(11-18-2019, 08:34 AM)PDub80 Wrote:  Without ultra elite talent around him, Dalton has been unable to consistantly win over the last 2 seasons.

Wow.  Not just "elite" but "ultra elite"!!!!


If 7th place is "ULTRA ELITE" I wonder what top 2 or 3 would be.

Listening to Philadelphia talk radio this morning, I heard Ray Didinger say that the Eagles have "the worst receiving corps in football." Now, he's not correct -- several teams have worse WRs than the Eagles (including the Bengals, without AJ). Also, he's not technically employed by the Eagles, but he's one of those privileged few elite-level reporters who has special access to the players and ownership, frequently gets exclusive interviews and scoops, occasionally travels with the team, etc. Hobson would never dare say anything like this.... "Worst receiving corps? I disagree. With five players drafted in rounds 1 or 2 (Pro Bowler Jeffrey, Agholor, Jackson, Arcega-Whiteside, and Matthews), we're far from the worst. Just ask the Redskins, Ravens, Giants, Dolphins, Jets, Bills, or Panthers ... Has the WR corps been hurt by injury? Sure. Jeffrey has been dinged up, and Jackson is out. Are they less productive than last year? Sure. But far from the worst. Especially when you factor in Pro Bowl TE Ertz and second round pick Goedert!"

But the sad thing is that the Eagles ownership and management would look at this statement and acknowledge that they need WR help, and I'll bet they try to fix it in the offseason. Bengals would ignore it, make excuses, and possibly revoke Didinger's team privileges ...

(11-21-2019, 11:30 AM)shanebo Wrote: Listening to Philadelphia talk radio this morning, I heard Ray Didinger say that the Eagles have "the worst receiving corps in football."  Now, he's not correct -- several teams have worse WRs than the Eagles (including the Bengals, without AJ).  Also, he's not technically employed by the Eagles, but he's one of those privileged few elite-level reporters who has special access to the players and ownership, frequently gets exclusive interviews and scoops, occasionally travels with the team, etc.  Hobson would never dare say anything like this....  "Worst receiving corps?  I disagree.  With five players drafted in rounds 1 or 2 (Pro Bowler Jeffrey, Agholor, Jackson, Arcega-Whiteside, and Matthews), we're far from the worst.  Just ask the Redskins, Ravens, Giants, Dolphins, Jets, Bills, or Panthers ... Has the WR corps been hurt by injury?  Sure.  Jeffrey has been dinged up, and Jackson is out.  Are they less productive than last year?  Sure.  But far from the worst.  Especially when you factor in Pro Bowl TE Ertz and second round pick Goedert!"

But the sad thing is that the Eagles ownership and management would look at this statement and acknowledge that they need WR help, and I'll bet they try to fix it in the offseason.  Bengals would ignore it, make excuses, and possibly revoke Didinger's team privileges ...

It seems like when the Bengals need help at a position, they rely on the draft.

Like they knew LB and O-Line was an issue. Supposedly they wanted Risner in the 2nd, but he went the pick ahead of us. And they threw a 3rd Round pick at a LB.

At some point, you just have too many needs to fill in a single draft.

(11-18-2019, 02:14 AM)bonesaw Wrote: The smart teams have gave up the build through the draft theme since the cba limited practice time.  Patriots, Saints, Vikings, Rams, Eagles, Cowboys, etc have all used free agency and trades to get proven players and decreased their value on draft picks.  As per the last 3 decades we're behind the times and following the old wrong model model

Well...and lets face it...EVERY TEAM wants to draft well and recognizes the need for drafting well.

Other teams just use free agency/trades to improve.

The Patriots have 3 times the player personnel department size of the Bengals. Yet, they still sign free agents and make trades.

Basically, Hobson is asking for fans to give them more time.

Well, hate to tell him, but Marvin set the bar for the Bengals. He took a 2-14 team and turned them into an 8-8 team the very first year he came in. He then had them back to 8-8 and then 11-5 where they won the division.

Like it or not, most fans are not going to give Taylor multiple years of terrible records.

(11-17-2019, 05:36 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: See, I just figured that they would point to the Jets spending a boatload of money on free agents, and it having no winning impact on their season.

Le'Veon Bell
CJ Mosely
Jamison Crowder
Henry Anderson

Just to touch on the bigger money deals.

It's coming, just wait until the post season. The Redskins is always a go to example of failure for when they went all psycho in free agency and failed. The Eagles dream team is another.

But the truth is for every example of failure there's an example of a success story. They won't admit that though. Or that the draft is a total crap shoot either.

You have to build a team thru the draft, nobody really denies that. But you also have to fill draft miss holes thru free agency when you're close and Mikey refuses to do it.

(11-21-2019, 11:30 AM)shanebo Wrote: Listening to Philadelphia talk radio this morning, I heard Ray Didinger say that the Eagles have "the worst receiving corps in football."  Now, he's not correct -- several teams have worse WRs than the Eagles (including the Bengals, without AJ).  Also, he's not technically employed by the Eagles, but he's one of those privileged few elite-level reporters who has special access to the players and ownership, frequently gets exclusive interviews and scoops, occasionally travels with the team, etc.  Hobson would never dare say anything like this....  "Worst receiving corps?  I disagree.  With five players drafted in rounds 1 or 2 (Pro Bowler Jeffrey, Agholor, Jackson, Arcega-Whiteside, and Matthews), we're far from the worst.  Just ask the Redskins, Ravens, Giants, Dolphins, Jets, Bills, or Panthers ... Has the WR corps been hurt by injury?  Sure.  Jeffrey has been dinged up, and Jackson is out.  Are they less productive than last year?  Sure.  But far from the worst.  Especially when you factor in Pro Bowl TE Ertz and second round pick Goedert!"

But the sad thing is that the Eagles ownership and management would look at this statement and acknowledge that they need WR help, and I'll bet they try to fix it in the offseason.  Bengals would ignore it, make excuses, and possibly revoke Didinger's team privileges ...

Admittedly they are both injured, but how many other teams have two WRs drafted top 10?

(11-21-2019, 02:14 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: It's coming, just wait until the post season. The Redskins is always a go to example of failure for when they went all psycho in free agency and failed. The Eagles dream team is another.

But the truth is for every example of failure there's an example of a success story. They won't admit that though. Or that the draft is a total crap shoot either.

You have to build a team thru the draft, nobody really denies that. But you also have to fill draft miss holes thru free agency when you're close and Mikey refuses to do it.

I'm not a big fan of free agency but every once in a while it wouldn't hurt it to use it. Also we have had some success in the past with free agency not sure why it's such a taboo thing for the Bengals
The thing that really gets to me is the injury excuse; since 2015 we have drafted nothing but injured players in the first RD. Should we then stop drafting first RD picks.

(11-21-2019, 03:18 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: Admittedly they are both injured, but how many other teams have two WRs drafted top 10?

The Cowboys with Austin and Cooper are the only other one I can think of, although the Cardinals had both Crabtree and Kevin White in training camp, along with Larry Fitzgerald.

I couldn’t even finish reading the dyk riding Hobson has for the bengals. He’s pathetic and is probably paid by the franchise to back them regardless of how stupid the bengals are. He says they’ve made it clear to build around aj. Aj gonna be gone this off season and we will get nothing in return after losing our franchises best player. That in a nut shell is this f’ing team and how it’s ran. I almost promise they’ll butcher the draft again and who knows maybe they’ll be the first to to go winless in back to back seasons.

(11-21-2019, 03:28 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: The Cowboys with Austin and Cooper are the only other one I can think of, although the Cardinals had both Crabtree and Kevin White in training camp, along with Larry Fitzgerald.

Ross may have been drafted Top 10, but he plays like about a 5th Round pick.

(11-21-2019, 03:28 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: The Cowboys with Austin and Cooper are the only other one I can think of, although the Cardinals had both Crabtree and Kevin White in training camp, along with Larry Fitzgerald.

Hmmm ... suggests that maybe it's not such a good idea to draft WRs so high!!!

(11-21-2019, 02:14 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: It's coming, just wait until the post season. The Redskins is always a go to example of failure for when they went all psycho in free agency and failed. The Eagles dream team is another.

But the truth is for every example of failure there's an example of a success story. They won't admit that though. Or that the draft is a total crap shoot either.

You have to build a team thru the draft, nobody really denies that. But you also have to fill draft miss holes thru free agency when you're close and Mikey refuses to do it.

The Jaguars from two years ago, is about the best executed plan of "sell out for a title run" that I'm able to remember.  Of course they did not win a title, and now they are just a shell of that team from two years ago, but they went whole hog with a plan, and almost made it happen.

(11-21-2019, 06:53 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The Jaguars from two years ago, is about the best executed plan of "sell out for a title run" that I'm able to remember.  Of course they did not win a title, and now they are just a shell of that team from two years ago, but they went whole hog with a plan, and almost made it happen.

The Rams like 3 years ago, got Big Whit and others in free agency and come damn close. There's many more examples of teams having much success using free agency. 

(11-21-2019, 07:02 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The Rams like 3 years ago, got Big Whit and others in free agency and come damn close. There's many more examples of teams having much success using free agency. 

I'm sure that if we look harder, we could find a few others.  However, the only REAL formula for continued success in the modern NFL is follow the Patriots example.  Get a coach with a master plan, and allow him to have decision making power over not just the team on the field, but have a staff of talent seekers looking for players with specific skill sets that the coach needs, in order to employ his plan.

(11-21-2019, 08:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm sure that if we look harder, we could find a few others.  However, the only REAL formula for continued success in the modern NFL is follow the Patriots example.  Get a coach with a master plan, and allow him to have decision making power over not just the team on the field, but have a staff of talent seekers looking for players with specific skill sets that the coach needs, in order to employ his plan.

Yes! ie to have a System and find players that fit it.

I've felt that we've never really did that. We just kind of select guys in the draft and then try to fit them to what we do. Like CB's. Some are good man in college. Some zone. We'd draft man guys and then play them in Zone.

"The biggest off-season overhaul in Bengals history yielded the largest coaching staff the team has ever had and ushered in a new offensive scheme, a new defensive scheme, and a new strength and conditioning approach, as well as a new culture."

Yeah? How's that overhaul working out for y'all, Geoff? A new culture? What exactly is this new culture based on? An aversion to winning football games?

Hobson was a clown before, that isn't news, but hot damn this might be Hobson at peak spin.

Good God, I hadn't even gotten to the part where he tries to rationalize building the offense around a now oft-injured 31 year old WR a mere paragraph after asserting that we should give this re-build at least 3 years before we look for success. Yes, absolutely, let's build a team around a WR who'll be 33 and on the decline when this team actually expects to be competitive again, BRILLIANT plan!

(11-22-2019, 02:48 AM)Ravage Wrote: "The biggest off-season overhaul in Bengals history yielded the largest coaching staff the team has ever had and ushered in a new offensive scheme, a new defensive scheme, and a new strength and conditioning approach, as well as a new culture."

Yeah? How's that overhaul working out for y'all, Geoff? A new culture? What exactly is this new culture based on? An aversion to winning football games?

Hobson was a clown before, that isn't news, but hot damn this might be Hobson at peak spin.

Good God, I hadn't even gotten to the part where he tries to rationalize building the offense around a now oft-injured 31 year old WR a mere paragraph after asserting that we should give this re-build at least 3 years before we look for success. Yes, absolutely, let's build a team around a WR who'll be 33 and on the decline when this team actually expects to be competitive again, BRILLIANT plan!

Yes - The do a lot of rationalizing. The PR that comes from Hobson and the Bengals coaches reminds me of a politician where there is overwhelming evidence...yet they state the opposite at times.

(11-21-2019, 03:18 PM)J24 Wrote: I'm not a big fan of free agency but every once in a while it wouldn't hurt it to use it. Also we have had some success in the past with free agency not sure why it's such a taboo thing for the Bengals
The thing that really gets to me is the injury excuse; since 2015 we have drafted nothing but injured players in the first RD. Should we then stop drafting first RD picks.

It's easy to not be a fan of FA when you see the Bengals sign guys like Bobby Hart, Rey Maualuga, etc. signed to deals that we think are very overpaid.

Bengals need to do a better job of scouting outside talent, courting that talent, and offering fair compensation.

As for drafting first rounders who are injured, that has typically been because the Bengals felt they were getting good value at their draft spot. Basically someone who should have gone (way) earlier but injuries caused them to slide to the Bengals. The Bengals then think they have a good enough roster to have that rookie sit and heal for however long and essentially come in as a great value pick once healthy.

If they pick 1st overall, there's no value pick anymore 

The Bills rebuilt their roster with free agency this offseason and are what 7-3 now? And they didn't sign a bunch of huge names.