(11-20-2019, 12:39 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I feel like adding a Littleton would be a big start at LB.

Correct but they need more than just a starting LB and their depth is also very poor at certain positions.
It's going to be a multi-year overhaul if they try to go that route.

Cut the bad players, trade the players that have value but don't want to be here, Sign one or two big free agents, sign some depth players, and trade the #1 pick for more picks.
From a roster standpoint I don't think we are in as bad as a situation as the record would state but we need to actually address the issues on the roster.

(11-20-2019, 12:42 PM)MEBengalsFan Wrote: Great coaches are able to make bad players look great. The PATS have great coaches that make ok players look like super stars and the coaches know they are not super stars so they don't get into the bidding war and allow those players to walk. The players that are super stars are paid and continue to play for the PATS. 

Zac Taylor isn't that type of coach. ML wasn't that type of coach and this is why the FO needs to bring in quality FA that are truly worth their pay. They also need to draft the best available player in the draft. 

I'm not expecting much next year from the Bengals. This year I will be surprised if they win 2 games. At this point it looks like they will go 1-15 or 0-16. 

If ZT cannot get the Bengals to have a winning season next year I would move on from him. Or if the team starts off 0-4 I would let him go right during the press conference, especially if the team goes 0-16 this year. 

Not disputing any of that, and while I think we likely are wasting our time with ZT, it is worth remembering that Big Bill was no instant success himself. Didn't have a winning season until his 4th season as a HC. His first Superbowl win was only his 2nd ever winning season and it took a 10 year period for that to happen. Before somebody goes crazy, no I'm not linking the two, but there are many examples of greats in all sports who weren't an instant hit.

If we draft a QB, I'd probably rather let another HC come in and they can hopefully build their era together here. Personally from a point of fairness, I'd say this season was never going to go that well and that a 2nd season would be a fairer reflection of whether ZT has any potential to be a good coach. But he is definitely hugely disappointing thus far, I'm not saying he isn't. If I read today that he got sacked, I'd be fine with that, as would most of us I feel.

(11-20-2019, 12:49 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: If the Bengals go Burrow round 1, they can still get Austin Jackson OT out of USC and maybe Kindley.  But it would take some luck.  I just do not believe this Front Office will do anything signficant with FA.  It is and has been a glaring flaw to MB concept of building a team via the draft with the smallest draft war room in the NFL.  It is part of the problem.  

Yes...and draft pick offensive lineman are a coin flip as to if they are good. That's why I'd take advantage of the QB on a rookie contract and invest it in proven lineman.

But, yes - They probably won't sign free agents like the guys I mentioned.

Trying to fix this through the draft is likely a 3-4-5 year thing at best.

(11-20-2019, 01:53 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yes...and draft pick offensive lineman are a coin flip as to if they are good. That's why I'd take advantage of the QB on a rookie contract and invest it in proven lineman.

But, yes - They probably won't sign free agents like the guys I mentioned.

Trying to fix this through the draft is likely a 3-4-5 year thing at best.

I brought this up a bunch during the "ZT is Sean McVey" talk during the off-season.  There are multiple things lacking in our commitment to the Rams' model, such as:

1. saddling ZT with a middling vet QB rather than a rookie QB of his choice (though we seem to have blown this part up)
2. not using cap space and/or cap spaced saved by having a rookie QB on a cheap contract to fill holes
3. not trading for anyone to fill holes
4. not trading any of our own players (yet) to accrue more hand-picked talent by ZT
5. not hiring a proven old-ass stodgy DC to help take a rookie HC with an offensive resume's mind off that side of the ball


So, 1 year in and we are a mile away from the Rams' model...but hey the Rams don't even look like a playoff team anymore and the other young offensive minded HCs are flopping quite a bit already.  

(11-20-2019, 12:48 AM)Kingslayer Wrote:  

Only one way to fix this, Mike Brown, gone

Even that is no guarantee. I once had some hope that Pumpkin would run things differently but I see no evidence of any change now that her and Toy and Dufus Tobin have more influence. 

(11-20-2019, 10:22 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Indeed. And I think a GM would gut the coaching staff and bring in qualified guys.

They could hire a competent GM but the ownership (even if backed away from personnel decisions) would have to approve increased expenditures for scouts and coaches. There simply has to be a totally different business approach used here. 

(11-20-2019, 02:06 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I brought this up a bunch during the "ZT is Sean McVey" talk during the off-season.  There are multiple things lacking in our commitment to the Rams' model, such as:

1. saddling ZT with a middling vet QB rather than a rookie QB of his choice (though we seem to have blown this part up)
2. not using cap space and/or cap spaced saved by having a rookie QB on a cheap contract to fill holes
3. not trading for anyone to fill holes
4. not trading any of our own players (yet) to accrue more hand-picked talent by ZT
5. not hiring a proven old-ass stodgy DC to help take a rookie HC with an offensive resume's mind off that side of the ball


So, 1 year in and we are a mile away from the Rams' model...but hey the Rams don't even look like a playoff team anymore and the other young offensive minded HCs are flopping quite a bit already.  

It really does feel like defense is coming back in the NFL.

(11-20-2019, 03:12 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It really does feel like defense is coming back in the NFL.

So should the Bengals be concentrating more on D rather than spending their first 3 draft picks (and 2 out of 3 of the proposed big FA signings) on the O?

You take the first pick in the draft and trade it up for more picks in the current draft. You trade Dalton. You release Cordy Glenn, Dre Kirkpatrick, etc. With that, you acquire what talent you can and hope for the best. This team has far too many holes and issues to fix this in one year. Draft capital and cap space is key to making this change (I would say look at the Browns, but they really aren't a prime example)

MB paying a personally unknown guy any close to top 10 money for any position will never happen. That only happens if he has a connection to them. He would rather burn his money than pay for a top vet lineman or Qb. Can you see MB giving a proven vet qb 25 mill a year. Or a top lineman 15 mill a year. Just tell him he has to and that could be what finally kills him.

(11-19-2019, 11:15 PM)TKUHL Wrote: What would you do to fix this team this off season. Here’s the catch, it has to be somewhat realistic. As in something MB may actually do.

My list will be pretty short considering the rules.

1. Don’t draft a QB! At least not this year. I would trade Dalton (if the Saints are willing) for Teddy Bridgewater. He would be an upgrade over anyone we have now unless Dolegala comes in and balls out. May have to throw in an extra late pick to the trade, who knows.

2. Build the lines in the draft as much as possible. LBers too.

3. FA’s has to be a priority. Unlikely though.

3. Fire the D Coordinator.

4. Let Zac know it’s either calling plays as a OC or he needs to give it up.

This may be too much for a MB wish list. But it’s not out of the realm of possibility with him.

Why would NO trade Teddy for Dalton???    

(11-20-2019, 06:43 PM)scorp1974 Wrote: Why would NO trade Teddy for Dalton???    

Perhaps Sean Payton falls and hits his head.

I dunno...  that's all I got !

(11-20-2019, 01:41 PM)TheCincinnatiKid Wrote: Not disputing any of that, and while I think we likely are wasting our time with ZT, it is worth remembering that Big Bill was no instant success himself. Didn't have a winning season until his 4th season as a HC. His first Superbowl win was only his 2nd ever winning season and it took a 10 year period for that to happen. Before somebody goes crazy, no I'm not linking the two, but there are many examples of greats in all sports who weren't an instant hit.

If we draft a QB, I'd probably rather let another HC come in and they can hopefully build their era together here. Personally from a point of fairness, I'd say this season was never going to go that well and that a 2nd season would be a fairer reflection of whether ZT has any potential to be a good coach. But he is definitely hugely disappointing thus far, I'm not saying he isn't. If I read today that he got sacked, I'd be fine with that, as would most of us I feel.

If ZT goes 0-16 and than 0-4 next year, can him. I like to give the coaches a fair shot but going 0-20 as a coach you better be ready to be let go. Plain and simple. 

(11-22-2019, 06:38 PM)MEBengalsFan Wrote: If ZT goes 0-16 and than 0-4 next year, can him. I like to give the coaches a fair shot but going 0-20 as a coach you better be ready to be let go. Plain and simple. 

that does not but waste all of next year and those players time.....  If he goes 0-16 fire his ass the moment the clock expires. on game 16

I would be all in for Bridgewater.I sort of forgot about him,that’s a good point.I just do really hope this team doesn’t draft a quarterback.At this point it would be a total disaster.

(11-20-2019, 03:47 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: So should the Bengals be concentrating more on D rather than spending their first 3 draft picks (and 2 out of 3 of the proposed big FA signings) on the O?

We basically need to just add talent at this point. 1 or 2 guys won't make either side of the ball superior.

Hopefully we land a great QB at 1. Land an Aaron Rodgers and you're in for a pretty good decade.

(11-22-2019, 08:31 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: I would be all in for Bridgewater.I sort of forgot about him,that’s a good point.I just do really hope this team doesn’t draft a quarterback.At this point it would be a total disaster.

IF Mike Brown is willing to spend money, he could easily waive Glenn and spend that money on Conklin at RT...then sign Scherff at Guard.

Scherff is 28. Conklin 25.

Conklin/Scherff/Hopkins/Miller/Williams <---- That would be a Top 10 line!

Sign Hunter Henry at TE. He's 25. Pretty complete.

Draft Burrow at QB. Jefferson at WR in the 2nd Round who was Burrow target at LSU.

WR's - Boyd/Jefferson/Ross/Tate/Erickson
RB's - Mixon/Bernard
TE's - Henry/Uzomah/Sample

Trade Dalton for a 2nd Round pick. Tag and trade AJ Green. (Use his money to pay the 3 free agents above.)
TE's

(11-20-2019, 03:49 PM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: You take the first pick in the draft and trade it up for more picks in the current draft. You trade Dalton. You release Cordy Glenn, Dre Kirkpatrick, etc. With that, you acquire what talent you can and hope for the best. This team has far too many holes and issues to fix this in one year. Draft capital and cap space is key to making this change (I would say look at the Browns, but they really aren't a prime example)

My thoughts exactly!
I would love to see Bengals trade pick 1
Maybe with Dolphins
Take their pick and use on Chase Young
Get their 2nd round pick - BPA
Our 2nd Round pick - BPA
Trade Dalton 2nd round pick - BPA

should be able to get OT, LB and another position of need. OL is actually pretty good in this draft.
If a QB slides to round 2 maybe draft one


Sign a vet, someone like Case Keenum will be available.
I would try to trade Gio for a pick - nothing wrong with Gio, but you have greater needs than a RB that gets 8 touches
Sign a couple FA and you are in better shape. I would even be willing to trade #1 for 1st this season and 1st next season. QB class is going to be strong again next year.

(11-22-2019, 08:31 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: I would be all in for Bridgewater.I sort of forgot about him,that’s a good point.I just do really hope this team doesn’t draft a quarterback.At this point it would be a total disaster.

Looking at how the Dalton era has petered out post-2015 and we are looking at going into 2020 with Finley/draft?/journeyman? I really wish we had looked at QB before this.

Even going into the 2019 draft it was like...no QB in round 1 because Dalton isn't our biggest issue.  Well, going into 2020 it looks like QB might be our biggest issue and now we are just going to kick the can down the road until the whole team is less awful?  Ehh, ida know.  We need someone dynamic under center to take people's minds off of how terrible everything else is.