(12-26-2019, 05:59 PM)J24 Wrote: Its more likely that Burrow has a rough game Saturday than a Heisman like game Saturday. I say that because most Heisman winners tend to struggle in their bowl games then not. To me  Burrow aced then test and this is the extra credit session.
For me the only question the Bengals have if they didn't draft Burrow is 1.) How much can we get for the pick? And 2.) Is there another QB we love that we can get later in the draft?

Maybe let's not just make stuff up, out of thin air?  According to what I was reading, it looks like about 2/3 of Heisman winners go on to do quite well in their Bowl Game performances. (at least from the past 17 years that this article covers)

https://www.boydsbets.com/heisman-winners-performance-bowl-games/

(12-26-2019, 05:59 PM)J24 Wrote: Its more likely that Burrow has a rough game Saturday than a Heisman like game Saturday. I say that because most Heisman winners tend to struggle in their bowl games then not. To me  Burrow aced then test and this is the extra credit session.
For me the only question the Bengals have if they didn't draft Burrow is 1.) How much can we get for the pick? And 2.) Is there another QB we love that we can get later in the draft?

I am by no means a burrow supporter, but if he doesnt light up oklahoma then that is a really bad sign, every team has been lighting up their d for most of the season.  Everybody has already counted out tua because of the media, but trust me if his medicals check out hes going to go top 5 at worst.  Most likely top 3.  Also there isnt much truth to the heisman winners not playing well.  Thats just plain out false and not sure where you are getting that from.

(12-26-2019, 10:21 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Akili had a better first season wins than Zac Taylor.

Maybe they should have scouted his ass better(such as his OC record)and not been so caught up in his " incredible football mind" riding McVay's coattails.

The braintrust can’t be expected to do much. In any other business they would have been forced to sell or went bankrupt decades ago. Sadly, Mike and the family lucked into the one business they couldn’t possibly destroy no matter how hard they tried. For a team that uses a build through the draft philosophy, having the league’s smallest scouting department is embarrassing. High school programs in Texas have more scouts than the Bengals.

(12-26-2019, 10:36 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Maybe let's not just make stuff up, out of thin air?  According to what I was reading, it looks like about 2/3 of Heisman winners go on to do quite well in their Bowl Game performances. (at least from the past 17 years that this article covers)

https://www.boydsbets.com/heisman-winners-performance-bowl-games/

8 out of 17 lost there bowl games yeah that's awesome!

(12-26-2019, 11:59 PM)mikey6866 Wrote: I am by no means a burrow supporter, but if he doesnt light up oklahoma then that is a really bad sign, every team has been lighting up their d for most of the season.  Everybody has already counted out tua because of the media, but trust me if his medicals check out hes going to go top 5 at worst.  Most likely top 3.  Also there isnt much truth to the heisman winners not playing well.  Thats just plain out false and not sure where you are getting that from.

Oklahoma defense has been better this season.

The idea some have that the Bengals have no scouts so they can't scout, and then some add that Bowl Games mean nothing. That is not acceptable. Every other NFL team has scouts and they do scout the Bowl Games. If the Bengals don't scout these players, then it makes no difference where they pick on the draft.

Lets not just look at pick #1. How about pick #33. Pick #65. Pick #97. The Bengals pick #1 in all the rounds. They should get the best player in all the rounds, but that will take scouting. The Bengals get 4 of the first 100 players. They need to get it RIGHT on all 4.

I'm tired of hearing this team has no scouts or can't scout. Since Paul Brown this team has always been about The Draft, and for that you need scouts. This team under Mike Brown went as cheap as to listen to a Cincinnati drugstore guy, and just what in the hell did he know from inside his drugstore. They might as well have been asking a guy at White Castle or Skyline. I'm tired of hearing the lousy excuse that this team can't be expected to scout. Every other team does.

I also add that Burrow and others are not done. That these Bowl games are not just another game. Joe Montana winning the Cotton Bowl with a 2 minute drill drive showed he was better than Jack Thompson. Every other NFL team scouts these Bowl Games and if Bengals are too CHEAP too then they deserve 15 losses every year. You don't go into draft in April and pick names out of a hat. You don't go on just the Combine either. The Combine is track and field, not football. The Combine would be great if you are building a track team.

Bengals are only team since 1991 with no play-off wins and also the team since 1991 with most 0-4 starts. If they are also the only team that refuses to scout, then I say the no scouts and the losing are connected. This team WILL NOT WIN until it gets out of local drugstores and actually Scouts as every other NFL team does.

Having the #1 pick is a big waste of time if Mike Brown is too cheap or too stupid to scout Bowl Games and Players.

It is also stupid to compare the Bowl Games to the Bengals Jets game. You want to see if players step up in the Big Games as Joe Montana did, as Dan Marino did. The Bengals never ever never ever win Big Games, never ever. These Bowl Games are a chance to see who CAN win Big Games. Jim Plunkett beating Ohio State in the Rose Bowl, I was not surprised years later as he won Super Bowls. The Combine is a track and field contest, but the Bowl Games are FOOTBALL. You know who looked good in his Bowl Game was Jeff Blake who the Bengals had as 3rd string and only played him due to injuries, and they discovered this Bowl Game star was the best QB on the team. Another Bowl Game star was Jerome Bettis, who beat the heck out of Bengals for Steelers. ....Bengals could learn a LOT from scouting Bowl Games, and I don't mean the Senior Bowl. Anthony Munoz had a GREAT Bowl Game as he blocked USC to Rose Bowl win over Ohio State.

(12-26-2019, 03:59 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The OP is absolutely right — and the scouts need to keep an open mind. In the playoffs it is possible either Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields could outplay the other prospects. If that’s the case then it might be judicious to wait until 2021 to get a quarterback.

So you want the team to be monumentally bad two years in a row? Because that is what it is going to take. You take the QB when you can. Waiting for next year often means settling when you can’t get your guy.

Zac and team will be coaching the Senior Bowl. That is a week of hands on with much of the draft class

(12-27-2019, 04:24 AM)pally Wrote: So you want the team to be monumentally bad two years in a row?  Because that is what it is going to take.  You take the QB when you can.  Waiting for next year often means settling when you can’t get your guy.  

Zac and team will be coaching the Senior Bowl.  That is a week of hands on with much of the draft class

The Senior Bowl is NOT enough.  The Bowl games going on into New Years and beyond showcase more players.  Myself, I think the Senior Bowl is like the Pro Bowl in that you can NOT put a team together in one week of practice.  You can have a baseball All-Star game, maybe a basketball, but a football all-star game is stupid because it takes months of practice of a playbook to put a team together.  Football is a Team sport.  The Senior Bowl, Hula Bowl and Shrine Bowl are awful ways to judge these players, and many good players no longer play in them to avoid injury.   They do not come close to the well coached teams in the Holiday Bowl Games.  The NFL Pro Bowl should have been stopped decades ago as the College All-Stars vs The NFL Champions Game was stopped and Paul Brown lead the charge in stopping that stupid game.

The Bengals will be at the Senior Bowl.  That is just Mike Brown CHEAP.  Good way to get all the draft picks wrong. 

Take Saturday, the LSU vs Oklahoma and the Clemson vs Ohio State are far more important than anything that happens Sunday in Bengals vs Browns. Bengals scouts and coaches need to go through every play of these games, if only on film. But they need to go through every play of every Bowl Game and the Championship Games that got them here. It would take hours, days, weeks of wading through game film, but it beats the hell out of asking a Cincy guy in a drugstore what he thinks. Might as well ask a Cincy Chili guy. If Bengals are too CHEAP to scout the games in person, at least spend the needed hours with coaches going over days of Bowl Game Film in hopes the different coaches see players they would love to draft. Yes do the Senior Bowl and Combines but put the hours and days looking at all the Bowl Games.

If the Bengals don't even scout the Play-Off Championship Games, they will never win a play-off game. You can't judge these players on the Combine alone because that is Track and Field and Weight Lifting, not Football. The other NFL teams do have scouts and why THEY win play-off games and WE don't.

I'm not even sure Zac Taylor throwing a new playbook at players in the Senior Bowl is the way to judge talent. Our 1 win Zac Taylor who can't even coach his NFL players up over these many months. I would not judge these few Seniors on their week with Zac Taylor and whatever playbook he throws at them. I'm not real impressed with the Zac Playbook after just 1 win. There should be a law against 1 win coaches having the chance to mess up these few Seniors in a one week Chinese Fire Drill Exhibition Game.

Hey the drugstore guy got you something to ease your future hopes.

(12-27-2019, 08:27 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Hey the drugstore guy got you something to ease your future hopes.

He should have sent this to Bengals with his drugstore advice considering Bengals took it up the rear end on most of the players he suggested.  The NFL team with no play-off wins since Mike Brown and most 0-4 starts is also the NFL team with fewest scouts.  That they went as low to not only seek advice from the Cincy drugstore guy, but put him on WLW Radio as if he knew anything, THAT is just CHEAP.   Whatever Scouts we have need to be all over these Bowl Games. 

Look, it was many of you people rooting for no wins to get top draft picks, not me....Now that you got the top draft picks,  wouldn't it make more sense to Scout these Bowl Games and Players.  This Saturday Bengals scouts should be all over every play of the Championship Games, at the very least. ...otherwise they will make their usual awful picks and the lousy season for top picks will be for nothing. 

The Bengals will have 4 picks in the first 100 players. They should come away with 4 players who help this team ASAP in 2020. However if they keep doing Bungalized as normal, they will get 4 players in full body casts who will be wasted picks. They really should come away with 4 Top HEALTHY Players, but THAT will take some Scouting. Pick 33 should be a heck of a player. So should pick 65. There is much more to #1 pick every round than just Round 1. Bengals are really bad and 1 player is not going to fix the worst team in NFL, but getting it right on Pick 33 and 65 and others could turn the worst team in NFL around. This is where Scouting is needed. Not a Cincy drugstore guy or a Cincy chili guy.

(12-27-2019, 04:24 AM)pally Wrote: So you want the team to be monumentally bad two years in a row?  Because that is what it is going to take.  You take the QB when you can.  Waiting for next year often means settling when you can’t get your guy.  

Zac and team will be coaching the Senior Bowl.  That is a week of hands on with much of the draft class

Yup,

What if Lawrence decides to play baseball and Fields joins the French Foreign Legion ?

Ki Jana Carter was a bad #1 pick because no blocking got him ruined in preseason.
Big Daddy Wilkenson was a bad #1 when you look at all the players we didn't take. Some say he wasn't that bad. For a #1 pick he was.
Carson Palmer was a good #1 pick. However no blocking took it's toll on him also. Many injuries due to no blocking.

Whoever Bengals take at #1 is a starter the moment he is drafted. He starts Game 1 of 2020 or otherwise don't draft him.
The Top pick in 2 is like an extra Round 1 and that player is also a starter Game 1, or don't draft him.
We should get 2 players up for 2020 Rookie of the Year right off the top.
The norm around here is both will be too injured to even play. That has to change.

(12-27-2019, 09:36 AM)kevin Wrote: Ki Jana Carter was a bad #1 pick because no blocking got him ruined in preseason.  
Big Daddy Wilkenson was a bad #1 when you look at all the players we didn't take.  Some say he wasn't that bad. For a #1 pick he was.
Carson Palmer was a good #1 pick.  However no blocking took it's toll on him also. Many injuries due to no blocking.  

Whoever Bengals take at #1 is a starter the moment he is drafted.  He starts Game 1 of 2020 or otherwise don't draft him.
The Top pick in 2 is like an extra Round 1 and that player is also a starter Game 1, or don't draft him.  
We should get 2 players up for 2020 Rookie of the Year right off the top.  
The norm around here is both will be too injured to even play.  That has to change.

last time we took a #1 overall pick he sat a year before playing.

Are you saying they should take viagra before the bowl games?

Anyone who thinks the Bengals don't watch the bowl games is clueless.

Anyone who thinks one bowl game is more important than an entire season is also clueless.

Anyone who thinks a scout in the stands can watch all 22 players at once and scout a game as well as a guy in a filmroom who can back up and watch ebvery play mutliple times is clueless.

(12-27-2019, 09:36 AM)kevin Wrote: Big Daddy Wilkenson was a bad #1 when you look at all the players we didn't take.  Some say he wasn't that bad. For a #1 pick he was.

Hoe many former #1 picks would garner 2 first round piucks in trade?  Big Daddy was a very good NFL player.

(12-26-2019, 03:25 PM)kevin Wrote:   This is where every other team that has won a play-off game besides us uses Scouts.

Scouts would have told them Akili Smith had many on field problems to correct.  Instead they found out after the draft in camp that he was light years away from being an NFL QB.  Scouts could have seen what the guy in the Cincy drugstore didn't.

You honestly believe that the Bengals did not scout Akili before the draft?

And you also do not believe that Akili was rated very high in the draft by most of the "experts"?

(12-26-2019, 04:12 PM)kevin Wrote: They will get more clunkers if they don't scout and just go with media draft lists. 

Yet as soon as the Bengals draft a player higher than he was ranked by the media experts *cough* Drew Sample *cough* the Bengals fans start squealing their heads off about how stupid the bengals are for not agreeing with the list of the media experts.

(12-27-2019, 02:18 AM)kevin Wrote: The idea some have that the Bengals have no scouts so they can't scout, and then some add that Bowl Games mean nothing. That is not acceptable. Every other NFL team has scouts and they do scout the Bowl Games. If the Bengals don't scout these players, then it makes no difference where they pick on the draft.

Lets not just look at pick #1. How about pick #33. Pick #65. Pick #97. The Bengals pick #1 in all the rounds. They should get the best player in all the rounds, but that will take scouting. The Bengals get 4 of the first 100 players. They need to get it RIGHT on all 4.

I'm tired of hearing this team has no scouts or can't scout. Since Paul Brown this team has always been about The Draft, and for that you need scouts. This team under Mike Brown went as cheap as to listen to a Cincinnati drugstore guy, and just what in the hell did he know from inside his drugstore. They might as well have been asking a guy at White Castle or Skyline. I'm tired of hearing the lousy excuse that this team can't be expected to scout. Every other team does.

I also add that Burrow and others are not done. That these Bowl games are not just another game. Joe Montana winning the Cotton Bowl with a 2 minute drill drive showed he was better than Jack Thompson. Every other NFL team scouts these Bowl Games and if Bengals are too CHEAP too then they deserve 15 losses every year. You don't go into draft in April and pick names out of a hat. You don't go on just the Combine either. The Combine is track and field, not football. The Combine would be great if you are building a track team.

Bengals are only team since 1991 with no play-off wins and also the team since 1991 with most 0-4 starts. If they are also the only team that refuses to scout, then I say the no scouts and the losing are connected. This team WILL NOT WIN until it gets out of local drugstores and actually Scouts as every other NFL team does.

Having the #1 pick is a big waste of time if Mike Brown is too cheap or too stupid to scout Bowl Games and Players.

It is also stupid to compare the Bowl Games to the Bengals Jets game. You want to see if players step up in the Big Games as Joe Montana did, as Dan Marino did. The Bengals never ever never ever win Big Games, never ever. These Bowl Games are a chance to see who CAN win Big Games. Jim Plunkett beating Ohio State in the Rose Bowl, I was not surprised years later as he won Super Bowls. The Combine is a track and field contest, but the Bowl Games are FOOTBALL. You know who looked good in his Bowl Game was Jeff Blake who the Bengals had as 3rd string and only played him due to injuries, and they discovered this Bowl Game star was the best QB on the team. Another Bowl Game star was Jerome Bettis, who beat the heck out of Bengals for Steelers. ....Bengals could learn a LOT from scouting Bowl Games, and I don't mean the Senior Bowl. Anthony Munoz had a GREAT Bowl Game as he blocked USC to Rose Bowl win over Ohio State.

Vince Young and Akili Smith played well in bowl games too.

(12-27-2019, 02:37 PM)jason Wrote: Vince Young and Akili Smith played well in bowl games too.

Vince Young played one of the greatest games I have evr seen by a college QB.


Here is one that Ohio State fans might remember.  Jarvis Moss, a decent DE from Florida who should have been athird round pick untill he got two sacks in the national championship game against Ohio State and jumped to the middle of the first round.  Total flop.  6 sacks in a four year NFL career.