(11-25-2019, 11:09 AM)Synric Wrote: They drafted all that and weren't successful until they went after their QB.

Texans were in the same boat 3 first round pass rushers and weren't successful until they went after their QB.

Franchise QBs are the hardest to find position in football. If you have a chance to get one you do it no matter what...Quarterback I'd thr most important position on the field.

Joe Burrow has the makings of one doing unprecedented things by a QB in the toughest conference in College Football. I can't wait to see him against Georgia in a couple weeks and then against Clemson or Ohio State (high possibility of Utah's top 3 defense too). If he can keep his team who aren't nearly as good as Clemson or OSU competitive it will make the decision alot easier.

You are kind of making the point for me...they got their QB after they had built a team instead of the other way around.  And before everyone starts talking about the challenges of the SEC and no other QB did that before, they have barely had any competition as of yet (something like two ranked teams?) and Johnny Fartball did the same thing, if not better.  

(11-25-2019, 12:26 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Newton is hurt A LOT.

I agree, and he may have the body of a 50 year old man (I do, and it ain't easy...) but they also didn't do him a lot of favors with how much read-option he was doing where he was having to keep the ball.  I don't know how well he would fit our scheme, but I think he could be a big find if he gets some talent around him and has a change of scenery. 

He might not exactly be on the National Stage in Cincy, but with weapons like Mixon, Gio, Ross, Green, and Eifert....do you think he might at least consider it?  

Like I said before, I didn't really like the guy's whiny nature and find him hard to root for sometimes, but he is a freakish talent and I think someone could get a real bargain...and you know how we love bargains.  

(11-25-2019, 03:18 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The 49ers weren't in the same position we are. The closest they came to the #1 overall pick (before getting Jimmy G) was 2017, when they picked 3rd overall. The consensus top QB prospect was Mitch Trubisky, and he was off the board when the 49ers took Solomon Thomas. That's probably why the 49ers traded for Jimmy later that year. I'm guessing that if Trubisky were available to them, he'd be a 49er.


I don't think coach is a big deal. I think money is the problem. Our FO isn't willing to overpay at all, and sometimes you need to overpay a bit to get a good free agent's attention. They're certainly not coming here for the prestige of being a Bengal.


The o-line can be fixed in one off-season if we're serious about it. Jonah will be back. Throw in a couple of good signings and we'd be golden.

Watson was still on the board....I think they wanted to build their team through the draft and get a more proven commodity that had at least done it for a few games at the NFL level.  It must be nice to have an offensive coach that can say to himself:  He can make the throws I need him to make, and I know he will fit my system.  Our system sucks.  

I don't think it is money as much as where they spend it.  They will pay their players a nice second contract if they earn it.  The problem has been so many recent whiffs on the draft.  If you are only going to focus on building through the draft, you better be damn good at it.  They were for some time, and then they had a few really bad years (including last year).  

(11-26-2019, 08:13 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: You are kind of making the point for me...they got their QB after they had built a team instead of the other way around.  And before everyone starts talking about the challenges of the SEC and no other QB did that before, they have barely had any competition as of yet (something like two ranked teams?) and Johnny Fartball did the same thing, if not better.  

Building a team before getting a franchise QB is just as hard as building around one if not more difficult. 

Look at the Bears now. They have alot of great prices but are being held back by subpar QB play because that is the most important position. Right now they are good enough to win enough games to keep them out of Franchise QB quality in the draft without mortgaging their future over which they will lose quality players because they aren't a winning team.

Also comparing Johnny Manziel to Joe Burrow leads me to believe you haven't seen him play yet because they have alot different styles.

Using an experienced QB to span the gap between Andy, and the next franchise QB? I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

Using free agency to attain this experienced NFL QB? That might be a bridge too far, as far as Bengals management is concerned.

(11-26-2019, 08:53 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Using an experienced QB to span the gap between Andy, and the next franchise QB?  I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

Using free agency to attain this experienced NFL QB?  That might be a bridge too far, as far as Bengals management is concerned.

 
Guys like Cam and Mariota will be on the expensive side and will likely kill the chances of bringing in suitable replacements at other positions like OT and/or LB. 

(11-26-2019, 08:56 AM)Synric Wrote:  
Guys like Cam and Mariota will be on the expensive side and will likely kill the chances of bringing in suitable replacements at other positions like OT and/or LB. 

With all joking about the term "bridge" aside, there is really only one path that makes sense for the Bengals management.  Go ahead and draft Burrow, and actually do some spending on OL in free agency.  However, before any free agency and spending happens, they still need to replace Turner at OL coach, and sort out the play calling issues.  

(11-26-2019, 09:01 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: With all joking about the term "bridge" aside, there is really only one path that makes sense for the Bengals management.  Go ahead and draft Burrow, and actually do some spending on OL in free agency.  However, before any free agency and spending happens, they still need to replace Turner at OL coach, and sort out the play calling issues.  

Hopefully after the season is over ZT realizes the error in his decisions and fires some coaches and hires some real ones. Either let Callahan call the offense or hire someone else. Hire a DC with experience, replace Turner and so on.

(11-26-2019, 08:21 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Watson was still on the board....I think they wanted to build their team through the draft and get a more proven commodity that had at least done it for a few games at the NFL level.  It must be nice to have an offensive coach that can say to himself:  He can make the throws I need him to make, and I know he will fit my system.  Our system sucks.  

I don't think it is money as much as where they spend it.  They will pay their players a nice second contract if they earn it.  The problem has been so many recent whiffs on the draft.  If you are only going to focus on building through the draft, you better be damn good at it.  They were for some time, and then they had a few really bad years (including last year).  

So was Pat Mahomes. Some had their doubts about those guys, and that's why they slipped out of the top 10.

It's all speculation, but I'm looking at the fact that the consensus top QB prospect (at the time) was off the board. If he'd been there, it's hard to see the 49ers needing a QB that badly and passing, but maybe they would've?

Money was probably too simple a way to put it. I was talking specifically about cheapness in free agency. Mike isn't tight with his own players, but he isn't willing to spend the extra dollars he'd need to, to attract an external free agent. When we can't/won't use free agency to address a problem, that puts undue pressure on the draft as the sole source of solving roster issues.

We've failed a lot in the draft lately. A problem that gets magnified when we rely on it so extensively. Then (to add to your point about "where" we spend), we give silly contracts to guys like Gio and Hart, and refuse to cut dead weight like Cordy Glenn. We could easily afford to slightly overpay some actual good players...instead we're overpaying scrubs or guys we barely use.

It seems we carry some dead weight or dumb contracts every year. That's a huge problem, IMO, and it doesn't get talked about enough as a reason why we struggle.

(11-26-2019, 09:01 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: With all joking about the term "bridge" aside, there is really only one path that makes sense for the Bengals management.  Go ahead and draft Burrow, and actually do some spending on OL in free agency.  However, before any free agency and spending happens, they still need to replace Turner at OL coach, and sort out the play calling issues.  

Yes! Conklin, Scherff, and Hunter Henry.

But, I wonder if those guys would come here with Turner as the coach.

(11-26-2019, 09:21 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yes! Conklin, Scherff, and Hunter Henry.

But, I wonder if those guys would come here with Turner as the coach.

Which is why I included the caveat of changing OL coaches in my response.

(11-26-2019, 09:01 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: With all joking about the term "bridge" aside, there is really only one path that makes sense for the Bengals management.  Go ahead and draft Burrow, and actually do some spending on OL in free agency.  However, before any free agency and spending happens, they still need to replace Turner at OL coach, and sort out the play calling issues.  

Most definitely. I'd fire both coordinators and Jim Turner.

Bring in an experienced OC and let him run the show, as Taylor clearly bit off more than he can chew there.

Bring in an o-line coach with expertise in the type of run blocking we've been successful with.

Bengals will go QB in round 1. My fear is that Mike Brown will fall in love with strong arms like Herbert and take him. Herbert is a Mike Brown type of QB.

If Bengals go with Burrow then they need to add OL in this draft, at least 2 (LG and RT). Also, a lot will be riding that Jonah Williams is a keeper at LT, something I am not sure about. There are some very good guards and OT coming out in this draft. If they go Burrow then they should go all in on OL, pick a WR and maybe two backers.

They could start replenishing the DL/edge and secondary next year. I am just assuming they will not sign a blue chip day one FA type. Get that notion out of your head. It will not happen here.

(11-26-2019, 08:43 AM)Synric Wrote: Building a team before getting a franchise QB is just as hard as building around one if not more difficult. 

Look at the Bears now. They have alot of great prices but are being held back by subpar QB play because that is the most important position. Right now they are good enough to win enough games to keep them out of Franchise QB quality in the draft without mortgaging their future over which they will lose quality players because they aren't a winning team.

Also comparing Johnny Manziel to Joe Burrow leads me to believe you haven't seen him play yet because they have alot different styles.

Good example with the Bears...and it ALSO proves my point.  The Bears are believed to have a championship roster (especially the defense) but are being held back in the eyes of many by their QB. If, in fact, Mr Biscuit doesn't suddenly have a huge improvement in his play, they will be looking for another answer.  Those potential answers could include Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, Jameis Winston, or a draft pick.  Their window doesn't close if they go out and get a new QB.  

Manziel and Burrow do have different styles, but both put up outstanding numbers in the SEC, and that is where the comparison lies.  And, honestly, the defenses in the SEC seem down a bit this year.  I want to see how Burrow fares against OSU. 

(11-26-2019, 09:17 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: So was Pat Mahomes. Some had their doubts about those guys, and that's why they slipped out of the top 10.

It's all speculation, but I'm looking at the fact that the consensus top QB prospect (at the time) was off the board. If he'd been there, it's hard to see the 49ers needing a QB that badly and passing, but maybe they would've?

Money was probably too simple a way to put it. I was talking specifically about cheapness in free agency. Mike isn't tight with his own players, but he isn't willing to spend the extra dollars he'd need to, to attract an external free agent. When we can't/won't use free agency to address a problem, that puts undue pressure on the draft as the sole source of solving roster issues.

We've failed a lot in the draft lately. A problem that gets magnified when we rely on it so extensively. Then (to add to your point about "where" we spend), we give silly contracts to guys like Gio and Hart, and refuse to cut dead weight like Cordy Glenn. We could easily afford to slightly overpay some actual good players...instead we're overpaying scrubs or guys we barely use.

It seems we carry some dead weight or dumb contracts every year. That's a huge problem, IMO, and it doesn't get talked about enough as a reason why we struggle.

I know it is incredibly frustrating.  The draft, the turds acquired in FA (although at first, most seemed happy with the Glenn trade), and lack of production/utilization from a player like Gio.

If they want ANY people in the stands next year (and maybe they don't?  Maybe they do want to move the team?) they will have to nail the draft, and make some significant signings in FA.  Not a  single overpaid individual like OBJ, but a bunch of solid players in that 2nd tier.  

Now that Dalton is starting I can see them blowing the first overall pick, but maybe that is what I want deep down is that they get #2 overall and Miami takes Burrow leaving Chase Young to the Bengals?  My hope has been the Bengals would be #1 overall and trade a slot with Miami for one of their other 3 first round picks and get Young plus another first rounder.  They will likely blow that...

Young or Burrow, I won't be upset.  I just hope the team on the field looks much different than it does now.