(01-14-2020, 10:49 AM)Synric Wrote: There was real growth from Joe Burrow as a player last night. Instead of taking a big hit as usual he actually slid...

Only took until 23...he better get used to those hits, lol. He definitely looks like he has more fire than Andy, which is one major thing Andy lacks.

pic.twitter.com/QpzlY1SuKq

— no context college football (@nocontextcfb) January 14, 2020

I'm obviously in the minority and hope I'm not torn to shreds, but I'm still hesitant to go "all in" on Burrow.

Most of it has to do with the Bengals organization, the crap O-line, possibility that AJ & Mixon could be holding out through training camp, inexperienced coaching staff, etc. I've seen too many "can't miss" QBs fail over the years across the NFL and we simply don't know how he'll respond to everything. It's a coping mechanism from years of being a Bengals fan.

That said, if he performs as well as most of you think he will, he'll be the Lebron of Cincinnati.

JB is good enough that we should be trying to lure a real coaching staff here now not next year.

(01-14-2020, 09:27 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Joe Burrow certainly "checks all the boxes." He's Carson Palmer 2.0.

He’s had a far better college career, and has great mobility and athleticism. He’s nothing like Carson Palmer.

(01-14-2020, 02:07 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's right, I'm asking all of the Joe Burrow antagonists, "What's wrong with him?".

Did you not like the way he hangs in there, against likely the best defense in CFB?

Did you not like the way he changed his strategy to defeat tight coverage and a relentless pass rush?

Did you not like that he set the NCAA TD record?

Do you not like the way he overcomes adversity, and leads his team to play their best game?

Now is you chance, tell us what you don't like about Joe Burrow.  

nothing wrong with joe...

whats wrong is who will be calling his plays and protecting him...  lol

Kid's a baller, no question. Is he good enough to overcome the incompetency of Son of Paul and his cronies? Hopefully, we'll soon find out. I still am wary that they won't draft him. They're THAT stupid.

Two months ago, I was on the Chase Young bandwagon, but I too have finally come around. I still have a few concerns, most of which have been stated in this thread -- 23 years old, could be at peak skill level, one year wonder, product of an innovative system/coordinator, etc. But overall, I don't think we have any other option but to pick him first overall. I know some of you were comparing him to Carson Palmer, but I think he looks much better than Carson ever did in college. I'm perhaps most impressed with his quick decision-making in the pocket. A couple of times he tucked and ran so quickly, I thought it was a designed QB run. But on replay, you realize that it was his second or third option. I think he's got a better arm than most people give him credit for, too.

As for last night's game, I only have two minor criticisms of JB9. First, on the vast majority of the plays, he was only required to read half the field. I think this was intentional (and understandable), however, since he was constantly under pressure from Clemson's defense. Nothing I saw made me think that he can't go through 3-4 progressions. Besides, half the QBs in the NFL today can't, don't or won't, and it doesn't really matter all that much when you can run like he can (see Jackson, Lamar). Second, he made a few throws to receivers that weren't technically open, gunslinger style a la Brett Favre. On a few plays, he threw his receivers open. On others, the receiver simply made a great play. Those throws won't be so easy in the NFL, where the CBs have better closing speed and ball skills. Although AJ Terrell -- the Clemson CB who was roasted by Ja'Marr Chase numerous times and lambasted on the gameday thread last night -- is a legit NFL player and was projected to be drafted in Rds. 2-3 (at least before last night, lol ...).

So I agree wholeheartedly with the majority position -- we'd be stupid not to draft Burrow first overall. But we'd also be stupid not to bring Joe Brady along for the ride if we get the chance. The offensive game plan he ran last night is really the exact scheme we need to run behind our crappy o-line.

(01-14-2020, 11:29 AM)Nately120 Wrote: JB is good enough that we should be trying to lure a real coaching staff here now not next year.

well lots to choose from but not much time to rebuild a staff for the senior bowl

(01-14-2020, 11:37 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: well lots to choose from but not much time to rebuild a staff for the senior bowl

That's why I figure 2020 is going to be watching ZT crash the Ferrari he's been gifted and 2021 will be the real start. 

(01-14-2020, 06:30 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: He didn't play at OSU. 

He isn't an entire offensive line(some say to draft that before taking a QB).

He might be a little too committed to winning and a little uncommitted to buttering up the boss man's ego. 

All I've got. 

I said to focus on OL before taking a guy like Dwayne Haskins last year, but that was because Haskins was not good under pressure.
Burrow is much better feeling pressure, avoiding pressure, and making plays while under pressure than Haskins was (is?).
Plus, the Bengals did go get three new OL last year (Williams, Miller, and Jordan) and found their new C (Hopkins).
They should easily be able to get another 1-2 OL in the draft and another 1-2 in FA to go along with Joe Burrow.

The only thing really anyone can point to now is that Burrow wasn't this elite outside of this year.
Doubters will say this year was a fluke and he'll regress down to normal.

However, those that say that are guessing (hoping?) that happens since there's no evidence to claim it will. It's not like Burrow had a great season then a bad one. He continues to trend upward.

(01-14-2020, 11:58 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I said to focus on OL before taking a guy like Dwayne Haskins last year, but that was because Haskins was not good under pressure.
Burrow is much better feeling pressure, avoiding pressure, and making plays than Haskins was (is?).
Plus, the Bengals did go get three new OL last year (Williams, Miller, and Jordan) and found their new C (Hopkins).
They should easily be able to get another 1-2 OL in the draft and another 1-2 in FA to go along with Joe Burrow.

The only thing really anyone can point to now is that Burrow wasn't this elite outside of this year.
Doubters will say this year was a fluke and he'll regress down to normal.

However, those that say that are guessing (hoping?) that happens since there's no evidence to claim it will. It's not like Burrow had a great season then a bad one. He continues to trend upward.

They actually explained his jump really well last night on the broadcast. Basically Orgeron came in this season and threw down a much larger playbook in front of Joe and “handed him the keys” so to speak.

(01-14-2020, 12:06 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: They actually explained his jump really well last night on the broadcast. Basically Orgeron came in this season and threw down a much larger playbook in front of Joe and “handed him the keys” so to speak.

I knew why too, but not everyone may have heard that or bothered to look it up, especially if they are anti-Burrow.

I, for one, am very excited to see Burrow as a Bengal but I also don't want the Bengals to think all they need is Burrow and they can get back to 8+ wins. They still need to do well in FA and hit on other draft picks (mainly rds 2-4).

(01-14-2020, 02:07 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's right, I'm asking all of the Joe Burrow antagonists, "What's wrong with him?".

Did you not like the way he hangs in there, against likely the best defense in CFB?

Did you not like the way he changed his strategy to defeat tight coverage and a relentless pass rush?

Did you not like that he set the NCAA TD record?

Do you not like the way he overcomes adversity, and leads his team to play their best game?

Now is you chance, tell us what you don't like about Joe Burrow.  

He doesn't like Skyline.

(01-14-2020, 05:26 AM)jason Wrote: If Joe Burrow is so great, where is the Joe Burrow/ Chuck Norris thread?

Nick Vigil had one... Just sayin'.

Without that rat tail, Vigil would've been unthreadworthy.....Definitely not Chuck Norris level thread worthy.

(01-14-2020, 11:37 AM)shanebo Wrote: Two months ago, I was on the Chase Young bandwagon, but I too have finally come around.  I still have a few concerns, most of which have been stated in this thread -- 23 years old, could be at peak skill level, one year wonder, product of an innovative system/coordinator, etc.  But overall, I don't think we have any other option but to pick him first overall.  I know some of you were comparing him to Carson Palmer, but I think he looks much better than Carson ever did in college.  I'm perhaps most impressed with his quick decision-making in the pocket.  A couple of times he tucked and ran so quickly, I thought it was a designed QB run.  But on replay, you realize that it was his second or third option.  I think he's got a better arm than most people give him credit for, too.  

As for last night's game, I only have two minor criticisms of JB9.  First, on the vast majority of the plays, he was only required to read half the field.  I think this was intentional (and understandable), however, since he was constantly under pressure from Clemson's defense.  Nothing I saw made me think that he can't go through 3-4 progressions.  Besides, half the QBs in the NFL today can't, don't or won't, and it doesn't really matter all that much when you can run like he can (see Jackson, Lamar).  Second, he made a few throws to receivers that weren't technically open, gunslinger style a la Brett Favre.  On a few plays, he threw his receivers open.  On others, the receiver simply made a great play.  Those throws won't be so easy in the NFL, where the CBs have better closing speed and ball skills.  Although AJ Terrell -- the Clemson CB who was roasted by Ja'Marr Chase numerous times and lambasted on the gameday thread last night -- is a legit NFL player and was projected to be drafted in Rds. 2-3 (at least before last night, lol ...).

So I agree wholeheartedly with the majority position -- we'd be stupid not to draft Burrow first overall.  But we'd also be stupid not to bring Joe Brady along for the ride if we get the chance.  The offensive game plan he ran last night is really the exact scheme we need to run behind our crappy o-line.

The bolded is the only concern I have about JB. I have been fully aboard the Burrow train for quite awhile now, Some of those balls he throws up are going to get picked in the NFL, but I think he is smart enough to adjust and not go all Winston with it. I actually prefer a QB who makes aggressive mistakes (within reason) to one who is too quick to chuck it out of bounds and give up on plays. I can see some growing pains for Burrow there, but I couldn't be more happy to be in position to get this guy on the team.

(01-14-2020, 06:38 AM)Benton Wrote: Joe seems fine and all... but... we could trade back to mid-first and double second, then drop back again and pick up 8 seconds and two first and a third, then drop back again to take.... something.... then bundle that to jump forward and take Jalen Hurts, plus have the entire fifth round of the draft.

Or... something.

We're bengal fans you're talking about. Burrow could come to the bengals and win for 19 years then have a terrible 20th year and fans would STILL go on and on about how we could've traded back and gotten..... Yup, that's us alright.. 

(01-14-2020, 01:09 PM)grampahol Wrote: We're bengal fans you're talking about. Burrow could come to the bengals and win for 19 years then have a terrible 20th year and fans would STILL go on and on about how we could've traded back and gotten..... Yup, that's us alright.. 

If there is one thing Bengals fans do it's complain about decades of non stop winning.  

(01-14-2020, 01:21 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If there is one thing Bengals fans do it's complain about decades of non stop winning.  

not sure we ever had a chance....

The one thing that may make the Bengals go another direction is the senior bowl. They will be spending time with Justin Hebert. If the Bengals fall in love with him and another team wants to trade up for JB or CY the Bengals may consider the offer if they believe they can still take Hebert if they fall in love with him. The problem I see is that the Steelers tend to end up jumping the Bengals a few spots and select the guy the Bengals covert and that has hurt them over the years.

With that said I would be ok with JB if the scheme ZT uses will allow JB to play at the highest level; otherwise I wouldn't use the pick on JB. You can state all you want about this or that but I have watched way to many skilled players leave here and flourished on other teams and the same can be said for FA the Bengals have brought in as well from other teams.

Scheme that is being used can really improve a player ability. The issue I see is that our coaching staff is still too wet behind the ears to realize they need to modify their scheme to fit the players they have on their roster. I mean it took 8 games for the OL to make the needed changes to improve the running game. That type of change should have been resolve the minute Williams went down with an injury.