At the close of the 2019 season there were some players made great Strides and the 4 I named IMO have made the biggest.
The curious thing is that....all 4 of these players
Are not high or even mid round draft picks.
Let's look at their short resumes

Phillips. 4 INT in less than 100 snaps. Given a high grade
By PFF.

Hopkins..just got a extension. Enough said

Tate. 40 catches. Very reliable 1st down target

Johnson..stout In pass protection in his 2 games
Bengals scored 68 points in the 2 games he played. Definetely a lock on the roster next season.

The thing is. Some of these guys are out playing
1st RD draft picks.
That's a bad and good thing.
Explain to me why these non 1st Rd draft picks
Are escalated their games ?
While others are regressing.
I'm not a fan of Tobin and the scouts
But props for finding them gems
Who can be potential core players ahead

Hubbard had gone from good to a monster.
Pratt has significantly improved, and as such, Vigil's play has gotten better.
Billings and Topou have had good seasons. (Man, I was hoping Big Bill would get that interception yesterday and we could watch him run the ball while the Stains tried to tackle him. Then we would get to see the fat guy dance in the end zone)

(12-30-2019, 12:48 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Hubbard had gone from good to a monster.
Pratt has significantly improved, and as such, Vigil's play has gotten better.
Billings and Topou have had good seasons. (Man, I was hoping Big Bill would get that interception yesterday and we could watch him run the ball while the Stains tried to tackle him. Then we would get to see the fat guy dance in the end zone)

As someone said yesterday, "Come on Billings! You're paid to catch the ball!" 
I used to think Smith would have made the poster boy of running downfield with his shirt off.. 

As for Tate..I think the jury is still out on him. he's shown promise, but he still lacks any effective speed to change the game significantly. I definitely underrated him when he was signed..

(12-30-2019, 12:52 PM)grampahol Wrote: As someone said yesterday, "Come on Billings! You're paid to catch the ball!" 
I used to think Smith would have made the poster boy of running downfield with his shirt off.. 

As for Tate..I think the jury is still out on him. he's shown promise, but he still lacks any effective speed to change the game significantly. I definitely underrated him when he was signed..

Tate belongs in the slot. AJ and Tyler out at wide. Ross on the bench. They say receivers take 3 yrs to hit their stride. With the amount Ross is hurt, he ought to get there year 5 or 6 or so...

(12-30-2019, 12:43 PM)impactplaya Wrote: At the close of the 2019 season  there were some players made great Strides and the 4 I named IMO have made the biggest.
The curious thing is that....all 4 of these players
Are not high or even mid round draft picks.
Let's look at their short resumes

Phillips. 4 INT in less than 100 snaps. Given a high grade
By PFF.

Hopkins..just got a extension. Enough said

Tate. 40 catches. Very reliable 1st down target

Johnson..stout In pass protection in his 2 games
Bengals scored 68 points in the 2 games he played. Definetely a lock on the roster next season.

The thing is. Some of these guys are out playing
1st RD draft picks.
That's a bad and good thing.
Explain to me why these non 1st Rd draft picks
Are escalated their games ?
While others are regressing.
I'm not a fan of Tobin and the scouts
But props for finding them gems
Who can be potential core players ahead

It's not exclusive to the Bengals that some later round picks out perform higher round picks. Of course, you better hit on way more 1st rounders than you miss on if you want to be successful, but what often separates good teams from bad is hitting on later round picks. 

Measurables will always be a reason guys get drafted high, but it doesn't always translate to the NFL field. Measurables alone are usually enough to make a player a standout at the college level because they make a player more physically gifted than most players on the field. That isn't the case in the NFL where you better be able to mentally adjust to the complexity and talent level of the game. There is still some development of 21-22 year old players to go through, and some continue to develop more than others. 

Also, some players don't get drafted high simply because they didn't play in a Power 5 conference and there is hesitance on how their game translates to the NFL. This is how a guy like Antonio Brown, who played in the MAC, slips to the 6th round. 

Maybe some of these guys are finally starting to get acclimated to the new systems the team is running. We'll see how they look next year, but I've got some optimism that the team at least plays for Zac and that we will some improvement with some better talent next year.

I thought Wilson made the leap at safety and on teams as well before he got hurt.

If I were to give each major contributor on this team a grade on the season it would be as follows:

Scale:
Bad: Needs replaced now.
Weak: Needs replaced, but not urgently.
Fair: Average player. Could be replaced, but not a major concern in the rebuild.
Good: Above average player. No need to replace.
Elite: Retain at all costs.

OFFENSE:

QB:
Andy Dalton: Fair
Ryan Finley: Bad

RB:
Joe Mixon: Elite
Giovani Bernard: Fair

WR:
AJ Green: Good
Auden Tate: Fair
Tyler Boyd: Good
Alex Erickson: Weak
John Ross: Fair

TE:
Tyler Eifert: Good
CJ Uzomah: Fair
Drew Sample: TBD/Weak

OT:
Jonah Williams: TBD/Good
Fred Johnson: Fair (limited snap count)
Cordy Glenn: Fair
John Jerry: Bad
Bobby Hart: Bad

OG:
Michael Jordan: Weak (with potential)
Billy Price: Bad (give him 1 more year before cutting him).
John Miller: Fair
Alex Redmond: Weak

Center:
Trey Hopkins: Good


DEFENSE:

DE:
Carlos Dunlap: Good
Sam Hubbard: Good
Carl Lawson: Good
Andrew Brown: Weak

DT:
Andrew Billings: Fair
Geno Atkins: Good
Josh Tupou: Fair
Ryan Glasgow: Fair

LB:
Germaine Pratt: Fair
Nick Vigil: Fair
Hardy Nickerson: Weak
Jordan Evans: Weak
LaRoy Reynolds: Bad

CB:
Dre Kirkpatrick: Fair
Darqueze Dennard: Good
William Jackson III: Good
Darius Phillips: Good
B.W. Webb: Bad
Tony McRae: Weak

S:
Shawn Williams: Good
Jessie Bates III: Good
Clayton Fejedelem: Fair
Brandon Wilson: Fair

ST:
Randy Bullock: Good
Kevin Huber: Good
Clark Harris: Fair
Alex Erickson: Fair
Darius Phillips: Fair
Brandon Wilson: Good

Maybe I'm being too generous, but I think we can fix this team in 2 drafts :)

LBs improved as a whole once Preston Brown was cut. That was truly addition by subtraction. How in the Hell did he trip into leading the league in tackles one year?

I mostly agree with your ratings, but I’d have Billings and Tupou both as good.

Even with a small scouting department, with technology being what it is today and most college games being televised, there's not as big of a gap in talent as there used to be outside the first 15 picks or so. And the level of play has increased, too. You take a guy in the third round these days and plug him into a team from the 80s, he's probly bigger, stronger and faster. He probably smokes a lot less, too.

I would upgrade Uzomah to good. He didn't get as many opportunities this year with Zac forgetting we had TEs but he's the best blocker of the group
Alec Erickson, I would rate as fair in his WR role. It is just too often this year he had to play something other than the 4th or 5th WR on the team
Clark Harris is one of the best LS in the NFL. He certainly deserves a higher than fair rating

(12-30-2019, 12:43 PM)impactplaya Wrote: At the close of the 2019 season  there were some players made great Strides and the 4 I named IMO have made the biggest.
The curious thing is that....all 4 of these players
Are not high or even mid round draft picks.
Let's look at their short resumes

Phillips. 4 INT in less than 100 snaps. Given a high grade
By PFF.

Hopkins..just got a extension. Enough said

Tate. 40 catches. Very reliable 1st down target

Johnson..stout In pass protection in his 2 games
Bengals scored 68 points in the 2 games he played. Definetely a lock on the roster next season.

The thing is. Some of these guys are out playing
1st RD draft picks.
That's a bad and good thing.
Explain to me why these non 1st Rd draft picks
Are escalated their games ?
While others are regressing.
I'm not a fan of Tobin and the scouts
But props for finding them gems
Who can be potential core players ahead

This depends which 1st rounders you are referring.
Tate started coming along while John Ross was on IR, so that's how that came to be.
Fred Johnson took over at LT because the only healthy LT is disgruntled and the 1st round draft pick wasn't able to play.
Price just flat out got beat out by Hopkins, who has gone from UDFA to practice squad to not good starting RG to quality C. He's really worked his way up.
Phillips doing well isn't really an indictment on the 1st round CBs the Bengals have because WJ3 has been solid and Dennard too. Kirkpatrick being out has given Phillips more opportunities. What I would look to do in the offseason is move Kirkpatrick to another team and retain Dennard so that the starting CBs are WJ3, Dennard, and Phillips.

You have Erickson underrated- He consistently has one of the better sets of hands on this team and runs hard.
You also have Bernard underrated-He may not have a lot of yardage this year, but he wasn't used much, and is still one of the best blocking backs in the league
You have Clark Harris underrated- When was the last time you saw a long snap messed up?
CJ Uzomah moved into the good category this year.
Topou, Billings and Glasgow all should be in the good category

(12-31-2019, 02:29 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: WR:
AJ Green: Good
Auden Tate: Fair
Tyler Boyd: BEAST
Alex Erickson:  Good
John Ross: FAIL

Fixed it for you.  :andy:

(12-31-2019, 11:31 AM)Sled21 Wrote: You have Erickson underrated- He consistently has one of the better sets of hands on this team and runs hard.
You also have Bernard underrated-He may not have a lot of yardage this year, but he wasn't used much, and is still one of the best blocking backs in the league
You have Clark Harris underrated- When was the last time you saw a long snap messed up?
CJ Uzomah moved into the good category this year.
Topou, Billings and Glasgow all should be in the good category

Gio was bad this year. Worst average of his career (3.2) and 0 TD.

You don’t pay a RB top 15 money just for being a decent blocker.

(12-31-2019, 11:45 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Gio was bad this year. Worst average of his career (3.2) and 0 TD.

You don’t pay a RB top 15 money just for being a decent blocker.

Gio was barely used. But he sure is nice to have standing there if Mixon gets hurt, right?

(12-31-2019, 11:47 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Gio was barely used. But he sure is nice to have standing there if Mixon gets hurt, right?

He only had 3 less carries than he did in 2018. That doesn’t explain why his average went from 3.8 to 3.2 and 3 TD to 0.

He just seemed off this year.

(12-30-2019, 12:43 PM)impactplaya Wrote: At the close of the 2019 season  there were some players made great Strides and the 4 I named IMO have made the biggest.
The curious thing is that....all 4 of these players
Are not high or even mid round draft picks.
Let's look at their short resumes

Phillips. 4 INT in less than 100 snaps. Given a high grade
By PFF.

Hopkins..just got a extension. Enough said

Tate. 40 catches. Very reliable 1st down target

Johnson..stout In pass protection in his 2 games
Bengals scored 68 points in the 2 games he played. Definetely a lock on the roster next season.

The thing is. Some of these guys are out playing
1st RD draft picks.
That's a bad and good thing.
Explain to me why these non 1st Rd draft picks
Are escalated their games ?
While others are regressing.
I'm not a fan of Tobin and the scouts
But props for finding them gems
Who can be potential core players ahead

Hopkins was good at the start of the year and markedly declined as the season went on. He was probably an average C most of the year...which is ok.

Tate has potential, but his catch rate needs to improve. Maybe he just gets bad throws? I dont know.

Phillips... yes I'd like to see more. 4 ints is great with how bad our other corners are at intercepting. I think Dennard only has 3 or 4 for his career!

Johnson? Time will tell. I know Steelers fans liked him. But Bengals fans liked Westerman.

Hubbard looks solid like people said.

Mixon could have an MVP caliber year next year IF he does it for 16 games.

Dennard played well in the slot.

Boyd had a good year all things considered.

Vigil is still terrible in spite of us winning the last game. Let him go don’t do a lb Brown again.