(12-31-2019, 04:34 PM)Au165 Wrote: That just isn't realistic to expect. With how easy it is to find a serviceable back spending 15 million a year, which is the new top tier pay scale, would be insane. 

i don't think anyone is suggesting that we pay him near 15 million a year.  He won't get that on the open market so why would he get that here?  

People who think that the talent level at the RB position does not matter don't really understand football.

RBs don't get big contracts because they wear out early, NOT because the talent level does not make a difference in the running game.

All RBs are not equal or "plug and play".

(12-31-2019, 04:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is ridiculous to judge RB talent without looking at the O-line.

How much would you pay Mixon if you were an NFL GM?

I'd just spend on OL in FA and draft another RB in the later rounds.

The Broncos regularly just plug and play different RBs. There's just no point in paying a RB big money unless you have a generational talent. Spend all your money on OL upgrades and hiring an OC with a good scheme instead and you'll be good to go no matter who your RB is.

(12-31-2019, 04:07 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Also a concerning/weird stat about Mixon: He has 0 rushing TDs of 20+ yards in his career. He just simply doesn't have the ability to finish a run for a TD. I don't know if it's a vision thing, or if he doesn't have that final gear, or what. 

This stat is meaningless.  If Mixon had zero runs over 20 yards then you would have a point, but he had six this year (14th in league), and last year he finished second in the league with 11 runs of 20+ yards.  He was also third in the league with 3 runs of 40+ yards in 2018.

(12-31-2019, 04:45 PM)Okeana Wrote: i don't think anyone is suggesting that we pay him near 15 million a year.  He won't get that on the open market so why would he get that here?  

Mixon has made comments that he believes he should be paid like a top back. If he wants to take a deal in the 10-12 range on a short term basis that is one thing, but I don't think he will. 

(12-31-2019, 04:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: People who think that the talent level at the RB position does not matter don't really understand football.

RBs don't get big contracts because they wear out early, NOT because the talent level does not make a difference in the running game.

All RBs are not equal or "plug and play".

They are the easiest position to replace in football, this is a fact and plenty of people who "really understand football" know this. They are also the position in football that you can go from all pro to washed up the quickest, meaning the risk involved is much higher. 

(12-31-2019, 04:08 PM)Okeana Wrote: also keep in mind if we extend AJ green it will have to be for less than his current contract.  His current market value is at around 10 mil according to sport trac so if we can lock him up for 2 years that still gives us 5 mil in cap a year we didn't have

Why would AJ sign that deal when his franchise tag alone is 18mil. He will walk or be a locker room problem if forced to stay without the deal he thinks he deserves. Cut bait and spend his money on other positions of need. We do have plenty of them.

(12-31-2019, 04:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The Broncos regularly just plug and play different RBs. 

It has been 4 years since the Broncos had a winning record or an offense ranked higher than 25th.

And if they don't think the talent level at RB matters why did they use the #12 overall pick on Knowshon Moreno a few years back.

(12-31-2019, 04:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It has been 4 years since the Broncos had a winning record or an offense ranked higher than 25th.

And if they don't think the talent level at RB matters why did they use the #12 overall pick on Knowshon Moreno a few years back.

Moreno was drafted 10 years ago, but it looks like they learned their lesson and went with their undrafted rookie HB Philip Lindsay who has rushed for only 150 less yards than Mixon the last two years on almost 100 less touches.

(12-31-2019, 05:02 PM)Au165 Wrote: Moreno was drafted 10 years ago, but it looks like they learned their lesson and went with their undrafted rookie HB Philip Lindsay who has rushed for only 150 less yards than Mixon the last two years on almost 100 less touches.

denver has the 10th best offensive line in the nfl whats your point.

(12-31-2019, 04:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: People who think that the talent level at the RB position does not matter don't really understand football.

RBs don't get big contracts because they wear out early, NOT because the talent level does not make a difference in the running game.

All RBs are not equal or "plug and play".

The afore mentioned teams who have these highest paid RBs didn't even make the playoffs this year. How many super bowls did Minnesota win with Peterson or Detroit wit Sanders? Mixon can't compare with those two. It is proven that in todays NFL you don't put your investments in RBs if you want to win the ultimate prize.

(12-31-2019, 04:38 PM)jason Wrote: Doesn't the 300 plus carry thing start to take a toll on the player rather quickly?

That's like owning shoes you're afraid to wear because it'll make them wear our quicker. What's the point then?

(12-31-2019, 04:43 PM)Okeana Wrote: This is not a personal attack on you, but it's pretty obvious that you need to rethink your position.  

Do I? When's the last time that a long term contract for a RB has worked out? Here's the RBs making at least $7.5m/yr that aren't on rookie contracts.

Ezekiel Elliott: 301 carries/1,357 yards (4.5 YPC)/12 TD
Todd Gurley: 223 carries/857 yards (3.8 YPC)/12 TD
Le'Veon Bell: 245 carries/789 yards (3.2 YPC)/3 TD
David Johnson: 94 carries/345 yards (3.7 YPC)/2 TD
Devonta Freeman: 184 carries/656 yards (3.6 YPC)/2 TD
Jerick McKinnon: HASN'T PLAYED IN TWO YEARS

That's Ezekiel Elliott (who is running behind 3 All-Pros) with the only good 2019 of the bunch. 

Also note that the only team out of those 6 in the playoffs is the 49ers, whose RB has never taken a snap for them. Instead they had two random dudes named Raheem Mostert and Matt Breida (both undrafted) rush for 772 yards (5.6 YPC) and 623 yards (5.1 YPC), respectively.

(12-31-2019, 05:04 PM)Okeana Wrote: denver has the 10th best offensive line in the nfl whats your point.

Ahh so we are going to play that game. Okay I'll play, Pittsburgh who has a worse run blocking ranking then us, had their three headed monster of day 3 running back picks who basically accounted for the same amount of carries and yards as Mixon.

(12-31-2019, 04:58 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Why would AJ sign that deal when his franchise tag alone is 18mil. He will walk or be a locker room problem if forced to stay without the deal he thinks he deserves. Cut bait and spend his money on other positions of need. We do have plenty of them.

shrug I wouldn't franchise him period its a waste of money and if they do franchise him its in hopes of trading him which can blow up in their face.  At this stage of his career, he simply is worth nowhere near 18 million a year with two years off with an injury regardless of how good he plays its simply dumping money down the tube you could be using to bolster your roster.  If he believes that Joe Burrow is the man many believe he will be then he simply has to take a discount.  

(12-31-2019, 05:02 PM)Au165 Wrote: Moreno was drafted 10 years ago, but it looks like they learned their lesson and went with their undrafted rookie HB Philip Lindsay who has rushed for only 150 less yards than Mixon the last two years on almost 100 less touches.

Actually they "learned their lesson" when they benched their third round pick Royce Freeman because he was averaging over a full yard less per carry behind the same line as Lindsay.

Why would they do that if talent level doesn't matter at the RB position?

The fact that they found a good undrafted RB does not mean any team can plug in a undrafted free agent anymore than Tom Brady being a sixth round pick proves all QBs are "plug and play".

RBs are important!

What would Cleveland's record be this year with Chubb?

Would Minnesota be in the playoffs without Cook?

Would the Saints have had their recent resurgence without the addition of Kamara??

Would we have won ANY games without Mixon???


I agree, Mixon shouldn't be paid as much as some of the top RBs, simply because its too much. However, to disregard the impact of a great running back seems naive.

(12-31-2019, 04:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This stat is meaningless.  If Mixon had zero runs over 20 yards then you would have a point, but he had six this year (14th in league), and last year he finished second in the league with 11 runs of 20+ yards.  He was also third in the league with 3 runs of 40+ yards in 2018.

That stat is very meaningful. He can't finish runs. At no point do you ever feel like he can take it to the house.

Joe Mixon is to running as Alex Erickson is to returning. You think they can do an okay job, but you don't have the same feeling as when you saw Adam Jones/Brandon Wilson back there. That feeling where you think "he could break this for a TD!"

(12-31-2019, 05:16 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That stat is very meaningful. He can't finish runs. At no point do you ever feel like he can take it to the house.

Joe Mixon is to running as Alex Erickson is to returning. You think they can do an okay job, but you don't have the same feeling as when you saw Adam Jones/Brandon Wilson back there. That feeling where you think "he could break this for a TD!"

Lol IDK what you are talking about. I always feel he can take it to the house.... guess I'm stupid! Sometimes I think he should cut instead of punishing the DB... but I also like watching him punish DBs...

(12-31-2019, 03:36 PM)spazz70 Wrote: Get the extension done...   http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001093608/article/mixon-on-possible-deal-i-want-to-be-a-bengal-for-life

Love it. Pay the man.  

Get some good blockers in front of him, draft Burrow and things should be looking up on Offense big time.

That is if we get better playcalling going on.

(12-31-2019, 05:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually they "learned their lesson" when they benched their third round pick Royce Freeman because he was averaging over a full yard less per carry behind the same line as Lindsay.

Why would they do that if talent level doesn't matter at the RB position?

The fact that they found a good undrafted RB does not mean any team can plug in a undrafted free agent anymore than Tom Brady being a sixth round pick proves all QBs are "plug and play".

So a 3rd round pick, again not a big FA signing or early pick? Why would they what, put a mid round pick in at HB? Because it doesn't matter, but it's okay because they found a guy on the street who could run all day.

Rushing yards are a volume stat and people confuse volume with skill. Aaron Jones, Chris Carson, Marlon Mack, Kenyan Drake, Devin Singletary, Phillip Lindsay, Gus Edwards, Raheem Mostart, Matt Brieda, Austin Ekler are all guys with atleast a 100 carries that were drafted in the third or later and had a higher yards per carry than Mixon. You can find backs all day that will get you 4 yards a touch it just comes down to will you force them a workload that makes them a "bell cow" back or not. I'll take my chances drafting a couple late backs and saving the 12-15 million.