I feel like Jackson hasn’t lived up to expectations. At one point it looked liked Jackson had all the tools to be a very good number one corner and would be worth a big extension as one of the few talented young players we have to build around. With so many needs on this team we might have to add corner to the list. Kirkpatrick is aging , B.W. is awful and Dennard is a free agent. With all are recent miscues in the 1st round it would be another blow if Jackson doesn’t work out.

I feel like I havent heard much from him this year - which is a good thing and a bad thing. Good thing in a way that it means he isn't screwing up or giving up big plays. Bad thing in it means that he isn't changing the game and being a super impactful player.

I think WJ is a good corner - not great.

It's shocking how poor the ball skills of Bengals CBs are.

3 INT in 2019 (2 by Phillips)
0 INT in 2018

A lot of not playing the ball, and a LOT of dropping the ball when it hits their hands.

William Jackson: 2 INT in 4 years
Dre Kirkpatrick: 10 INT in 8 years
Darqueze Dennard: 3 INT in 6 years
- - - - - - -
Leon Hall: 26 INT in 9 years as a Bengal
Jonathan Joseph: 14 INT in 5 years as a Bengal

How crazy is it to think that Jackson, Kirkpatrick, and Dennard have combined for 18 seasons, and only have 1 more INT than Jonathan Joseph did in his 5 year career as a Bengal? Joseph came into the league with stone hands, too, is the crazy thing. Granted I have always maintained that Dennard should have been a safety. He has near zero ball skills but is a decent tackler. Marvin was all "best rookie CB I have ever seen", but dude has never had more than 6 passes defensed in a single season.

(12-23-2019, 01:17 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: It's shocking how poor the ball skills of Bengals CBs are.

3 INT in 2019 (2 by Phillips)
0 INT in 2018

A lot of not playing the ball, and a LOT of dropping the ball when it hits their hands.

William Jackson: 2 INT in 4 years
Dre Kirkpatrick: 10 INT in 8 years
Darqueze Dennard: 3 INT in 6 years
- - - - - - -
Leon Hall: 26 INT in 9 years as a Bengal
Jonathan Joseph: 14 INT in 5 years as a Bengal

How crazy is it to think that Jackson, Kirkpatrick, and Dennard have combined for 18 seasons, and only have 1 more INT than Jonathan Joseph did in his 5 year career as a Bengal? Joseph came into the league with stone hands, too, is the crazy thing. Granted I have always maintained that Dennard should have been a safety. He has near zero ball skills but is a decent tackler. Marvin was all "best rookie CB I have ever seen", but dude has never had more than 6 passes defensed in a single season.

Well with so many holes in their starting roster for highly valued positions, I'd list QB, 2 CB's, 2 tackles, TE, the Bengals don't have to argue whether to draft for need or talent.  The talent will fill a need.  Outside of the highly valued starting positions they have needs for starters on the interior Oline, all linebackers, safeties.  Definitely this draft for the Bengals, practically any talent on the board fills a hurting need.

So should be an easy draft for the Bengals, can't screw it up right?

When watching Jackson this year I get the feeling he has been playing through a lot of injuries. I don't think he has ever been the healthiest of prospects, and that has made him worse since getting to the Bengals.

He looked like DreK out there yesterday... take that for what you will....

(12-23-2019, 01:17 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: It's shocking how poor the ball skills of Bengals CBs are.

3 INT in 2019 (2 by Phillips)
0 INT in 2018

A lot of not playing the ball, and a LOT of dropping the ball when it hits their hands.

William Jackson: 2 INT in 4 years
Dre Kirkpatrick: 10 INT in 8 years
Darqueze Dennard: 3 INT in 6 years
- - - - - - -
Leon Hall: 26 INT in 9 years as a Bengal
Jonathan Joseph: 14 INT in 5 years as a Bengal

How crazy is it to think that Jackson, Kirkpatrick, and Dennard have combined for 18 seasons, and only have 1 more INT than Jonathan Joseph did in his 5 year career as a Bengal? Joseph came into the league with stone hands, too, is the crazy thing. Granted I have always maintained that Dennard should have been a safety. He has near zero ball skills but is a decent tackler. Marvin was all "best rookie CB I have ever seen", but dude has never had more than 6 passes defensed in a single season.

This is certainly frustrating.  Lots of passes hit the Bengals' secondary right in the hands in 2018 and 2019 and bounced off.  You know what's sick?  Deltha O'Neal had SIXTEEN interceptions in FOUR years as a Bengal and Tory James had TWENTY-ONE interceptions in FIVE years as a Bengal.

(12-23-2019, 01:46 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: When watching Jackson this year I get the feeling he has been playing through a lot of injuries. I don't think he has ever been the healthiest of prospects, and that has made him worse since getting to the Bengals.

He looked like DreK out there yesterday... take that for what you will....

I often wonder if that is the case with a lot of them. Carlos kind of was quiet in the middle of the season, then came back with a vengeance, and said the other day he was just getting over a knee injury. We know Vigil played all last season on a bum ankle. Price supposedly has back issues. I suspect a lot of players that drop off unexpectedly are playing through injuries we don't know anything about. 

(12-23-2019, 01:47 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: This is certainly frustrating.  Lots of passes hit the Bengals' secondary right in the hands in 2018 and 2019 and bounced off.  You know what's sick?  Deltha O'Neal had SIXTEEN interceptions in FOUR years as a Bengal and Tory James had TWENTY-ONE interceptions in FIVE years as a Bengal.

We could use a little Deltha and Tory magic. They kept us in games. We couldnt stop the run back then to save our lives, but those dudes were ballhawks.

(12-23-2019, 01:59 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I often wonder if that is the case with a lot of them. Carlos kind of was quiet in the middle of the season, then came back with a vengeance, and said the other day he was just getting over a knee injury. We know Vigil played all last season on a bum ankle. Price supposedly has back issues. I suspect a lot of players that drop off unexpectedly are playing through injuries we don't know anything about. 

There have been a few games where it looks like WJ3's arm goes limp, he steps out a play, then comes back. Also noticed he always has his hands in fists instead of trying to grab the ball/jersey...

Something has definitely been up with him from what I've seen.

William Jackson has bummed me out but I think he is still in play to be a good corner in this league imo we have to resign Dennard he’s played real well imo bw Webb is curbside trash I say we draft Lamar Jackson from Nebraska in the later rounds he is good and I want em here.

(12-23-2019, 01:59 PM)bengaloo Wrote: We could use a little Deltha and Tory magic. They kept us in games. We couldnt stop the run back then to save our lives, but those dudes were ballhawks.

Deltha is currently awaiting trial for a felony DUI accident which caused serious injuries to his passenger and him.  

Jackson may also be affected more than other players by his 4th DC in his 3 year career

(12-23-2019, 02:09 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: There have been a few games where it looks like WJ3's arm goes limp, he steps out a play, then comes back. Also noticed he always has his hands in fists instead of trying to grab the ball/jersey...

Something has definitely been up with him from what I've seen.

Yeah.  Didn't he play through a broken wrist or a broken hand or something last year?  I'm wondering if it just isn't healing right.  Hopefully it heals - WJ3 is a very good man cover corner and has developed as a tackler.  If he could just round out his zone and ball tracking awareness, he'd be an extremely good corner.  

When one player seems to drop off look at the player.

When every player starts to drop off then look at the coaching.

Jackson is a damn good CB. Kirkpatrick is better than most people give him credit for. Bates can be a good safety. Dennard has not lived up to his first round status, but he is not bad.

Jackson missed a preseason game with an injury and then missed the second half of the Ravens game (week 6) and the next game against the Jags with a shoulder injury. Kirkpatrick was lost for the year in that same Ravens game, and Dennard missed the first 6 games recovering from a knee surgery. Injuries have obviously been a big part of the problem, but I still see coaching as a major issue. Most of the big pass plays seem to be the result of "blown coverage" more than players just getting smoked one-on-one.

(12-23-2019, 02:15 PM)pally Wrote: Deltha is currently awaiting trial for a felony DUI accident which caused serious injuries to his passenger and him.  

Jackson may also be affected more than other players by his 4th DC in his 3 year career

Thats sucks for him! Like that guy, but glad he didnt do that while he was here. Especially back then when we were the Cinci felons.

WJIII will make about $1 Mil less than Stephon Gilmore next year and he has 0 dead cap. I like WJIII but I'd have no issue with cutting him a signing someone cheaper. Hell I might rather keep DD.

(12-23-2019, 01:05 PM)lone bengal Wrote: I feel like Jackson hasn’t lived up to expectations. At one point it looked liked Jackson had all the tools to be a very good number one corner and would be worth a big extension as one of the few talented young players we have to build around. With so many needs on this team we might have to add corner to the list. Kirkpatrick is aging , B.W. is awful and Dennard is a free agent. With all are recent miscues in the 1st round it would be another blow if Jackson doesn’t work out.

weird considering our last 2 DC's were DB coaches....

(12-23-2019, 02:15 PM)pally Wrote: Deltha is currently awaiting trial for a felony DUI accident which caused serious injuries to his passenger and him.  

Jackson may also be affected more than other players by his 4th DC in his 3 year career

was that breshanan or Frasier? as DC then?

(12-23-2019, 02:15 PM)pally Wrote: Deltha is currently awaiting trial for a felony DUI accident which caused serious injuries to his passenger and him.  

Jackson may also be affected more than other players by his 4th DC in his 3 year career

Bolded has no bearing on his performance as a football player for the Bengals.

The other sentence might have some substance to it.

Poor scheming and coaching in the secondary contributes a lot to the problems. Let’s remember that Zimmer got really good secondary play out of similar players by tailoring his scheme to what they did well. He knew his players were much better in press man than in zone (especially the awful soft zones we seem to love) so he had a lot of man looks and fewer zone looks.

And we are still trying to play soft zones with players who are obviously better in man coverage.

It looked like Jackson watched guys catch the ball on several plays without really trying to make a play on the ball. Like he couldn’t find it or something. One was in a deep ball and two more near the sidelines.