Watching Michael Thomas and Larry Fitzgerald, I see I lot of similarities in their body type and athleticism with Auden Tate. Tate may be a "poor man's" (insert Mike Brown joke here) version of these players, but seeing how Fitz extended his career moving to the slot and how Thomas gets 45% of his targets in the slot, I think it would make sense to move Tate there and try Boyd on the outside.

Boyd is the best route-runner on the team not named Green, and has more "long speed" than quicks anyways.

I see Tate as a very reliable, move-the-chains receiver for the Bengals that could fill the role of TJ Whostolemyhonda.

I guess I just see him as a bit of a waste outside vs. Boyd who could do both. If Green isn't re-signed or is traded (not likely IMHO), Boyd might be the best choice to replace him.

My guess is they would want to line up all their WR’s at all positions for flexibility and confusing the defense.

(12-30-2019, 03:20 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: He's probably better than Webb.

(12-30-2019, 03:29 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: My guess is they would want to line up all their WR’s at all positions for flexibility and confusing the defense.

This is my answer as well.

Hell, Erickson has had his best catches and YAC playing outside.

(12-30-2019, 03:28 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Watching Michael Thomas and Larry Fitzgerald, I see I lot of similarities in their body type and athleticism with Auden Tate.  Tate may be a "poor man's" (insert Mike Brown joke here) version of these players, but seeing how Fitz extended his career moving to the slot and how Thomas gets 45% of his targets in the slot, I think it would make sense to move Tate there and try Boyd on the outside.  

Boyd is the best route-runner on the team not named Green, and has more "long speed" than quicks anyways.  

I see Tate as a very reliable, move-the-chains receiver for the Bengals that could fill the role of TJ Whostolemyhonda.  

I guess I just see him as a bit of a waste outside vs. Boyd who could do both.  If Green isn't re-signed or is traded (not likely IMHO), Boyd might be the best choice to replace him.

Thomas and Fitzgerald got looks in the slot because it got them single coverage and both can consistently beat single coverage.  Tate can't consistently beat single coverage, so putting him in the slot is kind of pointless.  Boyd can consistently beat single coverage, so you want him in the slot.  You usually want your slot receiver to have some YAC ability and Tate is lacking there, too.

(12-30-2019, 03:28 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Watching Michael Thomas and Larry Fitzgerald, I see I lot of similarities in their body type and athleticism with Auden Tate. Tate may be a "poor man's" (insert Mike Brown joke here) version of these players, but seeing how Fitz extended his career moving to the slot and how Thomas gets 45% of his targets in the slot, I think it would make sense to move Tate there and try Boyd on the outside.

Boyd is the best route-runner on the team not named Green, and has more "long speed" than quicks anyways.

I see Tate as a very reliable, move-the-chains receiver for the Bengals that could fill the role of TJ Whostolemyhonda.

I guess I just see him as a bit of a waste outside vs. Boyd who could do both. If Green isn't re-signed or is traded (not likely IMHO), Boyd might be the best choice to replace him.

Tate is a WR 5 on a good team, and a WR 4 on a bad one. In other words, he’s subject to roster churn and replacement. Auden will win his fair share of contested balls, but his lack of speed and wiggle limits his ceiling.

(12-30-2019, 04:50 PM)Whatever Wrote: Thomas and Fitzgerald got looks in the slot because it got them single coverage and both can consistently beat single coverage.  Tate can't consistently beat single coverage, so putting him in the slot is kind of pointless.  Boyd can consistently beat single coverage, so you want him in the slot.  You usually want your slot receiver to have some YAC ability and Tate is lacking there, too.

I understand the reasoning for everybody being able to play all recieving position. IMHO the person who ideally fits the slot is Ross because of his size and speed.

Ross against mostly any teams 3rd best corner should be a mismatch all daylong...


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(12-30-2019, 04:53 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: Tate is a WR 5 on a good team, and a WR 4 on a bad one.  In other words, he’s subject to roster churn and replacement.  Auden will win his fair share of contested balls, but his lack of speed and wiggle limits his ceiling.

I disagree he's our 3rd best WR behind AJ and Boyd and can be a solid #3 on any team.

Yes he doesn't have th speed and wiggle but the kid can catch most anything thrown his way.  As the OP said he's a poor mans AJ Green, Im glad to see we were able to hold onto him after ole Marvin did his usual of screwing any and all rookies.

Moving forward I think he can be a valuable part of this team, heck I would keep him over Ross (who needs to be traded for anything) in a heartbeat!

Tate struggles to separate regardless of where you play him, but he does everything well that he physically can do. Dude is just slow for being a WR in the NFL.
You play him when you need size or when there's an injury. He's a WR4/situational player.

His best position for the team would be X. He has the size and strength to neutralize bump and run. This frees up AJ (hopefully), Boyd, etc. to be off the line.

This coaching staff really had no imagination or creativity
When it came to Auden Tate.
Whenever he would line up he would run the same
4 routes over and over. Usually his back was turned to the defense
Or he had his body extended to Make a catch very few others on this team could make.
Kinda funny for all the anti Tate guys who say he can't separate
Or they wanted to keep Core over him Tate averaged 14.0 per catch
I think that was tops on the team.
Tate really needs to be used on more routes than the same 4 I saw
This year
I'd like to see him used on more seam routes with his momentum going foward

Boyd is best in the slot IMO, and gets shut down more often on the outside. Keep Boyd where he is at.

A lot of the decision here will be based on the status of AJ Green. If AJ comes back, you line up Auden on the other side and bring in Ross for specialy 4WR packages.

If AJ Green leaves, I think it would be wise to draft a WR in an earlier rd this year. If we can snag an LSU receiver in the 3rd, that would be great.

I’m just glad this thread isn’t about moving him to TE...

(12-30-2019, 05:37 PM)corpjet Wrote: I disagree he's our 3rd best WR behind AJ and Boyd and can be a solid #3 on any team.

Yes he doesn't have th speed and wiggle but the kid can catch most anything thrown his way.  As the OP said he's a poor mans AJ Green, Im glad to see we were able to hold onto him after ole Marvin did his usual of screwing any and all rookies.

Moving forward I think he can be a valuable part of this team, heck I would keep him over Ross (who needs to be traded for anything) in a heartbeat!

Tate caught the same 50% of his targets this that Ross did.  Despite 4 more games and 24 more targets, he had 2 fewer TD's and only 69 more yards than Ross.  His stats were poor for a WR that got 80 targets over the course of the season.  He's not a #3 on anything more than a bad team and he's not better than Ross.  

WR is a huge problem area for this team.  It's honestly in worse shape than the OL.  We need to be drafting and signing over both Tate and Ross. 

(12-30-2019, 08:04 PM)impactplaya Wrote: This coaching staff really had no  imagination or creativity
When it came to Auden Tate.
Whenever he would line up he would run the same
4 routes over and over. Usually his back was turned to the defense
Or he had his body extended to Make a catch very few others on this team could make.
Kinda funny for all the anti Tate guys who say he can't separate
Or they wanted to keep Core over him Tate averaged 14.0 per catch
I think that was tops on the team.
Tate really needs to be used on more routes than the same 4 I saw
This year
I'd like to see him used on more seam routes with his momentum going foward

Ross averaged 18.1 ypc to top the team.

You realize not every WR comes into the NFL with a fully developed route tree, right?  Sending a guy that runs a 4.68 40 on go routes probably isn't a recipe for success.  He also lacks the short area quickness necessary for a number of different routes.  He has real physical limitations that limit how he can be effectively used in an offense.

(12-30-2019, 10:59 PM)Whatever Wrote: Ross averaged 18.1 ypc to top the team.

You realize not every WR comes into the NFL with a fully developed route tree, right?  Sending a guy that runs a 4.68 40 on go routes probably isn't a recipe for success.  He also lacks the short area quickness necessary for a number of different routes.  He has real physical limitations that limit how he can be effectively used in an offense.

I'm aware Tate ran a very limited route tree at FSU. 
I think that was a trait that was on his scouting report 
And caused him to fall.to.RD 7.
Actually sending him on a go route from time to time is not a bad idea.
It becomes a 50/50 ball. And I don't see a DB strong enough to take a ball out of Tatea hands 
And it 6'5 Tate can high point it over most DBs.
For all the reminders you tell me about his lack separation and 
Short area quickness somehow he averaged 14.0 yards a catch 
How did he Manage to.do that? 
I'd like to see Tate used in more bunch formations.some motion
In the backfield. Up the field seam routes. Corner routes

Personally, I don't care where they line him up, because you know exactly what you're getting, no matter where he begins the play. He's tall, strong, has great hands and body control. He is a possession receiver extraodinaire, can take a hit and move the chains, can go up and over defenders in the red zone.

Knock him all you want, for his lack of speed. His other qualities still make him a damn good football player.

(12-30-2019, 10:19 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’m just glad this thread isn’t about moving him to TE...

HaHa I thought that's what it would be about too.

(12-30-2019, 11:42 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I'm aware Tate ran a very limited route tree at FSU. 
I think that was a trait that was on his scouting report 
And caused him to fall.to.RD 7.
Actually sending him on a go route from time to time is not a bad idea.
It becomes a 50/50 ball. And I don't see a DB strong enough to take a ball out of Tatea hands 
And it 6'5 Tate can high point it over most DBs.
For all the reminders you tell me about his lack separation and 
Short area quickness somehow he averaged 14.0 yards a catch 
How did he Manage to.do that? 
I'd like to see Tate used in more bunch formations.some motion
In the backfield. Up the field seam routes. Corner routes

Tate was tied for 68th in the league in Targets.  He was also tied for 102nd in catches, 73rd in yards, and 164th in TD's.  That's poor production for that number of targets by any measure.  

He has a good ypc for a couple of reasons.  He doesn't have the short area quickness for a lot short routes and doesn't have the top end speed for deep routes, meaning he runs a bunch of intermediate stuff.  He also did a good job this year of breaking tackles and dragging guys to generate YAC which adds to his ypc.

You don't run him on fly routes because any CB in trail technique will be right in his hip pocket and have a play on any underthrown ball and any S with over the top responsibility will easily get there due to his lack of speed.  He caught 50% of his targets this year.  Just because a lot of those were contested doesn't mean he wins a high % of contested balls.  Furthermore, we heard this "just chuck him 50/50 balls" stuff during the preseason when people were making him out to be this unstoppable red zone TD machine.  He had 1 TD all year.  

At the end of the day, his production simply doesn't live up to this narrative some are trying to spin for him.  He is not a starting quality WR in the NFL.  He's a #5 or #6 that had some inflated yardage numbers due to seeing a large number of targets due to injuries and lack of quality depth.

(12-31-2019, 12:25 AM)Whatever Wrote: Tate was tied for 68th in the league in Targets.  He was also tied for 102nd in catches, 73rd in yards, and 164th in TD's.  That's poor production for that number of targets by any measure.  

He has a good ypc for a couple of reasons.  He doesn't have the short area quickness for a lot short routes and doesn't have the top end speed for deep routes, meaning he runs a bunch of intermediate stuff.  He also did a good job this year of breaking tackles and dragging guys to generate YAC which adds to his ypc.

You don't run him on fly routes because any CB in trail technique will be right in his hip pocket and have a play on any underthrown ball and any S with over the top responsibility will easily get there due to his lack of speed.  He caught 50% of his targets this year.  Just because a lot of those were contested doesn't mean he wins a high % of contested balls.  Furthermore, we heard this "just chuck him 50/50 balls" stuff during the preseason when people were making him out to be this unstoppable red zone TD machine.  He had 1 TD all year.  

At the end of the day, his production simply doesn't live up to this narrative some are trying to spin for him.  He is not a starting quality WR in the NFL.  He's a #5 or #6 that had some inflated yardage numbers due to seeing a large number of targets due to injuries and lack of quality depth.

Yes you are correct. But this where scheme comes in.
Who says he has to be strictly lined up on the outside to run a go route ?
You can put him on the heels of a TE and have him run a myriad 
Of routes.
I thought ZT and Callahan were porous in the route combos 
This year.and their lack of pre snap motion with WRs.
You can spin it any way you want .....but at the end of the day 
14 yds per catch is still 14 yrds per catch.

(12-31-2019, 12:58 AM)impactplaya Wrote: Yes you are correct. But this where scheme comes in.
Who says he has to be strictly lined up on the outside to run a go route ?
You can put him on the heels of a TE and have him run a myriad 
Of routes.
I thought ZT and Callahan were porous in the route combos 
This year.and their lack of pre snap motion with WRs.
You can spin it any way you want .....but at the end of the day 
14 yds per catch is still 14 yrds per catch.

If I'm scheming a guy open for a go route, I'm scheming open a guy who has enough speed to take it to the house.  That isn't Auden Tate.  

It's hard to say if the lack of motion was by original design.  AJ was out.  Ross was in year 3, but missed a lot of time.  Tate was in year 2 and didn't play much as a rookie.  Willis and Morgan were rookie cfa's.  They may have felt the need to simplify things based on the lack of experience out there.

14 ypc is a good average, but it's deceptive without context.  You can give a guy 10 Targets and he catches 2 of them for 28 yards, he'll have a 14 ypc.  It doesn't mean he's good.  It just means he averages 14 ypc.  It also doesn't take into account all the other metrics that he's below average to outright terrible in.