(11-26-2019, 09:03 AM)Au165 Wrote: Hurts is a late day 2 early day 3 prospect. People wanting the next Lamar Jackson may drive him up, but he isn't that guy and will struggle to complete passes in tight windows and run in the pros.

Again, an evaluation goes way beyond that. Dalton was running the spread before a lot of the current NFL crop were but From is running an offense you will see every Sunday. Fromm is far more accurate in an offense that runs far less screens in a conference that is far superior, really the comparison is lazy and I'll admit I fell in to it before I started watching a lot of Fromm tape. 

Fromm will end up QB 3 when it's all said and done and go in the 1st round. 

I also have Jacob Eason as a late day 2 early 3 pick.

Eason has that arm that allows him to be late on throws and still gets it on time...but if you look at his stats they are closer to Jake Fromm even though he has the throw volume of Joe Burrow. 

That big arm gets him trouble as much as it helps. He has the issues like Cam Newton where he gets away from his mechanics using only his upper body and arm to throw. He also has very little touch throwing fast balls every single time. These tendencies make him struggle in that 10-20 yard range consistently sailing balls. These are fixable but it's very hard to teach touch.

His functional athleticism isn't coachable. He is not a guy that is going to make off schedule throws in fact under pressure hes going to likely be sacked...which is evident from his horrible rushing stats 37 attempts for -60 yards. Even Jake Fromm who isnt an athlete either has positive yards. In the NFL Eason will see ALOT more pressure than in the pac 12.

Right now I have QBs Ranked Burrow Fromm Herbert Gordon Love Hurts Eason with Tua as an injury exempt.

(11-26-2019, 11:11 AM)Synric Wrote: Right now I have QBs Ranked Burrow Fromm Herbert Gordon Love Hurts Eason with Tua as an injury exempt.

I probably would agree with that, but I'd swap Eason for Hurts if a gun was to my head. Watch for Flacco's brother Tom to be a senior bowl invite and could get some buzz sneaking him in to a late day 2 early 3 range. He gets some Taysum Hill comps and I think people are valuing that guy a lot right now. 

Also, Jamie Newman out of Wake is a guy I want to watch more on after the season. I think he could be the "WTF" pick in the early 2nd that no one heard of.

(11-26-2019, 10:58 AM)ochocincos Wrote: "Less than optimal" doesn't mean bad. From the games I've watched, he has enough arm to throw deep accurately and good enough mobility to extend the play and also gain some yards on the ground.

And people have to consider this: Is Burrow better than the QBs next year? I'd argue yes aside from maybe Trevor Lawrence (and Tua if he returns to college for another year). Before anyone says Justin Fields, Fields only has 2350 yards on the season in 11 games. Burrow has 4000 in the same number of games. Unless Fields takes another step like Burrow did this year, Fields isn't on the same level.

If the Bengals get Chase Young and actually upgrade the OL, there's a decent chance they don't get the 1st overall pick next year and miss out on the top QB prospect, so they should probably take advantage of such a high pick this year while they can. A good pass rusher can be found much easier in the draft.

I said all along last year Haskins needed another year. Now I think he needed two lol. I view Fields pretty much the same way, he needs another year. I like a lot of what I see out of him but I think he needs some work on his mechanics, he sails the ball high quite a bit.

And I totally agree with your last paragraph. As much as I'd love to have CY, if Burrow is there when they draft they have to pull the trigger even if he sits a year to fix Oline.

(11-26-2019, 01:00 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Haskins has all the talent in the world(something burrow dosent have) also burrow is a former buckeye so if my colors were showing then I would say he’s great.  Burrow dosent have a great arm, but his mental iq is very high. He’s also playing in the perfect system Tailored to fit him.
Really? So a qb won the eagles pats Super Bowl? And why did the giants win a super bow? Elite dline. Top teams in nfl all have elite dlines. Chase young would guarentee us 2 more possessions a game.

Burrows less than optimal physical traits worry me.

By "all the talent in the world" I am assuming you mean physical talent. Haskins is currently a great example as to why you can't solely focus on what the physical ability looks like. Haskins looks completely lost out there. Now that Finley isn't starting anymore, he is unquestionably the worst starting QB in the NFL. He has accuracy issues, he has issues with pressure and reading defenses. 

I have my questions about Burrow, but Burrow is easily the better QB prospect despite not being as physically gifted. 

(11-26-2019, 11:24 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: By "all the talent in the world" I am assuming you mean physical talent. Haskins is currently a great example as to why you can't solely focus on what the physical ability looks like. Haskins looks completely lost out there. Now that Finley isn't starting anymore, he is unquestionably the worst starting QB in the NFL. He has accuracy issues, he has issues with pressure and reading defenses. 

I have my questions about Burrow, but Burrow is easily the better QB prospect despite not being as physically gifted. 

Some QBs who aren't the most physically gifted in the world:
- Tom Brady
- Drew Brees
- Russell Wilson
- Dak Prescott
- Kirk Cousins

The first two are considered some of the best QBs in NFL history, and the other three are doing rather well too in their NFL careers to this point. You don't have to be the most physically gifted to succeed. The most important tool is intelligence. 

(11-26-2019, 11:50 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Some QBs who aren't the most physically gifted in the world:
- Tom Brady
- Drew Brees
- Russell Wilson
- Dak Prescott
- Kirk Cousins

The first two are considered some of the best QBs in NFL history, and the other three are doing rather well too in their NFL careers to this point. You don't have to be the most physically gifted to succeed. The most important tool is intelligence. 

Exactly. People forget that Peyton wasn't incredibly physically gifted as well. He had a good arm and could make all the throws but he didn't have a "cannon". He just had a good arm and was incredibly well-studied/intelligent. The mental aspect of his game is what really made him who he was. The most physically gifted QB in NFL history might very well be Jamarcus Russell. He had a pure howitzer of an arm. He could make any single throw from any angle and he could have probably invented some new throws. He was lazy and didn't really have a grasp on the mental aspect of the game, so he failed. 

Brady, as you mentioned, is the probably the perfect example. Average arm, not athletic and just dominates. 

(11-24-2019, 01:11 AM)Jpoore Wrote: I see franchise qbs. Yes. If I’m picking #1 overall I want that Peyton Manning, Andrew luck, can newton, the bonafide got it all type of players. There isn’t one here besides tua imo and he’s got massive injury issues. Herbert way to inconsistent, and burrow has everything mentally but he’s better than the sum of his parts.. but see my point is I see fromm as a franchise level qb as well. And he’s gonna fall much farther. Or u get a absolute stud at lber to pair with young. And get qb next year. It all depends. It’s a lot of guessing right now.

Hey, remember when you wrote Mahomes was a fourth round pick . . . at best? Kyler Murray won’t go in the first round? Lamar Jackson is a less athletic Braxton Miller? And Mason Rudolph was your favorite QB from the 2018 draft? Anyway . . .

I live in Georgia and watch most of the UGA games and Burrows is better than Fromm. Even the AJC thinks Fromm would be better served spending another year in school.

(11-26-2019, 10:58 AM)ochocincos Wrote: "Less than optimal" doesn't mean bad. From the games I've watched, he has enough arm to throw deep accurately and good enough mobility to extend the play and also gain some yards on the ground.

And people have to consider this: Is Burrow better than the QBs next year? I'd argue yes aside from maybe Trevor Lawrence (and Tua if he returns to college for another year). Before anyone says Justin Fields, Fields only has 2350 yards on the season in 11 games. Burrow has 4000 in the same number of games. Unless Fields takes another step like Burrow did this year, Fields isn't on the same level.

If the Bengals get Chase Young and actually upgrade the OL, there's a decent chance they don't get the 1st overall pick next year and miss out on the top QB prospect, so they should probably take advantage of such a high pick this year while they can. A good pass rusher can be found much easier in the draft.

Fields is clearly qb2 and is making a legitimate push for qb1 with lawrence next year. Osu has been pulling him ASAP bc we lost burrow and martell and have no depth at qb. Starting rn has only had like 42 2nd half snaps for same reason. A good pass rusher can. But can a all world actual generational pass rusher be found?

(11-26-2019, 11:15 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I said all along last year Haskins needed another year. Now I think he needed two lol. I view Fields pretty much the same way, he needs another year. I like a lot of what I see out of him but I think he needs some work on his mechanics, he sails the ball high quite a bit.

And I totally agree with your last paragraph. As much as I'd love to have CY, if Burrow is there when they draft they have to pull the trigger even if he sits a year to fix Oline.

Fields is a a true sophomore and can’t come out till
Next year,

(11-27-2019, 06:16 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Fields is clearly qb2 and is making a legitimate push for qb1 with lawrence next  year. Osu has been pulling him ASAP bc we lost burrow and martell and have no depth at qb. Starting rn has only had like 42 2nd half snaps for same reason. A good pass rusher can. But can a all world actual generational pass rusher be found?

Fields is a a true sophomore and can’t come out till
Next year,

I wasn't talking about Fields being QB2 next year. I was talking about how Burrow stacks against next year's QBs (mainly Lawrence and Fields).

And I don't think an "all-world actual generational pass rusher" matters as much as a really good QB.
I look at the Texans as a good example.
Watt is arguably the best pass rusher in the league right now over the course of 5 years.
Prior to Watson taking over as full-time starting QB, the best that team was getting to was 9-7.
With Watson at the helm, the Texans have gone 21-12 (63.6% winning percentage).
That's the difference between maybe making the playoffs as a wildcard vs being a perennial division winner.
I'd happily take a good-not-great pass rusher instead of a generational pass rusher if it meant I could get a really good QB instead of just an ok one.

(11-27-2019, 01:37 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I wasn't talking about Fields being QB2 next year. I was talking about how Burrow stacks against next year's QBs (mainly Lawrence and Fields).

And I don't think an "all-world actual generational pass rusher" matters as much as a really good QB.
I look at the Texans as a good example.
Watt is arguably the best pass rusher in the league right now over the course of 5 years.
Prior to Watson taking over as full-time starting QB, the best that team was getting to was 9-7.
With Watson at the helm, the Texans have gone 21-12 (63.6% winning percentage).
That's the difference between maybe making the playoffs as a wildcard vs being a perennial division winner.
I'd happily take a good-not-great pass rusher instead of a generational pass rusher if it meant I could get a really good QB instead of just an ok one.

Where are u getting 21-12? He went 22-22 if my math is right.

(11-27-2019, 06:28 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Where are u getting 21-12? He went 22-22 if my math is right.

It's probably just the games Watson has actually started. They lost a lot of games the year he got hurt and he was forced to miss.

(11-27-2019, 06:28 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Where are u getting 21-12? He went 22-22 if my math is right.

(11-27-2019, 06:45 PM)blt4584 Wrote: It's probably just the games Watson has actually started. They lost a lot of games the year he got hurt and he was forced to miss.

21-13, minus the playoff loss. 

(11-27-2019, 06:28 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Where are u getting 21-12? He went 22-22 if my math is right.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatsDe00.htm

You clearly did your math wrong. 21-12. Stated right there in the stats bro.

(11-27-2019, 08:21 PM)ochocincos Wrote: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatsDe00.htm

You clearly did your math wrong. 21-12. Stated right there in the stats bro.

I was counting the overall record since he was drafted not just the games he played in. I was counting the games where he missed due to injury too.

(11-27-2019, 09:46 PM)Jpoore Wrote: I was counting the overall record since he was drafted not just the games he played in. I was counting the games where he missed due to injury too.

Including the games he didn’t play in makes sense.

Michigan has done a good job in the first half derailing the Chase Young hype train. Patterson is picking them apart due to the lack of a pass rush.

(11-30-2019, 04:02 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Michigan has done a good job in the first half derailing the Chase Young hype train. Patterson is picking them apart due to the lack of a pass rush.

Shea Patterson and the Michigan Offense is a vertical passing team that's something Ohio State hasn't seen much of this year in the Big Ten. 

Clemson is my pick for National Champion. LSU and Joe Burrow would make a good showing but their defense is gonna struggle against Clemson and Ohio States run game.

He didnt do shit today. I'm leaning towards Burrow now

I've been pretty firm in my position that the Bengals should go with Burrow, over Chase Young in the draft, and I still stand on that position. However, any fans who claim the position of "Chase Young didn't do jack shit versus Michigan, so I'm for Burrow now", can all just suck ass fumes. Young played one hell of a game, yet he didn't show up on the stat sheet. He commanded extra attention all day long, Michigan had to plan specifically around him, in order to have what little success they did.

Now, to the bigger picture. Chase Young is just one player, on one of the best defenses in all of college football. Yes, he's a bonafide star, he's worth taking in the top 5. However, he won't "save the Bengals", by himself. Joe Burrow is still the best pick for the Bengals to build around.

(11-30-2019, 06:35 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I've been pretty firm in my position that the Bengals should go with Burrow, over Chase Young in the draft, and I still stand on that position. However, any fans who claim the position of "Chase Young didn't do jack shit versus Michigan, so I'm for Burrow now", can all just suck ass fumes. Young played one hell of a game, yet he didn't show up on the stat sheet. He commanded extra attention all day long, Michigan had to plan specifically around him, in order to have what little success they did.

Now, to the bigger picture. Chase Young is just one player, on one of the best defenses in all of college football. Yes, he's a bonafide star, he's worth taking in the top 5. However, he won't "save the Bengals", by himself. Joe Burrow is still the best pick for the Bengals to build around.

Michigan used combo blocks with the OG and the OT or they used the RB to chip. But, he also had plenty of one on one matchups with a OG or OT. I expect a player they “screams once in a generation” player to win one of those opportunities. Especially when Michigan was down and needed to pass to come back from behind.