Please read this entire post before flaming me.

Yes, it's true.  Andy Dalton needs to start one or two more games for the Cincinnati Bengals in 2019.  I'm not against Ryan Finley so don't misunderstand; this is about the future of the team.  It's painfully obvious to all observers that the Bengals have a multiplicity of issues:  Coaching, personnel, and scheme.  Simply going after Tua Tagovailoa, Jalen Hurts, or Joe Burrow will solve next to nothing, unfortunately, because this team is more than just a new quarterback away from success.  If it were up to me I would fire every coach except for special teams and take a blowtorch to the entire roster -- but that's not Mike Brown's way.  Therefore, working within the confines imposed by the Front Office, let's look at a realistic way to begin the rebuild in Cincinnati.

First of all, every coach will likely be retained in 2020.  Mikey Boy will cite injuries and something about giving the new coaches a chance to turn it around taking more than one season.

With zero likely coaching changes, who can realistically be drafted, traded, or retained?

As of now I think the Bengals' best strategy is to build a shutdown defense around Chase Young from Ohio State.  He's the best defensive player I've seen in years and his impact in Cincinnati could mirror that of Nick Bosa in San Francisco.  Geno Atkins looked better against Oakland but he's not getting any younger.  He's going to need fast edge rushers so having Young on one side with Sam Hubbard on the other side would be a needed improvement to the Bengals' almost nonexistent pass rush.

So what about the quarterback position?  I know Mike Brown strikes at shiny objects faster than a hungry barracuda and a big arm quarterback, to Mike's eye, is the shiniest object there is.  I'm all for having Ryan Finley play more games in 2019 but, circling back to my original proposal I think it's time for Andy Dalton to play at least two more games as well.  Teams interested in Dalton need fresh film on him and the Bengals need to win just one game to avoid 0-16 which I find a wholly unacceptable record.  Also, since Dalton has one more year on his contract, he could potentially function as the "bridge" quarterback in 2020 while the Bengals look to Justin Fields or Trevor Lawrence -- or Tua Tagovailoa if he stays at Alabama -- in 2021.

If Andy Dalton does not play well in the late games there is a plethora of experienced quarterbacks worth consideration to be the "bridge" for Cincinnati in 2020.  Philip Rivers or even Eli Manning might be great "bridge" quarterbacks to bring in for a season; Drew Brees will be too expensive and Dak Prescott will stay in Dallas.  I would even consider bringing Jameis Winston in for a workout but, even better, what about taking a look at Cam Newton?  If he's healthy he can still compete.

Basically, Bengaldom, we have more options than just Andy Dalton, Ryan Finley, or falling into the trap of drafting a shiny object.

no, starting him does nothing for us, he will be traded in the off season and 2 more games will do nothing to help his value

losing games only helps us now, getting the top pick is our top priority

(11-19-2019, 10:10 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Please read this entire post before flaming me.

Yes, it's true.  Andy Dalton needs to start one or two more games for the Cincinnati Bengals in 2019.  I'm not against Ryan Finley so don't misunderstand; this is about the future of the team.  It's painfully obvious to all observers that the Bengals have a multiplicity of issues:  Coaching, personnel, and scheme.  Simply going after Tua Tagovailoa, Jalen Hurts, or Joe Burrow will solve next to nothing, unfortunately, because this team is more than just a new quarterback away from success.  If it were up to me I would fire every coach except for special teams and take a blowtorch to the entire roster -- but that's not Mike Brown's way.  Therefore, working within the confines imposed by the Front Office, let's look at a realistic way to begin the rebuild in Cincinnati.

First of all, every coach will likely be retained in 2020.  Mikey Boy will cite injuries and something about giving the new coaches a chance to turn it around taking more than one season.

With zero likely coaching changes, who can realistically be drafted, traded, or retained?

As of now I think the Bengals' best strategy is to build a shutdown defense around Chase Young from Ohio State.  He's the best defensive player I've seen in years and his impact in Cincinnati could mirror that of Nick Bosa in San Francisco.  Geno Atkins looked better against Oakland but he's not getting any younger.  He's going to need fast edge rushers so having Young on one side with Sam Hubbard on the other side would be a needed improvement to the Bengals' almost nonexistent pass rush.

So what about the quarterback position?  I know Mike Brown strikes at shiny objects faster than a hungry barracuda and a big arm quarterback, to Mike's eye, is the shiniest object there is.  I'm all for having Ryan Finley play more games in 2019 but, circling back to my original proposal I think it's time for Andy Dalton to play at least two more games as well.  Teams interested in Dalton need fresh film on him and the Bengals need to win just one game to avoid 0-16 which I find a wholly unacceptable record.  Also, since Dalton has one more year on his contract, he could potentially function as the "bridge" quarterback in 2020 while the Bengals look to Justin Fields or Trevor Lawrence -- or Tua Tagovailoa if he stays at Alabama -- in 2021.

If Andy Dalton does not play well in the late games there is a plethora of experienced quarterbacks worth consideration to be the "bridge" for Cincinnati in 2020.  Philip Rivers or even Eli Manning might be great "bridge" quarterbacks to bring in for a season; Drew Brees will be too expensive and Dak Prescott will stay in Dallas.  I would even consider bringing Jameis Winston in for a workout but, even better, what about taking a look at Cam Newton?  If he's healthy he can still compete.

Basically, Bengaldom, we have more options than just Andy Dalton, Ryan Finley, or falling into the trap of drafting a shiny object.

just draft the best player...we have needs everywhere apart from long snapper!

if they put dalton in with this newly revived running game they have slightly more chance of winning - forget fresh tape...everyone knows dalton at this stage.

if finley is not the guy then they would be crazy not to draft a QB they rate. ZT was a QB coach and he got the job for bringing 'his' offense here so he'll want his own guy

(11-19-2019, 10:20 AM)sonofstat Wrote: just draft the best player...we have needs everywhere apart from long snapper!

if they put dalton in with this newly revived running game they have slightly more chance of winning - forget fresh tape...everyone knows dalton at this stage.

if finley is not the guy then they would be crazy not to draft a QB they rate. ZT was a QB coach and he got the job for bringing 'his' offense here so he'll want his own guy

Yep, there's plenty of tape out there on Dalton and zero doubt what he is.

Im with FIK. Sorry but I don't want to be one of those teams with that 0-16 stigma. We're getting the #1 pick regardless so thats no reason not to.

Finely is no more the future than Dalton is so what difference does it make. Give yourself the best chance of getting out of this zero win hole. I don't care what anyone says, the mental impact of being on a zero win team has got to be the worst part of this. While we may not see guys flat out giving up, but they're not playing as hard. We already know there are several just there cashing paychecks for doing nothing.

Finely can't make the many of the throws he needs to it appears to me from watching the last two games.  Why we are not playing the best QB we have is beyond me.  Dalton (an average QB lately), is far superior to Finely.  I think we win that game in Oakland if he played.  

If they are losing on purpose to get the #1 pick, I also think that is ridiculous.  Losing itself is hard on the psyche of the team.  Many of these guys won't be in the league for long so to tank on purpose makes no sense and I couldn't imagine being asked to do that as a player.  I don't believe ZT has done this.

Additionally, if we are moving on from Dalton, sitting him on the bench hurts his trade value, which in the end hurts our team.  This team needs so many new starters that getting rid of one simply moves us in the wrong direction.  I think we need at least 2 years of OL and LB drafts in the high rounds just to be competitive again.  Maybe then we could take a QB.  Burrow won't save the 2020 Bengals because of the piss poor OL.

A change in FA approach could help tremendously, but there's no point even discussing that angle.

Well so far for a QB coach becoming HC no QB seems to fit his system

I see no value in putting Dalton back under center. I feel no less disgusted by 2-14 than I do about 0-16. We are epicly terrible whether or not we can squeak out a couple of wins against the other weak sisters of the league. I am also not interested in keeping Dalton as a bridge QB. We need to turn the page on the Marvin Lewis/Dalton era and try to cultivate something completely new, not just pass the torch and keep running in the same direction. I am not opposed to bringing in a veteran bridge, but it is best for all concerned that Dalton is wearing a different jersey next season.

As for Chase Young, I am a Joe Burrow guy but I would not mind taking Chase Young if they are willing to do what it takes to also get a high end QB prospect in either this draft or next year as I would rather not end up with a QB battle royale consisting of Ryan Finley and other versions of Ryan Finleys.

To me it depends on what we'll be drafting. The only reason I'd rather see Dalton under centre is that I feel Finley is just going to have a torrid time of it this year. We play him the rest of the way and I worry he just gets developmentally stunted due to the serious lack of talent around him.

That said, if we're drafting a QB in the draft, then I guess worrying about Finley's development is a bit moot. At this point we need to go 1-15 and get the #1 pick, so whichever QB does that is the one to go with. 0-16 would be humiliating (not that 1-15 is that much better) and we need to avoid that.

(11-19-2019, 10:10 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Please read this entire post before flaming me.

Yes, it's true.  Andy Dalton needs to start one or two more games for the Cincinnati Bengals in 2019.  I'm not against Ryan Finley so don't misunderstand; this is about the future of the team.  It's painfully obvious to all observers that the Bengals have a multiplicity of issues:  Coaching, personnel, and scheme.  Simply going after Tua Tagovailoa, Jalen Hurts, or Joe Burrow will solve next to nothing, unfortunately, because this team is more than just a new quarterback away from success.  If it were up to me I would fire every coach except for special teams and take a blowtorch to the entire roster -- but that's not Mike Brown's way.  Therefore, working within the confines imposed by the Front Office, let's look at a realistic way to begin the rebuild in Cincinnati.

First of all, every coach will likely be retained in 2020.  Mikey Boy will cite injuries and something about giving the new coaches a chance to turn it around taking more than one season.

With zero likely coaching changes, who can realistically be drafted, traded, or retained?

As of now I think the Bengals' best strategy is to build a shutdown defense around Chase Young from Ohio State.  He's the best defensive player I've seen in years and his impact in Cincinnati could mirror that of Nick Bosa in San Francisco.  Geno Atkins looked better against Oakland but he's not getting any younger.  He's going to need fast edge rushers so having Young on one side with Sam Hubbard on the other side would be a needed improvement to the Bengals' almost nonexistent pass rush.

So what about the quarterback position?  I know Mike Brown strikes at shiny objects faster than a hungry barracuda and a big arm quarterback, to Mike's eye, is the shiniest object there is.  I'm all for having Ryan Finley play more games in 2019 but, circling back to my original proposal I think it's time for Andy Dalton to play at least two more games as well.  Teams interested in Dalton need fresh film on him and the Bengals need to win just one game to avoid 0-16 which I find a wholly unacceptable record.  Also, since Dalton has one more year on his contract, he could potentially function as the "bridge" quarterback in 2020 while the Bengals look to Justin Fields or Trevor Lawrence -- or Tua Tagovailoa if he stays at Alabama -- in 2021.

If Andy Dalton does not play well in the late games there is a plethora of experienced quarterbacks worth consideration to be the "bridge" for Cincinnati in 2020.  Philip Rivers or even Eli Manning might be great "bridge" quarterbacks to bring in for a season; Drew Brees will be too expensive and Dak Prescott will stay in Dallas.  I would even consider bringing Jameis Winston in for a workout but, even better, what about taking a look at Cam Newton?  If he's healthy he can still compete.

Basically, Bengaldom, we have more options than just Andy Dalton, Ryan Finley, or falling into the trap of drafting a shiny object.

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-If-I-were-ZT

I posted an outlined version of this above FIK!

Of course I got ALL hate where at least you DID get some love.

The time to 'bench' Dalton was when this team WAS in the running for something like Forrest Gregg did with Kenny Anderson the year they went to their first SB!!

There's no future with Finley or the other guy!

Put Dalton in, trade him at the end of the season and start fresh!

BTW, Kenny Anderson was not a stud in the 1971 draft going to Augustana College that most never heard of.

Paul Brown had a brilliant football mind and an eye for talent!

More BAD film will not help Dalton at all. It's best the defendant doesn't take the stand. A lot of talent can be attained at other needed positions with the $17,000,000 owed Dalton next season.

Being a Bengals fan is like watching Sisyphus push the boulder up the mountain...cheering for him...thinking that he's going to make it to the top...

Only to have it tumble back down.

Then with renewed vigor cheering for him enthusiastically when he starts pushing again.

I'd look at guy like Teddy Bridgewater as the bridge
See what I did there?

(11-19-2019, 01:35 PM)Wyche Wrote: I'd look at guy like Teddy Bridgewater as the bridge
See what I did there?

I think Zac may think Ryan Tannehill is the guy to get us over the hill.

I will say I would have liked to see what Dalton could have done with a run game and throwing the ball 25 times a game.

(11-19-2019, 01:35 PM)Wyche Wrote: I'd look at guy like Teddy Bridgewater as the bridge
See what I did there?

Bridgewater was a hot prospect once......That's all water under the bridge now, but I still think your Bridgewater as the bridge idea holds water.

(11-19-2019, 01:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think Zac may think Ryan Tannehill is the guy to get us over the hill.

He wouldn't get us over the hill, but he'd be a decent stop gap.

(11-19-2019, 01:47 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I will say I would have liked to see what Dalton could have done with a run game and throwing the ball 25 times a game.

Me too. 

(11-19-2019, 01:48 PM)HuDey Wrote: Bridgewater was a hot prospect once......That's all water under the bridge now, but I still think your Bridgewater as the bridge idea holds water.

Well played sir.

Yeah, I'm not under any delusions that he'd bring a Lombardi, but he played well enough to keep the Saints on pace this year. Of course he'd have a MUCH steeper hill to climb here, but he'd probably be a good mentor and may pull out some wins.

(11-19-2019, 01:53 PM)Wyche Wrote: Well played sir.

Yeah, I'm not under any delusions that he'd bring a Lombardi, but he played well enough to keep the Saints on pace this year. Of course he'd have a MUCH steeper hill to climb here, but he'd probably be a good mentor and may pull out some wins.

He turned down starting opportunities last offseason to be Brees backup. I feel like he wouldn't come here.

Now that we have two games from Ryan Finley, let's compare some stats.

Time to throw: 2.83 seconds (Dalton: 2.28)
Time in pocket: 3.01 seconds (Dalton: 2.39)
Under Pressure: 43% of dropbacks (Dalton: 31%)
Completion Percentage when under pressure: 64% (Dalton: 47%)

— Jeaux Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) November 19, 2019

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