(11-25-2019, 12:08 PM)MEBengalsFan Wrote: Was it ML who made the lowball offers to players that left in FA? Was it ML that hand picked the OL that failed? He made mid season decision with a OC and DC because well they hurt the team. Overall the Bengals need an experience HC that brings in an experience OC and DC. 

I'm all for the team rebuilding the coaching staff again. ZT isn't the answer IMO. I hope he proves me wrong next year, but right now I don't think he and the coaching staff he has is the answer. 

No, that was Mike Brown, the guy that kept Marvin Lewis about 8 years too long.

ZT may not be the answer, but we already know Marvin isn't. 

(11-25-2019, 12:17 PM)Wyche Wrote: No, that was Mike Brown, the guy that kept Marvin Lewis about 8 years too long.

ZT may not be the answer, but we already know Marvin isn't. 

Indeed. Seems most debates on here start and end with nobody can win under MB...

Taylor is a horrible coach though...and this team should have more than 0 wins.

Teams with 0 wins are ones that are purposely gutted. And even they generally win 2-3 games.

(11-25-2019, 12:15 PM)Wyche Wrote: Last season Dalton played behind Glenn/Boling/Hopkins(Price)/Redmond/Hart.

This season it was Jerry(Smith)/Jordan(Price)/Hopkins/Miller/Hart

Last season he had AJ to start the season and the run game was clicking.

Once Green and others got injured, Glenn missed time, etc....Dalton struggled too.

With the offense exponentially worse personnel wise than it was last year, exactly how did you expect Dalton to NOT struggle?

Taylor is not doing well to say the least, but lately I'm seeing you make stuff up out of thin air to pile on (like saying AZ oline is worse than ours when Football Outsiders says AZ is 22nd and we're 31st or 30th)....why? Why the need to just make stuff up? You're better than that bro.

Finley is mediocre with below average arm strength. Our WRs are blanketed most plays, he doesn't have the arm to throw them open, nor the time to let things develop down the field on most plays due to lousy protection. Naturally, a rookie with these limitations is going to struggle with these problems surrounding him. It's like some people have never played the sport. 


It's also time to see how Dolegala plays.

Yep to both highlighted

I've tried hard to equate ZT's failures to just having a bad team, and he does have a bad team... however. His scheming, game planning, play calling leaves a lot to be desired. Yes I realize we can't have a top notch exotic offense with this Oline and so on. But man ! this offense just has little to no "flow" at all, no chemistry, no innovation. It's as generic as a white labeled can with black lettering saying green beans.

The Finley project badly needs to end, put Dolegala out there next week.

(11-25-2019, 12:20 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Indeed. Seems most debates on here start and end with nobody can win under MB...

Taylor is a horrible coach though...and this team should have more than 0 wins.

Teams with 0 wins are ones that are purposely gutted. And even they generally win 2-3 games.

I'm not willing to say he's horrible just yet. I will say he got himself a big ol dose of the Bengals reality though! This roster needs some serious overhaul.

That said, I've seen some improvement. The run game is improving, and the defense has played decent consecutive weeks. Dennard has showed me he's our best run defending CB. He was everywhere yesterday. We missed him to start the year, no question. Pratt is starting to show up. The line is improving a bit. There are a few bright spots. You just gotta look real hard....lol.

(11-25-2019, 12:24 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yep to both highlighted

I've tried hard to equate ZT's failures to just having a bad team, and he does have a bad team... however. His scheming, game planning, play calling leaves a lot to be desired. Yes I realize we can't have a top notch exotic offense with this Oline and so on. But man ! this offense just has little to no "flow" at all, no chemistry, no innovation. It's as generic as a white labeled can with black lettering saying green beans.

The Finley project badly needs to end, put Dolegala out there next week.

See my above on Zac.

As for the QB situation, I think we've seen enough. Hopefully they're getting Jake some reps and getting him ready to play before the end of the season. My opinion is that Finley has cost us the last two games.

I hate to be the realist here, but what did you really expect with the offense when you have the following:

3rd string LT
3rd string LG
Worst RT in the league
No AJ Green
Ross missing most of the year.

Throw in the fact that you have Finley playing his first games and I'm not surprised.

What I will say is this - the last 2 games tell me that the team is making progress and still playing hard. The defense has been playing better and at least they are running the ball better.

I have no issues with the staff and a new QB provided that they make some additions on the O-line outside of just plugging Jonah in. If they don't do that, then there won't be a QB in the league that could make much of a difference. Throw AJ back in the mix as well and this team could have a pretty good 2020.

(11-25-2019, 12:41 PM)Wyche Wrote: As for the QB situation, I think we've seen enough. Hopefully they're getting Jake some reps and getting him ready to play before the end of the season. My opinion is that Finley has cost us the last two games.

Agree,

I'll own it, I was fully on the put Finley in train. We had to know what we had ? AD is not the answer moving forward so.....

I knew the chances Finley was the savior were slim. But I thought maybe just maybe his pocket awareness, scrambling ability might just give him enough of an edge with this Oline to show some success. He's not even given us a glimmer of hope ! Can you judge a career on 3 games ? No

But I think it's safe to say he's not ready yet at a minimum. Will Dolegala flop to ? probably But again we need to see what we have for next season.

And I agree better QB play over last couple games and we're 2-9 now

(11-25-2019, 12:41 PM)Wyche Wrote: I'm not willing to say he's horrible just yet. I will say he got himself a big ol dose of the Bengals reality though! This roster needs some serious overhaul.

That said, I've seen some improvement. The run game is improving, and the defense has played decent consecutive weeks. Dennard has showed me he's our best run defending CB. He was everywhere yesterday. We missed him to start the year, no question. Pratt is starting to show up. The line is improving a bit. There are a few bright spots. You just gotta look real hard....lol.



See my above on Zac.

As for the QB situation, I think we've seen enough. Hopefully they're getting Jake some reps and getting him ready to play before the end of the season. My opinion is that Finley has cost us the last two games.

LO @ the defense improving. The Raiders scored 3 points on the Jets and Carr got benched.

And they gave up a 90 yard TD drive to the Steelers 4th string QB, with no Juju, Pouncey, or Conner...

(11-25-2019, 01:17 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agree,

I'll own it, I was fully on the put Finley in train. We had to know what we had ? AD is not the answer moving forward so.....

I knew the chances Finley was the savior were slim. But I thought maybe just maybe his pocket awareness, scrambling ability might just give him enough of an edge with this Oline to show some success. He's not even given us a glimmer of hope ! Can you judge a career on 3 games ? No

But I think it's safe to say he's not ready yet at a minimum. Will Dolegala flop to ? probably But again we need to see what we have for next season.

And I agree better QB play over last couple games and we're 2-9 now

In my opinion, they had to see what Finley was. I really didn't know what to expect to be honest. He's definitely not ready....arm strength wise. He does some good things, but the pocket awareness is not what it was hyped as being in my eyes. He's fumbled quite a few times back there, not sensing the pressure. What he does do well is scramble and move around. That awareness should improve with more time. He's a rookie, after all. He's done ok with pre snap reads too. 

Accuracy due to a weak arm is his biggest downfall. Very poor completion percentage.

(11-25-2019, 02:31 PM)Wyche Wrote: In my opinion, they had to see what Finley was. I really didn't know what to expect to be honest. He's definitely not ready....arm strength wise. He does some good things, but the pocket awareness is not what it was hyped as being in my eyes. He's fumbled quite a few times back there, not sensing the pressure. What he does do well is scramble and move around. That awareness should improve with more time. He's a rookie, after all. He's done ok with pre snap reads too. 

Accuracy due to a weak arm is his biggest downfall. Very poor completion percentage.

Honestly, the arm strength issues should have been readily apparent in practice...I would think.

(11-25-2019, 02:29 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: LO @ the defense improving. The Raiders scored 3 points on the Jets and Carr got benched.

And they gave up a 90 yard TD drive to the Steelers 4th string QB, with no Juju, Pouncey, or Conner...

The Raiders still had Jacobs though, and were above 500, right? Also, the Jets D is starting to quietly play some pretty good football as of late. Yes, if you can't see some slight improvement from the defense, then you're just spewing a bunch of hyperbole. Rudolph killed them the first time out, as did the Wildcat, which the Stoolers didn't even try for some reason. Dennard has absolutely improved pursuit to the edge, and Pratt is playing better. Hell, I even saw Nick Vigil make a nice play in coverage yesterday. Granted, there was nowhere to go but up, but there has been some improvement.

I'm not too worried about the staff having the #1 pick. To me, it's a no brainer on who should be the pick (Chase Young). But the rest of the draft....

(11-25-2019, 02:37 PM)Wyche Wrote: The Raiders still had Jacobs though, and were above 500, right? Also, the Jets D is starting to quietly play some pretty good football as of late. Yes, if you can't see some slight improvement from the defense, then you're just spewing a bunch of hyperbole. Rudolph killed them the first time out, as did the Wildcat, which the Stoolers didn't even try for some reason. Dennard has absolutely improved pursuit to the edge, and Pratt is playing better. Hell, I even saw Nick Vigil make a nice play in coverage yesterday. Granted, there was nowhere to go but up, but there has been some improvement.

Improvement = Not being historically bad. We still have the worst defense in the NFL.

(11-25-2019, 02:36 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Honestly, the arm strength issues should have been readily apparent in practice...I would think.

I'm sure they were, it's plausible they're looking at his intangibles and seeing what he does well and what he does badly when the bullets are flying.

(11-25-2019, 02:39 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Improvement = Not being historically bad. We still have the worst defense in the NFL.

Right, which is all I was claiming. Bad coverage by Webb was essentially all that long drive was. Lawson, Hubbard, and Dunlap all had a good game. Missing Pouncey probably produced the Billings sack. As I said, Dennard was all over the field. He played a very nice game, tackling wise. I didn't find myself laughing at the defense Sunday or last week, and that's an improvement.

The staff that decided to be edgy and took Sample with their second round pick last year, no thanks. But hey they might need 50 games to evaluate him.

(11-25-2019, 11:25 AM)jason Wrote: Bengals week 4 2020 injury report... AJ Green doubtful ankle.

That very well could be also... 

(11-25-2019, 01:17 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agree,

I'll own it, I was fully on the put Finley in train. We had to know what we had ? AD is not the answer moving forward so.....

I knew the chances Finley was the savior were slim. But I thought maybe just maybe his pocket awareness, scrambling ability might just give him enough of an edge with this Oline to show some success. He's not even given us a glimmer of hope ! Can you judge a career on 3 games ? No

But I think it's safe to say he's not ready yet at a minimum. Will Dolegala flop to ? probably But again we need to see what we have for next season.

And I agree better QB play over last couple games and we're 2-9 now

We know now in my opinion Finley can be a decent backup, he operated missing key players and is a rookie. As for AD, what is more valuable your starting NFL QB for a trade or the guy you benched. AD has 5 games to get his trade value back up for us. As for Jake, let him compete in training camp for a roster spot in 2020 or give him an audition week 16 against the Phins

(11-25-2019, 02:29 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: LO @ the defense improving. The Raiders scored 3 points on the Jets and Carr got benched.

And they gave up a 90 yard TD drive to the Steelers 4th string QB, with no Juju, Pouncey, or Conner...

Why mock everything said? They have improved the last 2 weeks, if you don't see it in points allowed and intensity you are just looking for conflict. He and none has said the defense if fixed and great, just had 2 good games back to back.

(11-24-2019, 07:46 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Honestly, I'm all for Wilksing Taylor.

Unless this was an intentional tank job (I don't think the Bengals are that smart or forward thinking), then Zac should definitely be axed.

This season was a complete disaster from the staff hires to the Dalton/Finley benchings, to 0-11.

I think any other franchise washes their hands of this, hires a proven HC and takes the franchise QB #1 overall.

This was a Hue Jackson level of disaster, without the intentional tanking. It shouldn't even be a discussion IMO.

(11-25-2019, 12:03 PM)Wyche Wrote: Well....Marvin only won one of the last 9 himself....and the team has been circling the drain since the 2015 meltdown if we're being honest....

This is very true.

Honestly, in my opinion, there is almost no hope for this team unless they hire an experienced coach with credibility to bring in a top staff.

And who is given control over personnel with a greatly expanded scouting group.

Plus a willingness to add at least 6 quality starting players through first three draft picks and three quality free agents.

Such a new program will still take 2 to 3 years to make turn this aging roster into a playoff contender.

This is never going to happen.