(11-25-2019, 01:42 PM)Okeana Wrote: at this point, if you're wanting the Bengals to win a game this season you're actually not a fan of this team.  Finley should play out the rest of the year 100% and secure us the #1 pick because it may be the most important thing he will ever do on an NFL field.

look we can still win 1 and have the first pick no issue.   No fan wants to see their team go 0-16

(11-25-2019, 02:01 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Andy's record in the 3 years prior to Zac getting here was just 18-24-1. He hasn't had a winning record in a season since 2015.

At some point you have to try something different even if it fails, just as the case was with Marvin, at least IMO.

I get that Andy is better than Finley...but we were 0-8 WITH Andy too.

Now people are sure we would have won the last 2 games with him.

WITH Andy, Taylor might have tried to throw 60 times a game against the Steelers and Raiders...and still lost.

There were 2 games with Andy where we had like 50 yards in the 1st half. Things didn't work with Andy either.

(11-25-2019, 02:09 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: look we can still win 1 and have the first pick no issue.   No fan wants to see their team go 0-16

And it will be interesting to see how THAT FACT changes things.

IF we are tanking...we can now win 1.

Although...I doubt that management or this staff wants to be 0-16...so I suspect they are trying to win.

(11-25-2019, 02:06 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Finley sailed atleast 2 throws out of bounds when we had WR's WIDE OPEN deep. One to take I believe last week. And one to Erickson yesterday.

He also missed a couple throws by more than 5 yards short and behind guys. The throws were too bad to be intercepted.

I doubt he looks good in practice either given what we've seen in games.

Yep

He's had several throws that were just so far off target it's not even funny. When he missed Erickson on that deep throw I was like you've got to be kidding me. I could have got it closer.

(11-25-2019, 02:15 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yep

He's had several throws that were just so far off target it's not even funny. When he missed Erickson on that deep throw I was like you've got to be kidding me. I could have got it closer.

Ha! I thought the same thing on the deep one. I'm seriously pretty sure I could have made that throw...and it's been a while since I've thrown a football!

Throws like that are the difference in winning and losing.

(11-25-2019, 02:02 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: I've been a fan since '81.  Don't recall ever wanting the Bengals to lose a game.  I just can't turn it on and off like that.  I would never in my right mind root for the Steelers to win yesterday.

Intentionally failing just to get a better draft pick would do so much damage to the team.  It's not just about one man.  There's a whole team that is playing for their livelihood.  They need to build a winning culture.  It starts at the top with the FO.  

The Patriots have consistently had late round number 1 picks (or none at all).  If they don't consistently need a top 3 pick to be successful, why would we?  You could bring in all of the top 10 picks for next year and it won't make a damn bit of difference if management and coaching is not fulling committed and possess the ability to be successful.  

Mike Brown has returned to the style of management he loved so much during the 90's.  Cheap and stupid.  

Sometimes you need a full reset to rebuild into something great and what does a win-get us?  Absolutely nothing because it doesn't develop any culture, it doesn't make your offseason better, and it doesn't do anything for this season.  There is a big difference between rooting for another team and understanding all factors.  Also please stop comparing us to the patriots who have consistently had the greatest coach and quarterback in nfl history.  They have their culture because they hit the cosmic jackpot and they have never had to replace their quarterback in almost 20 years. 

I 100% agree that the management is the problem with this team.  They want to win thru the draft, but don't invest the money into a proper scouting department.  They want to sign their own players, but often times don't on top guys, and lastly, they never move on from guys they should when they get more return value.  Watch what happens this offseason when AJ green moves on from the team and didn't play a snap for team in 2019... to think we could have gotten a first round pick from the patriots for him, but we will get nothing.

Their just stupid stupid stupid

(11-25-2019, 02:09 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: look we can still win 1 and have the first pick no issue.   No fan wants to see their team go 0-16

well maybe they will win a single game so you can rub one out in your bengals fan room.  

Personally I know that hitting rock bottom could force the team to change so I prefer that.

Mike Brown killed the culture for nearly 30 years. Like rag weed that chokes out beautiful flowers in the garden, Mike Brown's decisions has spread like root rot.

You can blame Taylor, Lewis, Shula...but the problem is and always will be Mike Brown as the CEO/GM of the Bengals. He should have been gone years ago and should fully transfer the organization leadership to a bona fide GM at the end of this year. And Tobin should go as well.

(11-25-2019, 02:23 PM)Okeana Wrote: well maybe they will win a single game so you can rub one out in your bengals fan room.  

Personally I know that hitting rock bottom could force the team to change so I prefer that.

what change is that they just brought In a whole new staff its doubtfull they will do it 2 years in a row.

(11-25-2019, 01:33 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I was one of those who thought Andy should be benched if they went into the bye without a win. I felt like they needed to see what they had in Finley and Dolegala, and being in the midst of a complete turd of a season was the perfect time to do so. 

How do you find out what you have or don't have in those guys if they don't get an opportunity to play? I mean, this team has absolutely nothing to lose right now - except for more games. 

That's cool. But 3 weeks later don't cry (not that you have) about the culture created by sticking with Finley. We are knee deep in this now. It's those who called for this over and over that are now complaining about him starting. I don't want to call them out on it, but it makes it hard not to given the meltdown about him starting.

(11-25-2019, 02:09 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: What does he want to do?

Some games we throw to TE's and don't run. Some games we throw 51 times and don't run. Some games we run and don't throw to the TE's or RB's.

I literally have no clue what they try to accomplish.

What players do fit that system?

They brought in Sample as a blocking TE, then barely played him and barely tried to run the ball? They signed Gio to a high value extension per year...and don't use him much.

It's puzzling.

Well he wants to run the Ball and hit off play action. Problem is our offensive Line can't block and we have very little deep threats if any right now.

(11-25-2019, 03:28 PM)J24 Wrote: Well he wants to run the Ball and hit off play action. Problem is our offensive Line can't block and we have very little deep threats if any right now.

See against the Steelers, he seemed to run it on 1st down like every time. Some of those times he should have tried play action.

But, yeah...the offensive line seemed worse than normal against the Steelers.

(11-25-2019, 12:04 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah...it takes 4 years of games for our QB Whisperer to know if a guy is good or bad.

Zac Taylor on evaluating QB talent"

(11-25-2019, 02:01 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Andy's record in the 3 years prior to Zac getting here was just 18-24-1. He hasn't had a winning record in a season since 2015.

At some point you have to try something different even if it fails, just as the case was with Marvin, at least IMO.

18-24 is still much better than what we have now.  I get it, gotta make the change but geez Finley is so bad he makes benching a guy who hasn't been good for 4 years look stupid. 

(11-25-2019, 02:24 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Mike Brown killed the culture for nearly 30 years.  Like rag weed that chokes out beautiful flowers in the garden, Mike Brown's decisions has spread like root rot.  

You can blame Taylor, Lewis, Shula...but the problem is and always will be Mike Brown as the CEO/GM of the Bengals.  He should have been gone years ago and should fully transfer the organization leadership to a bona fide GM at the end of this year.   And Tobin should go as well.

Lots of teams would give their GM 29 years to win a playoff game! 

(11-25-2019, 02:21 PM)Okeana Wrote: Sometimes you need a full reset to rebuild into something great and what does a win-get us?  Absolutely nothing because it doesn't develop any culture, it doesn't make your offseason better, and it doesn't do anything for this season.  There is a big difference between rooting for another team and understanding all factors.  Also please stop comparing us to the patriots who have consistently had the greatest coach and quarterback in nfl history.  They have their culture because they hit the cosmic jackpot and they have never had to replace their quarterback in almost 20 years. 

You don't see the Steelers, Packers, Broncos, Cowboys, etc. intentionally losing games.  It's just not the way.  You play 16 games a year and you have to at least TRY to develop the players on the team.  Giving up on the season is giving up on the team.   Look at the stupid ass Browns.  Likely 13 losing seasons in a row with great draft positions every year.  Doesn't mean a damn thing if everyone is not on board.  I don't see the point of embarrassing the players and fans by intentionally games.  

As a business owner, I believe failing on purpose is absolutely ridiculous and is a recipe for disaster.

I legit think they're scared they'll go 0-16. Losing to that depleted Steelers roster has to make them question if they can win a game.

I actually think Taylor has done a pretty good job of getting the players to buy in and stay committed. Not many coaches would still have players out there hustling at 0-11. IMO that shows HC qualities.... he just needs to give up the play calling until he gets more experience.

(11-25-2019, 06:02 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I legit think they're scared they'll go 0-16. Losing to that depleted Steelers roster has to make them question if they can win a game.

I think the decision to go back to Dalton was....

FO....

You want to be HC next year you got 5 games left to get us some wins and turn this around




On the original question of killing the culture...

CSI is already on the scene.

(11-25-2019, 02:09 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: look we can still win 1 and have the first pick no issue.   No fan wants to see their team go 0-16