty the defense is.

No one cares what happened at "camp"*








* unless you are talking about me touching Cindy Kleinberg's boob in 6th grade.

(11-08-2019, 03:09 PM)J24 Wrote: There still good in the Redzone doesn't mean there a good defense though.

No.  They are not really that good in the red zone.  FIVE times the opposing team was stopped from scoring a TD either because the clock ran out or the other team was not even trying to score a td.

Not saying the defense has been good it hasn't but not once this year has the the Bengals made a team 1 dimensional.

(11-08-2019, 03:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Uh, No.  These stats show how shitty the defense is.

No one cares what happened at "camp"*








* unless you are talking about me touching Cindy Kleinberg's boob in 6th grade.

But but but..the offense was gonna score at will. The problem was they couldn't book a bus to take them to Will. 

(11-08-2019, 03:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Uh, No.  These stats show how shitty the defense is.

No one cares what happened at "camp"*








* unless you are talking about me touching Cindy Kleinberg's boob in 6th grade.

Uh, yeah. If a defense that is HISTORICALLY bad had its way with the offense in camp it unquestionably shows that the offense was in BIG trouble heading into the season, and the stats back it up.

(11-08-2019, 03:31 PM)Fullrock Wrote: Uh, yeah. If a defense that is HISTORICALLY bad had its way with the offense in camp it unquestionably shows that the offense was in BIG trouble heading into the season, and the stats back it up.

I am not even sure what point you are trying to make.

I agree the offense is bad, but I base that on what happens in real games.  What happened in camp proves nothing.  

(11-08-2019, 03:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  They are not really that good in the red zone.  FIVE times the opposing team was stopped from scoring a TD either because the clock ran out or the other team was not even trying to score a td.

Not saying you’re wrong or defending this horrible defense, but if you’re going to break it down series by series to say the red zone stats are misleading you kinda need to do the same for the other teams with “good” red zone defenses to compare. Maybe all the other teams have similar reasons for getting stops? I’d bet they do as well

(11-08-2019, 03:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am not even sure what point you are trying to make.

I agree the offense is bad, but I base that on what happens in real games.  What happened in camp proves nothing.  

I think the point I'm trying to make is pretty clear. There were all kinds of red flags about the offense. Half a season in and seeing how historically bad the defense is, it shows how really bad the offense was heading into the season when they were dominated by a historically bad defense in camp. L

Camp proves nothing? You don't think coaches use camp to self-assess their team going into the season? To identify what they do or don't do well? Jobs are won and lost based on camp performance. 

(11-08-2019, 03:47 PM)Fullrock Wrote: Camp proves nothing? You don't think coaches use camp to self-assess their team going into the season? To identify what they do or don't do well? Jobs are won and lost based on camp performance. 

So which team in the league had the top offense in training camp?

Which had the best defense?

Training camp is more about looking at individual players than piling up team stats.  A team that has more young players on offense that they need to look at will have a shitty looking offense in training camp, but that has nothing to do with who will play the most in the regular season.

Our offense is bad but it is not as bad as the defense.