That's all

I'm not really a Reds fan...but I wouldn't consider them a successful franchise.

I'm a Dodgers fan...and it seems the Reds took several of our underachievers last year. (Yeah Wood is decent IF you have the Dodgers hitting and fielding). And Puig had overstayed his welcome there.

I guess you like that they spend and make moves?

Moustakis is a decent move.

Yeah!  Reds actually finished higher than 4th place 7 years ago!!!!  That was one of three winning seasons in 13 since Castellini took over.

Woot! Woot!

(12-06-2019, 10:59 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Yeah!  Reds actually finished higher than 4th place 7 years ago!!!!  That was one of three winning seasons in 13 since Castellini took over.

Woot! Woot!

Fred, Fred, Fred...At least he tries and puts money into a truly "small market" team....This recent signing is equal to the last 30 FA signings for the Bengals.....   Castellini wants to win and puts "his" money into trying to do so....MB will not even spend the NFL money and try

There are pros and cons to how the Reds operate (and MLB in general for that matter).
Yes, the Reds are more willing to go get guys in FA that are outside the organization. That brings more excitement to the (start of the) season than a typical Bengals offseason in regards to FA.
However, the Reds have statistically been worse than the Bengals over the past decade, and both franchises have no postseason advancement in this millenium.
Also, the Reds don't have to operate within a salary cap whereas the Bengals do.
The Bengals have had more consistent years whereas the Reds have had more up and down years.
Last, the Reds' bad farm system is what caused them to have to go out and "get the pitching" and also go get guys like Puig and Moustakas. Their home-grown talent has had some good players but not great talent to avoid using FA.
Senzel, Winker, Barnhart, and Ervin have all had their moments but none are great (yet). Aquino might turn into an elite OF but he's not even played a full season yet. Suarez and Castillo have developed into stars but they were trades. They weren't drafted by the Reds.

So basically what this boils down to is hope. When the Reds bring in some outside talent, it brings more optimism than a typical Bengals offseason. That may draw interest at the beginning of a season but winning keeps the interest through the whole season.

The Reds suck just as much as the Bengals. The only team in Cincinnati that gets my money is the Cyclones. Those guys make peanuts, yet they play their hearts out, and usually ice a pretty good team every year.

(12-06-2019, 11:37 AM)ochocincos Wrote: There are pros and cons to how the Reds operate (and MLB in general for that matter).
Yes, the Reds are more willing to go get guys in FA that are outside the organization. That brings more excitement to the (start of the) season than a typical Bengals offseason in regards to FA.
However, the Reds have statistically been worse than the Bengals over the past decade, and both franchises have no postseason advancement in this millenium.
Also, the Reds don't have to operate within a salary cap whereas the Bengals do.
The Bengals have had more consistent years whereas the Reds have had more up and down years.
Last, the Reds' bad farm system is what caused them to have to go out and "get the pitching" and also go get guys like Puig and Moustakas. Their home-grown talent has had some good players but not great talent to avoid using FA.
Senzel, Winker, Barnhart, and Ervin have all had their moments but none are great (yet). Aquino might turn into an elite OF but he's not even played a full season yet. Suarez and Castillo have developed into stars but they were trades. They weren't drafted by the Reds.

So basically what this boils down to is hope. When the Reds bring in some outside talent, it brings more optimism than a typical Bengals offseason. That may draw interest at the beginning of a season but winning keeps the interest through the whole season.

Yes, well...

I’d still take Castellini over the ignorant, elitist Brown family.

(12-06-2019, 11:07 AM)spazz70 Wrote: Fred, Fred, Fred...At least he tries and puts money into a truly "small market" team....This recent signing is equal to the last 30 FA signings for the Bengals.....   Castellini wants to win and puts "his" money into trying to do so....MB will not even spend the NFL money and try

Mike Brown does spend money.  He does try.  

Over the last 15 years the Bengals are in the top half of the league in wins and top 10 in playoff seasons.  To claim he accomplished that without trying is absurd.  

And I prefer having a winning season over "hope".

(12-06-2019, 11:07 AM)spazz70 Wrote: Fred, Fred, Fred...At least he tries and puts money into a truly "small market" team....This recent signing is equal to the last 30 FA signings for the Bengals.....   Castellini wants to win and puts "his" money into trying to do so....MB will not even spend the NFL money and try

So overpaying 1 C Tier free agent signing makes up for 13 years of ineptness? Your bar is low. Moustakis is a career .252 hitter. You just recognize his name. He batted .254 last year. I doubt this guy makes them a World Series contender.

Note: IF the Bengals go out and sign 1 C tier free agent...don't be expecting a Super Bowl.

Yes - The Reds paid 4 years and $64 million for a .252 hitter.

(12-06-2019, 12:28 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So overpaying 1 C Tier free agent signing makes up for 13 years of ineptness? Your bar is low. Moustakis is a career .252 hitter. You just recognize his name. He batted .254 last year. I doubt this guy makes them a World Series contender.

Note: IF the Bengals go out and sign 1 C tier free agent...don't be expecting a Super Bowl.

Yes - The Reds paid 4 years and $64 million for a .252 hitter.

It's hard to imagine how people could rip Marvin for being behind with the times when people are still quoting batting average!

What's his OPS+?

(12-06-2019, 10:48 AM)spazz70 Wrote: That's all

Why so he can juggle 2 pathetic losers?

(12-06-2019, 11:37 AM)ochocincos Wrote: There are pros and cons to how the Reds operate (and MLB in general for that matter).
Yes, the Reds are more willing to go get guys in FA that are outside the organization. That brings more excitement to the (start of the) season than a typical Bengals offseason in regards to FA.
However, the Reds have statistically been worse than the Bengals over the past decade, and both franchises have no postseason advancement in this millenium.
Also, the Reds don't have to operate within a salary cap whereas the Bengals do.
The Bengals have had more consistent years whereas the Reds have had more up and down years.
Last, the Reds' bad farm system is what caused them to have to go out and "get the pitching" and also go get guys like Puig and Moustakas. Their home-grown talent has had some good players but not great talent to avoid using FA.
Senzel, Winker, Barnhart, and Ervin have all had their moments but none are great (yet). Aquino might turn into an elite OF but he's not even played a full season yet. Suarez and Castillo have developed into stars but they were trades. They weren't drafted by the Reds.

So basically what this boils down to is hope. When the Reds bring in some outside talent, it brings more optimism than a typical Bengals offseason. That may draw interest at the beginning of a season but winning keeps the interest through the whole season.

Mike Brown wouldn't spend any more money even if there weren't a salary cap. At least the NFL has a minimum cap in place for owners like Mike Brown. Of course, Mike Brown spends it on Hart, Web and Bernard. Sadly, the NFL doesn't have any rules about getting commensurate quality for the size of the contract given out.

 

(12-06-2019, 11:37 AM)ochocincos Wrote: There are pros and cons to how the Reds operate (and MLB in general for that matter).
Yes, the Reds are more willing to go get guys in FA that are outside the organization. That brings more excitement to the (start of the) season than a typical Bengals offseason in regards to FA.
However, the Reds have statistically been worse than the Bengals over the past decade, and both franchises have no postseason advancement in this millenium.
Also, the Reds don't have to operate within a salary cap whereas the Bengals do.
The Bengals have had more consistent years whereas the Reds have had more up and down years.
Last, the Reds' bad farm system is what caused them to have to go out and "get the pitching" and also go get guys like Puig and Moustakas. Their home-grown talent has had some good players but not great talent to avoid using FA.
Senzel, Winker, Barnhart, and Ervin have all had their moments but none are great (yet). Aquino might turn into an elite OF but he's not even played a full season yet. Suarez and Castillo have developed into stars but they were trades. They weren't drafted by the Reds.

So basically what this boils down to is hope. When the Reds bring in some outside talent, it brings more optimism than a typical Bengals offseason. That may draw interest at the beginning of a season but winning keeps the interest through the whole season.

Very good points..... First off, yep, no salary cap....IMHO the Bengals knew that had to spend money this off season according to the 2011 salary cap CBA guidelines thus the reason for the Hart contract and the GIO contract...they had to spend the money this year!!.....they did not go out and sign one FA that was available/good/average/worth a crap.

Small market teams always have "their year" that is how it is set up...Just like in the NCAAB tourney...a mid major in the final four and such....That is what they have to do....put a team together over a few years and make a run at it for one or two years.

I'd prefer Ohio native Eddie DeBartalo

I hate these kinda threads.

The Brown family will never sale the Bengals. The team is the Brown family business most of them work for the team not just receive profits. The Bengals will never leave Cincinnati because the Brown family has invested way to much into the area they are a big fish in a small pond. The team doesn't make nearly enough to move the team and reinvest in a new city. Everyone believes the Bengals and Brown family make hundreds of millions a year profit but the number is actually closer to 20 and alot of that is reinvested into the team.


Edit: Also the Bengals would be a bad invest at this time due to shrinking market, low profits, and high operating costs.

(12-06-2019, 11:50 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Mike Brown does spend money.  He does try.  

Over the last 15 years the Bengals are in the top half of the league in wins and top 10 in playoff seasons.  To claim he accomplished that without trying is absurd.  

And I prefer having a winning season over "hope".

Regarding my original post and reply......When has Mike Brown spent/brought in/signed a top FA in the last 15 years?  i am not arguing about winning and losing...The NFL is controlled with the money and the contracts compared to MLB....  Think of all of those playoff games with just one or two more really talented players on the team.

(12-06-2019, 01:08 PM)spazz70 Wrote: Very good points..... First off, yep, no salary cap....IMHO the Bengals knew that had to spend money this off season according to the 2011 salary cap CBA guidelines thus the reason for the Hart contract and the GIO contract...they had to spend the money this year!!.....they did not go out and sign one FA that was available/good/average/worth a crap.

Small market teams always have "their year" that is how it is set up...Just like in the NCAAB tourney...a mid major in the final four and such....That is what they have to do....put a team together over a few years and make a run at it for one or two years.

I seriously think they are just bad at what they do. They thought a new staff would come in and coach up a young guy like Hart. They overvalue Bernard...but the main reason they kept Bernard was probably due to seeing Elliott and Gordon holdout and fearing Mixon would do that.

Just terrible decisions.

And the times in the past they did sign free agents like Barry Foster and Antonio Bryant...it was so badly botched that they now fear spending on outside free agents.

But, they keep bring back Eifert and pay AJ Green huge salary to not play. So your own guys can easily be injured.

(12-06-2019, 11:50 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Mike Brown does spend money.  He does try.  

Over the last 15 years the Bengals are in the top half of the league in wins and top 10 in playoff seasons.  To claim he accomplished that without trying is absurd.  

And I prefer having a winning season over "hope".

Ah, those fragile, halcyon years when the Cincinnati Bengals and Pittsburgh Pirates were actually stringing winning/playoff seasons together.  

(12-06-2019, 01:22 PM)spazz70 Wrote: When has Mike Brown spent/brought in/signed a top FA in the last 15 years?  i am not arguing about winning and losing.

The fact that you disagree with the way Mike Brown is trying to win does not mean he is not trying.

I also disagree with many of the decisions the Bengals make, but that does not mean they are not trying.  In both '15 and '16 the Bengals spent OVER the league salary cap for players.

I still say it is absurd to claim we have outperformed half of the teams in the league over the last 15 years without even trying.

This franchise will NEVER be sold! That family knows they have a golden goose, as long as the NFL keeps their shared revenue policy.
They don't even have to try. They keep getting theirs no matter what kind of product they produce.