Admittedly, I’m always overly optimistic about every season, but this feels different to me. The biggest question mark being the coaching, however I believe they will and should all return.

I’m curious to know how the defense ranked over the second half of the season or last 3rd of the season because they looked infinitely better than they did in the first half, but I don’t know the numbers.

I think we have real weapons at all the offensive skill positions with a very underrated CJ Uzomah and underused Eifert. I believe Auden Tate will have a breakout year, given the assumed new QB will trust him and not rely too heavily on other (established) receivers.

I think there’s question marks along the Oline, but they’re not as puzzling as the narrative indicates. I’d like to see an upgrade or two, but I think these cast-offs have enough potential to allow most plays to develop.

I’ve always been a fan of and defended Andy. But sometimes it is just the QB and as much as I like Andy, I’m hoping it was just him because that means all the other pieces are good enough for the next QB.

I believe we have an excellent front 7 on defense. I’m a 4-3 guy, mainly because I’m most familiar with it because of this team, however I think they have all the pieces to lean heavily on a 3-4 front as this gets all of their best players on the field at the same time. It would awesome to land a an established play maker at LBer because he’d make this group fierce but I don’t think it’s necessary. I like that kid from Cleveland that hasn’t been re signed yet. I think Evans, Lawson, Pratt and Vigil/Hubbard (I know I know) have the potential to be stout and could use some help but I think the team should focus on a ball hawking super stud Safety (if one’s available). I think this is the missing piece on defense a la Minka Fitzpatrick.

I think Darious Phillips showed enough (4 picks is the 3rd highest) that cutting Dre is worth the risk and savings.

I know people think this team is far-away, but I disagree. Hopefully Zac makes the leap in his second season.

(12-30-2019, 09:11 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Admittedly, I’m always overly optimistic about every season, but this feels different to me. The biggest question mark being the coaching, however I believe they will and should all return.

I’m curious to know how the defense ranked over the second half of the season or last 3rd of the season because they looked infinitely better than they did in the first half, but I don’t know the numbers.

I think we have real weapons at all the offensive skill positions with a very underrated CJ Uzomah and underused Eifert. I believe Auden Tate will have a breakout year, given the assumed new QB will trust him and not rely too heavily on other (established) receivers.

I think there’s question marks along the Oline, but they’re not as puzzling as the narrative indicates. I’d like to see an upgrade or two, but I think these cast-offs have enough potential to allow most plays to develop.

I’ve always been a fan of and defended Andy. But sometimes it is just the QB and as much as I like Andy, I’m hoping it was just him because that means all the other pieces are good enough for the next QB.

I believe we have an excellent front 7 on defense. I’m a 4-3 guy, mainly because I’m most familiar with it because of this team, however I think they have all the pieces to lean heavily on a 3-4 front as this gets all of their best players on the field at the same time. It would awesome to land a an established play maker at LBer because he’d make this group fierce but I don’t think it’s necessary. I like that kid from Cleveland that hasn’t been re signed yet. I think Evans, Lawson, Pratt and Vigil/Hubbard (I know I know) have the potential to be stout and could use some help but I think the team should focus on a ball hawking super stud Safety (if one’s available). I think this is the missing piece on defense a la Minka Fitzpatrick.

I think Darious Phillips showed enough (4 picks is the 3rd highest) that cutting Dre is worth the risk and savings.

I know people think this team is far-away, but I disagree. Hopefully Zac makes the leap in his second season.

Come On.  A Sleeping Giant ???   How do you get that from worst record in NFL in 2019 and last in AFC North in 2018 in back to back awful BUNGLES years ???  

The WORST offensive line in NFL in 2017, 2018 and 2019.   How you say they show potential is beyond me.  What potential ?  This team needs HUGE changes across the offensive line at every position.  Ogbuhei was a bust as a #1 pick. So was Fisher at #2. Price has been a bust as a #1 pick. Until he gets off being injured so has Williams as a #1. These Top Picks Being Flops are Killing This Team. The high priced LT from Bills was no help.

Then there is Defense that was WORST team against the run in 2019.  Let's not forget that for last few years Bengals D has given up more 3rd and long first downs than any team in NFL.  Buffalo got us again as the high priced LB was NO HELP.

No Blocking and Bad Defense do NOT make this a Sleeping Giant. 

The fact is The Bengals have just had THE WORST 2 years in franchise history.  Worse than the BUNGLES YEARS of 1990's and 2000, 2001, 2002.   The WORST 2 years in franchise history.  

Don't read too much into Bengals beating a bad team in The Jets and a bad team in The Browns.  They didn't beat any good teams, that's for sure.  WORST RECORD in NFL.  

I mean, say that maybe they can draft and rebuild.  Say that you are with them in the rebuild.  But please don't call this awful team a Sleeping Giant.  If they brought back the same team in 2020 they would go 2-14 or worse.   Yes they play like they are asleep most of the time.  Yes, they are a giant pile of excrement with the stink rising off the last 3 seasons.  Sleeping Giant excrement is nothing to get excited about.  Say you are behind them in the rebuild, but don't pretend this is a good team if they bring everybody back.  

New Dey or Seize The Dey was just more Last Place Awful.   It's very possible AJ Green and Andy Dalton are gone fast in 2020.   I'm now not too sold on the LB and LT we got from Buffalo a couple years ago at a high cap price.  Also Price is a disappointing #1 draft pick so far. 

I see this team drafting Burrow as their starting rookie QB in 2020, no sitting the bench in a wasted year as Marvin did Carson.  After that pick, the Bengals need MAJOR help at O Line, Defense... and WR /TE comes in 3rd.  The Bengals need to START building the TEAM OF THE 2020'S with this Draft.  

It's time to say good-bye to many losing players on this team because they truly are as bad as their record the last few years.  Yes, get behind the rebuild for the next decade, but please don't wish the return of all these players.  The win over 6-10 Browns wasn't all that great. 

Watch LSU vs Clemson to see the 2020 leader of this team in Burrow, but they need to get him some blocking, not keep the bums you say have potential. They have the potential to get Burrow career injured early, that is the only potential this O Line has. Watch Burrow Jan 13th and hope Bengals also get him some blocking. The Defense stinks also, worst against the run in NFL. As Howard Cossell would say, Lets Tell It Like It Is.

I'll have whatever you're drinking!

Seriously, I admire your optimism and that's the way my heart feels after every losing season but my brain tells me something different. 2-14 is horrific. Bad. Atrocious. With this roster it's completely inexcusable. The Bengals are far from being a playoff team and I respectfully disagree with you even though you made some really good points. I wouldn't retain any coach or coordator except for those on special teams.

However, we know how badly Mike Brown resists change. I believe every coach is likely to be retained through 2020 -- and it will be up to the staff to come up with better play calling schemes on both sides of the ball.

I dunno if I'd call it a "sleeping giant" but I think it's safe to say they got to work through some growing pains. Taylor and Anarumo were very inexperienced as playcallers. They both seemed to get better by the end of the season. If they can get a better QB, 1-2 more really good OL to protect him, and another good LB to go with Pratt, this team should be at 5+ wins next year.

I don't want Taylor calling plays next year. As a first-time head coach, he has enough on his plate as it is. Get an experience OC in here who knows what they're doing.

I thought our sleeping giant was Mikey in his chair in the corner office.

(12-30-2019, 10:17 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I'll have whatever you're drinking!

Seriously, I admire your optimism and that's the way my heart feels after every losing season but my brain tells me something different.  2-14 is horrific.  Bad.  Atrocious.  With this roster it's completely inexcusable.  The Bengals are far from being a playoff team and I respectfully disagree with you even though you made some really good points.  I wouldn't retain any coach or coordator except for those on special teams.  

However, we know how badly Mike Brown resists change.  I believe every coach is likely to be retained through 2020 -- and it will be up to the staff to come up with better play calling schemes on both sides of the ball.

and better players.  They don't have the players to execute plays no matter who the coaches are.  Oh, they beat the 6-10 Browns.  If they had played a play-off team they would have got their teeth kicked.   The 2-14 record is for real and 2018 was pretty awful also. 

The Offensive Line is Awful and The Defense is Awful.   I know people get tired of hearing it because it has been this way the last 3 years.  They don't have the Blocking or Tackling to win games, no matter if they draft Burrow.  By all means, draft Burrow, but address the O Line and Defense also.  This team still needs a major rebuild.  I'm sorry Price stinks and Williams injured.  After Ogbuhei and Fisher we needed help, not more top pick disasters.  The LT from Bills has been a bust also.  Of course the O Line Stinks.

We Need New Players.  2-14 is no illusion. ...On Defense, worst Run Defense in NFL. No Blocking. No Tackling. No Wins.

Somebody said maybe 5-11 next season. OH BOY !!!....What a Sleeping Giant....the bar has been lowered from Play-Off wins to 5 Wins. I'm not buying into any more NEW DEY. Go out and win some games in September and October and I'll believe it when I see it.

Sleeping giant? We are more like a comatose kobold. But I predicted 8 wins so I'm clearly able to fall into off-season hype traps, so stay tuned!

Oh c'mon.. You guys make it sound as if Mike Brown has ever been known to make some kind of ridiculous decisions on draft day before..AS IF for every hit in the draft he picks 5 misses.. I just don't know where that kind of thinking comes from.. Just you wait..In a year you'll all be standing in line to chip in for that big statue of Mikey on Fountain Square.. 

(12-30-2019, 10:17 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I'll have whatever you're drinking!

Seriously, I admire your optimism and that's the way my heart feels after every losing season but my brain tells me something different.  2-14 is horrific.  Bad.  Atrocious.  With this roster it's completely inexcusable.  The Bengals are far from being a playoff team and I respectfully disagree with you even though you made some really good points.  I wouldn't retain any coach or coordator except for those on special teams.  

However, we know how badly Mike Brown resists change.  I believe every coach is likely to be retained through 2020 -- and it will be up to the staff to come up with better play calling schemes on both sides of the ball.

I'm going to give Burrow a chance...but there was minimal reason for optimism. They need coaching changes. Burrow coming in and being amazing is about our only shot here.

The Dolphins were tanking and won what 5 games? The last one knocking the Pat's from the 2 seed. To me stuff like that is reason for optimism.

I remember my first 8 ball.

Well we found some solid depth at OT in Fred Johnson, so that's a good way to head into the offseason. Even if he just ends up a backup here. the difference in him at LT and John Jerry at LT was night and day. He looked good starting, but at the VERY minimum we got some real actual NFL caliber depth in this guy. My hope is he gets even waaay better and ends up our RT with Jonah on the left. Get us a decent G or two and this offense can go. Mixon is a beast. Whatever they have been doing for him is working amazingly well. Build this line and let Mixon take the pressure off Burrow.

(12-30-2019, 09:11 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Admittedly, I’m always overly optimistic about every season, but this feels different to me. The biggest question mark being the coaching, however I believe they will and should all return.

I’m curious to know how the defense ranked over the second half of the season or last 3rd of the season because they looked infinitely better than they did in the first half, but I don’t know the numbers.

I think we have real weapons at all the offensive skill positions with a very underrated CJ Uzomah and underused Eifert. I believe Auden Tate will have a breakout year, given the assumed new QB will trust him and not rely too heavily on other (established) receivers.

I think there’s question marks along the Oline, but they’re not as puzzling as the narrative indicates. I’d like to see an upgrade or two, but I think these cast-offs have enough potential to allow most plays to develop.

I’ve always been a fan of and defended Andy. But sometimes it is just the QB and as much as I like Andy, I’m hoping it was just him because that means all the other pieces are good enough for the next QB.

I believe we have an excellent front 7 on defense. I’m a 4-3 guy, mainly because I’m most familiar with it because of this team, however I think they have all the pieces to lean heavily on a 3-4 front as this gets all of their best players on the field at the same time. It would awesome to land a an established play maker at LBer because he’d make this group fierce but I don’t think it’s necessary. I like that kid from Cleveland that hasn’t been re signed yet. I think Evans, Lawson, Pratt and Vigil/Hubbard (I know I know) have the potential to be stout and could use some help but I think the team should focus on a ball hawking super stud Safety (if one’s available). I think this is the missing piece on defense a la Minka Fitzpatrick.

I think Darious Phillips showed enough (4 picks is the 3rd highest) that cutting Dre is worth the risk and savings.

I know people think this team is far-away, but I disagree. Hopefully Zac makes the leap in his second season.

While I completely agree about a Safety (God, how I wanted Derwin James....) and believe Phillips is starting material, no way is our front 7 "excellent".  They might pass as average.  Last night, watching the 49ers play.  That is an excellent front 7.  Watching it made me depressed...they are light years beyond Cincy, and they are going to win it all this year...just watch.  They have the coach and the talent.

They commented about how they built that team from the defensive line....I hope the Bengals draft a stud DE to replace/push Carlos and then you have a rotation of Hubbard, Lawson, Dunlap, and said draft pick.  They also need a Frostee Rucker swing-type guy that can rush from inside.  I thought Hubbard would do more of that this year, but I didn't see it as much. 

Unrelated, but am I the only guy that thought at the end of the year that Hubbard and Dunlap looked about 20 lbs thinner than at preseason?  They looked downright skinny, especially in their arms?  Better nutrition?

I was buying into this until you started talking up the linebackers. Just no, they are terrible. We don't have a single good linebacker on the team.

Also 6 wins next year would be a decent improvement for me with Zac being on the way out if we can't make the playoffs year 3.

(12-30-2019, 10:44 AM)Big Boss Wrote: I don't want Taylor calling plays next year.  As a first-time head coach, he has enough on his plate as it is.  Get an experience OC in here who knows what they're doing.

shumor is available for OC and jay gruden

(12-30-2019, 11:52 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: shumor is available for OC and jay gruden

And Freddie Kitchins 

(12-30-2019, 11:54 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: And Freddie Kitchins 

Oh c'mon.. What did kitchens do wrong other than screw up a great offensive lineup? He's fit right in with Mike Brown's wet dreaminess outcomes.. Now watch Belichick retire and Kitchens go to NE and.... NO...I can't say it..   

(12-30-2019, 12:01 PM)grampahol Wrote: Oh c'mon.. What did kitchens do wrong other than screw up a great offensive lineup? He's fit right in with Mike Brown's wet dreaminess outcomes.. Now watch Belichick retire and Kitchens go to NE and.... NO...I can't say it..   

If Tom Brady retires I could see Bill Belichick retiring. Even though I wholeheartedly believe it's Bill's system that made Tom and not the other way around. Look how good Matt Cassel looked in that offense and he was awful.

(12-30-2019, 12:06 PM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: If Tom Brady retires I could see Bill Belichick retiring. Even though I wholeheartedly believe it's Bill's system that made Tom and not the other way around. Look how good Matt Cassel looked in that offense and he was awful.

So it's a done deal then, huh? Kitchens is poised to become the GOAT HC then..   Sometimes you just have to take a leap of faith to get killed at the bottom.. 

No less than 9 wins next year....